Karsa Orlong Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I read the first one. It was passable, in a highly unoriginal way, but I never had any inclination to read the others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted September 25, 2013 Author Share Posted September 25, 2013 Yeah, the film really did tone it down . . . particularly the bit with the 'dogs' and the 'bloodbath at the cornucopia'. How can you have a bloodbath with no blood? Yeah they are pretty brutal, I remember being surprised when reading, just wasn't expecting it after what I had read and seen so far. I read the first one. It was passable, in a highly unoriginal way, but I never had any inclination to read the others Wouldn't say I had a strong inclination but I was interested, and they are so short and easy to read I didn't think they would too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Personally I don't mind it that there's less blood in the film, its absence didn't disturb me much while I watched the film. I'm kind of squisy like that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I believe they had no choice but to cut down the violence in the film, as I think it had a 12A rating. I personally didn't find the relationship side that annoying, as there are many YA books out there which are much worse - I love quite a lot of YA, as you probably know, but if I see 'romance' mentioned, or any suggestion of a love triangle, I run a mile now! At our last YA book group, Andy Robb and Sean Cummings came along, and they were explaining how it's the publishers who push them to add a love triangle. The readers there also said they were sick of them.. as the teens there said, it's unusual enough to have one person like you, let alone two! These are the types of discussions I'd like to see during the YA month, and it's also your chance to come and talk to the authors (and maybe even a publisher) about what you like in YA, and what puts you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 At our last YA book group, Andy Robb and Sean Cummings came along, and they were explaining how it's the publishers who push them to add a love triangle. The readers there also said they were sick of them.. as the teens there said, it's unusual enough to have one person like you, let alone two! These are the types of discussions I'd like to see during the YA month, and it's also your chance to come and talk to the authors (and maybe even a publisher) about what you like in YA, and what puts you off. This doesn't surprise me at all and I would agree with their statement, two people liking you is very rare! I would look for the same thing in a YA as I would in any other novel. An original concept with a great delivery. I am reading quite a few books at the moment, from both my current and next plan (quite bad at sticking to them): Before they are Hanged - Joe Abercrombie Hearts in Atlantis - Stephen King Beyond Lies the Wub - Philip K. Dick (Short Stories) Cabal - Clive Barker The Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandré Dumas (Audio Book) World Without End - Ken Follett (Audio Book) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 This doesn't surprise me at all and I would agree with their statement, two people liking you is very rare! I would look for the same thing in a YA as I would in any other novel. An original concept with a great delivery. I'm guessing it's been this way ever since the whole Twilight-mania thing. Something is successful and so the publishers try to replicate the success by 'borrowing' the ideas. Nobody I know of has ever been involved in a love triangle in real life. I am reading quite a few books at the moment, from both my current and next plan (quite bad at sticking to them): Before they are Hanged - Joe Abercrombie Hearts in Atlantis - Stephen King Beyond Lies the Wub - Philip K. Dick (Short Stories) Cabal - Clive Barker The Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandré Dumas (Audio Book) World Without End - Ken Follett (Audio Book) I hope you enjoy the Abercrombie - he's one of my favourite authors and the First Law trilogy is brilliant. You've already read The Blade Itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 I hope you enjoy the Abercrombie - he's one of my favourite authors and the First Law trilogy is brilliant. You've already read The Blade Itself? Yeah, I reviewed here, also listened to Red Country audio book which was also brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 This doesn't surprise me at all and I would agree with their statement, two people liking you is very rare! I would look for the same thing in a YA as I would in any other novel. An original concept with a great delivery. I am reading quite a few books at the moment, from both my current and next plan (quite bad at sticking to them): Before they are Hanged - Joe Abercrombie Hearts in Atlantis - Stephen King Beyond Lies the Wub - Philip K. Dick (Short Stories) Cabal - Clive Barker The Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandré Dumas (Audio Book) World Without End - Ken Follett (Audio Book) x Quite a few interesting books and authors you listed there! I look forward to see the reviews . x I'm guessing it's been this way ever since the whole Twilight-mania thing. Something is successful and so the publishers try to replicate the success by 'borrowing' the ideas. Nobody I know of has ever been involved in a love triangle in real life. x I haven't been in a love triangle, but I've been in a situation where my ex wanted me back and my friend, now boyfriend, was interested in me (I broke up with my ex, btw, I definitely didn't want him back, but we did go on holidays to my then-friend-now-boyfriend). Someone else (an online friend) was also interested in me but not anymore by this time (but I was still in a bit of a delusion). I thought things over and decided I'd try things with my current boyfriend (then friend), and we're still together . It was a complicated situation but it's all worked out for me in the end! (I can't actually believe there were that many people interested in me now that I think about it, to be honest.. There was another online friend who was interested in me earlier that year, too.). (it all sounds really messed up, the way I've written it all down. Tbh, I find it hard to think back of the times before I was with my current boyfriend. Thinking of my ex and the unhappiness I felt (we were together for a few years) is still a bit difficult, perhaps because I've never told him how much he hurt me.). Anyway, I do agree that love triangles are quite more pronounced in books than they are in-real-life. I don't know anyone who's been in one either. Michelle, I look forward to see what YA month brings . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Yeah, I reviewed here, also listened to Red Country audio book which was also brilliant! Ahh, great review - Glokta is one of my favourite fictional creations ever, and I love Ninefingers too. The First Law trilogy is awesome, and Best Served Cold is even better (or so I think). I didn't enjoy Red Country or The Heroes quite as much, although still thought they were brilliant. I'm glad you enjoyed Red Country - it's nominated for the David Gemmell Legend award, you should go and vote for it! (I've gone for King of Thorns by Mark Lawrence, though). @Athena: Wow, that sounds truly confusing ad heartbreaking. I suppose love triangles are such popular subject matter in books because love messes so many people up in real life. Nice to know you went with your instincts and got your happily-ever-after! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 @Athena: Wow, that sounds truly confusing ad heartbreaking. I suppose love triangles are such popular subject matter in books because love messes so many people up in real life. Nice to know you went with your instincts and got your happily-ever-after! x Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Ahh, great review - Glokta is one of my favourite fictional creations ever, and I love Ninefingers too. The First Law trilogy is awesome, and Best Served Cold is even better (or so I think). I didn't enjoy Red Country or The Heroes quite as much The Heroes is my fave I liked Best Served Cold just about equally, but it's The Heroes that really made me a fan after enjoying First Law but not being 'wowed' by it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 I didn't enjoy Red Country or The Heroes quite as much, although still thought they were brilliant. I'm glad you enjoyed Red Country - it's nominated for the David Gemmell Legend award, you should go and vote for it! (I've gone for King of Thorns by Mark Lawrence, though). I think I have already voted for it Do you know when the results are announced? Still really need to read Gemmell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I think I have already voted for it Do you know when the results are announced? Still really need to read Gemmell! The end of October, I think. I've still never read any Gemmell either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Cabal - Clive Barker Synopsis The nightmare had begun…. Boone knew that there was no place on this earth for him now; no happiness here, not even with Lori. He would let Hell claim him, let Death take him there. But Death itself seemed to shrink from Boone. No wonder, if he had indeed been the monster who had shattered, violated and shredded so many others’ lives. And Decker had shown him the proof – the hellish photographs where the last victims were forever stilled, splayed in the last obscene moment of their torture. Boone’s only refuge now was Midian – that awful, legendary place in which gathered the half-dead, the Nightbreed… Review I'm still not completely sold on Clive Barker, his stories are gruesome, vivid and imaginative but lack any kind of characterisation. Which means although you have these horrible events occurring, enough to make you grimace and wince, you don't really care what the outcome is. But I have yet to read some of his more popular books such as Weaveworld and The Great and Secret Show which I believe are a lot more accessible. Barker subtly attacks peoples attitudes of fear and distrust towards what they do not understand with the Nightbreed apparently been a metaphor for homosexuality. This is certainly a throwback to his earlier work that you'd expect from his Books of Blood. Cabal is a fairly short read and packs a punch, Barker never holds back from graphic events or descriptions. Certainly one of the more bizarre books I've read in recent times, but overall enjoyable but nothing particularly memorable... ...except this quote which he opens a chapter with: The sun rose like a stripper, keeping its glory well covered by cloud till it seemed there'd be no show at all, then casting off its rags one by one. I think there are few authors who could get away with comparing a sunrise to a stripper in way that actually works. Overall 7/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie9 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Cabal - Clive Barker Synopsis The nightmare had begun…. Boone knew that there was no place on this earth for him now; no happiness here, not even with Lori. He would let Hell claim him, let Death take him there. But Death itself seemed to shrink from Boone. No wonder, if he had indeed been the monster who had shattered, violated and shredded so many others’ lives. And Decker had shown him the proof – the hellish photographs where the last victims were forever stilled, splayed in the last obscene moment of their torture. Boone’s only refuge now was Midian – that awful, legendary place in which gathered the half-dead, the Nightbreed… Review I'm still not completely sold on Clive Barker, his stories are gruesome, vivid and imaginative but lack any kind of characterisation. Which means although you have these horrible events occurring, enough to make you grimace and wince, you don't really care what the outcome is. But I have yet to read some of his more popular books such as Weaveworld and The Great and Secret Show which I believe are a lot more accessible. Barker subtly attacks peoples attitudes of fear and distrust towards what they do not understand with the Nightbreed apparently been a metaphor for homosexuality. This is certainly a throwback to his earlier work that you'd expect from his Books of Blood. Cabal is a fairly short read and packs a punch, Barker never holds back from graphic events or descriptions. Certainly one of the more bizarre books I've read in recent times, but overall enjoyable but nothing particularly memorable... ...except this quote which he opens a chapter with: I think there are few authors who could get away with comparing a sunrise to a stripper in way that actually works. Overall 7/10 Clive Barkers Coldheart Canyon was an excellent book, i liked all the characters in it and theres also Hollywood ghosts in it from the 1920s/30s. Definitely worth a read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I'm still not completely sold on Clive Barker, his stories are gruesome, vivid and imaginative but lack any kind of characterisation. Which means although you have these horrible events occurring, enough to make you grimace and wince, you don't really care what the outcome is. I've felt the same about the books of his that I've read, Tim - including Weaveworld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 I've felt the same about the books of his that I've read, Tim - including Weaveworld I have a few more of his I got in a sale, but I won't be buying anymore unless they are exceptional. I think I have Coldheart Canyon, as well as Imajica, Galilee, The Great and Secret Show and Everville. But not Weaveworld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Weaveworld I remember really liking, but that was quite a few years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Before they Are Hanged - Joe Abercrombie Synopsis Bitter and merciless war is coming to the frozen north. It's bloody and dangerous and the Union army, split by politics and hamstrung by incompetence, is utterly unprepared for the slaughter that's coming. Lacking experience, training, and in some cases even weapons the army is scarcely equipped to repel Bethod's scouts, let alone the cream of his forces. In the heat-ravaged south the Gurkish are massing to assault the city of Dagoska, defended by Inquisitor Glokta. The city is braced for the inevitable defeat and massacre to come, preparations are made to make the Gurkish pay for every inch of land . . . but a plot is festering to hand the city to its beseigers without a fight, and the previous Inquisitor of Dagoska vanished without trace. Threatened from within and without the city, Glokta needs answers, and he needs them soon. And to the east a small band of malefactors travel to the edge of the world to reclaim a device from history - a Seed, hidden for generations - with tremendous destructive potential. A device which could put a end to war, to the army of Eaters in the South, to the invasion of Shanka from the North - but only if it can be found, and only if its power can be controlled . . . Review Happy to say that the 2nd book in the First Law trilogy is more of the same that I loved in the first book, but better! The ongoing character development is suberb, if you didn't fall in love with the characters by the end of The Blade Itself, then you certainly will after this. The characters are unique yet believable, cruel yet lovable, larger than life yet grounded to earth. The story never slows or lags as trilogies often do in the middle, it doesn't get bogged down in mysticism or prophecy and it isn't populated heroes and heroines trying to save the world for selfless reasons. Not much more I can say about this that hasn't been said in the previous book. I was happy to find the continuation of the brilliant series didn't dip in quality. Joe Abercrombie led the way to the new 'Grimdark' type of fantasy, and other authors are hurriedly following. Overall 9/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Joe Abercrombie led the way to the new 'Grimdark' type of fantasy, and other authors are hurriedly following. Hmm, interesting. I'd debate that he led the way, tbh - the likes of Cook, Martin and Erikson were there long before him. Abercrombie's riding the wave, though, for sure <<ponders>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Hmm, interesting. I'd debate that he led the way, tbh - the likes of Cook, Martin and Erikson were there long before him. Abercrombie's riding the wave, though, for sure <<ponders>> True, I had thought of them, but Abercrombie's work seems different. I'd call the others a dark form of high fantasy, but maybe i'm wrong, you're the expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I wish I think you could trace this so-called 'grimdark' sub-genre back a lot further than the last few years, if you wanted to, to Stephen Donaldson's first Thomas Covenant book, and probably even further. Abercrombie's certainly taken it into 'heroic fantasy' - whether or not he's the first to do that I don't know, but I think all those authors have been labeled 'grimdark' at one point or another. I've never really liked the label, tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm glad you're still liking Abercrombie - didn't you just love the conclusion to their epic LOTR-style quest? It's hard to say why some people (myself included) think of Abercrombie as 'grimdark' but not Erikson et. al . . . maybe because Abercrombie is taking it to new levels? Maybe because his books are just so full of goddamn bathos and pessimism that there isn't much room for anything else? I agree it's been in existence for a long time (although personally I wouldn't have labelled Martin as belonging to it, despite him having his moments). Maybe you have a point, Tim - 'high' vs. 'low' fantasy - and Abercrombie belongs to 'low' fantasy (even though he has lots of high fantasy elements). I tend to associate 'grimdark' with an emphasis on the everyday, with lots of gritty (and often disgusting/uncomfortable) details about this. Like bodily fluids and flaky skin and sexual acts and death and pain and characters that are seriously and morally flawed/handicapped. Bit hard to explain, but I think there's just something about the atmosphere of Abercrombie that screams 'grim and dark? Oh, yeah, I'm GRIMDARK!' Anyway, glad you enjoyed the book. When are ya reading the next one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 I agree it's been in existence for a long time (although personally I wouldn't have labelled Martin as belonging to it, despite him having his moments). Maybe you have a point, Tim - 'high' vs. 'low' fantasy - and Abercrombie belongs to 'low' fantasy (even though he has lots of high fantasy elements). Glad you think I may have a point... wasn't sure I did! Won't be too long before I read the next one, finishing off a couple of books and reading a Dexter novel, then gonna read Warbreaker before another light read then Last Argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) I'm glad you're still liking Abercrombie - didn't you just love the conclusion to their epic LOTR-style quest? It's hard to say why some people (myself included) think of Abercrombie as 'grimdark' but not Erikson et. al . . . maybe because Abercrombie is taking it to new levels? Maybe because his books are just so full of goddamn bathos and pessimism that there isn't much room for anything else? I agree it's been in existence for a long time (although personally I wouldn't have labelled Martin as belonging to it, despite him having his moments). Maybe you have a point, Tim - 'high' vs. 'low' fantasy - and Abercrombie belongs to 'low' fantasy (even though he has lots of high fantasy elements). I tend to associate 'grimdark' with an emphasis on the everyday, with lots of gritty (and often disgusting/uncomfortable) details about this. Like bodily fluids and flaky skin and sexual acts and death and pain and characters that are seriously and morally flawed/handicapped. Bit hard to explain, but I think there's just something about the atmosphere of Abercrombie that screams 'grim and dark? Oh, yeah, I'm GRIMDARK!' Interesting. I think maybe there are levels of it, with level 1 being at the lighter end (Grimdusk?) into which Erikson maybe fits (although some people seem to find his books unremittingly bleak, which I just don't get). I tend to disagree that Abercrombie is taking it to new levels, though - I think he's just high profile right now and so is being used as the whipping boy along with Mark Lawrence. I think GRRM has far worse things happen in his books than Abercrombie does, or Lawrence for that matter. Shame his second middle name isn't 'Ian' cos then his initials would be perfect By contrast I think Abercrombie always includes some light in the darkness, some hope for his characters, and plenty of humour, even if it is very dark humour. I found this on Mark Lawrence's blog, which is quite amusing, and this on Joe Abercrombie's. Worth a read Edited October 6, 2013 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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