Going to church?

[KEV67]

On 5/24/2025 at 12:48 PM, Anna Faversham said:

Have you ever thought of making a list of all the churches you've been to? You could comment on each and give them marks out of 10! It might flag up the strong contenders.

 

I'm not sure if I mentioned this before but it's important - someone I've known for some years tried what sounded a great independent church. She'd heard that it was attracting loads of new people. I think she said she tried it out and was asked to join - for a fee! Something like that; I've forgotten now. I only remember being astonished at the size of the fee.

I honestly do not know how so many of these churches keep carrying on. I has a friend who was religious, and he gave 10% of his earnings to the church, but surely not many people do that. In Reading there were more churches than pubs. Drinkers generally go to the pub more than once a week. St Mary's, Church of England (continuing) only had about half a dozen regular members, but it was a big building they had to maintain. The Unitarian Church I go to once a month has about a dozen attendees. It is quite a nice, old building. I assume it can be hired out, but I still don't know how these churches keep going.

[KEV67]

I took my son Adrian to the Southgate Community Church in Bury St Edmunds this morning. I thought I was 10 minutes early, but the service started at 10.30, so I was late. The service was very child-oriented. At one point 11 children got onto the stage behind a screen, and they put on a sock puppet show, with 23 sock puppets. They were singing some sort of Country & Western spiritual song. So not very heavy on doctrine or ritual. Adrian slept through the first bit and woke up for the second bit. At another point the pastor asked everyone to talk to someone next to them about the best or worst party they went to. This was after the reading, which was about the woman who bathed Jesus's feet with expensive perfume, which some of the Apostles complained was an inappropriate use of money. This was just before Judas decided to betray Jesus. So, I suppose that party sucked. I am not much of a party person, but eventually my mind went back to a work Christmas party. We were bussed off somewhere and given some fake dollar bills to play in the casino. Later on the manager of Project Engineering was seen lying on his back on the dance floor, trying to push some fake dollar bills into the stocking of a woman from Sales and Marketing, which was pretty funny. The church warders, or whatever their positions, were kind and welcoming. They asked questions about me and Adrian and soon ascertained I was a single parent, relocating into the area. This must have raised other questions, which I am grateful they did not ask. Adrian is actually quite a friendly, little person, who likes meeting people. So, he didn't want to leave. 

Edited June 8 by KEV67

[Anna Faversham]

This sounds like the most positive experience you've had in the churches you've tried out. It's especially good if they cater for young children in their services. I hope you both enjoyed it. I look forward to hearing if you go again.

 

Oh, by the way, when my children were young I used to take a few picture books with me for them to read during the sermons! They only had those books on Sundays so they didn't get fed up of them - it kept them quiet. I decided not to take any toys that hooted or jingled!

[KEV67]

I went to a United Reform Church service in Bury St Edmunds this morning. I left Adrian at home this time, which was probably a good move, as it was a different type of service. Most the congregation was elderly. Sombre hymns, quite a long service. The most amusing part was a mix up in the schedule of hymns. The sermon was quite interesting. The pastor referred to a conversation between Richard Dawkins and a more religious person. Dawkins said any version of religion he would believe in would be complex than any theology he had read. The pastor agreed. This sounded slightly Unitarian to me. Then the pastor related a story. Someone challenged a pastor to give him straight answers to his theological questions. The pastor recommended he go out and look at the sky the next time it rained. The bloke did this, and after an hour he got soaking wet, but was none the wiser. He went back to the pastor, who said that was the point. Then the pastor referred to a theologian called Karl Bach, I think. He wrote more on theology that nearly everybody in 20th Century, according to the pastor. I thought he said Karl Marx at first. I wondered if Karl Marx wrote a lot on theology before switching to politics. Karl Marx was 19th Century, and I wondered whether the pastor was getting his centuries mixed up, because he was getting on a bit. I think it must have been Karl Bach or something similar. I might go back.

 

Edit: not certain, but I think it was Karl Barth.

Karl Barth - Wikipedia

Edited June 15 by KEV67

[poppy]

Your pastor sounds an interesting and quite philosophical minister. Karl Barth's religious beliefs go over my head, I'm afraid. 

[KEV67]

16 minutes ago, poppy said:

Your pastor sounds an interesting and quite philosophical minister. Karl Barth's religious beliefs go over my head, I'm afraid. 

At least you heard of him. According to the pastor, Karl Barth said the angels laughed at him. He'd written so much on theology and the angels thought it was nonsense. 

[poppy]

8 hours ago, KEV67 said:

At least you heard of him. According to the pastor, Karl Barth said the angels laughed at him. He'd written so much on theology and the angels thought it was nonsense. 

 

I hadn't heard of him, Kev, I read your link about him.

 

1 Corinthians 3:19:

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. 

 

[KEV67]

I went to St Peter's Church in Bury St Edmunds this morning, which is a CofE church. I wanted to see if our state religion would comment on the assisted dying bill and the late abortions amendment. They were not mentioned in the sermon, but were in the prayers. The service was a mix. Most the congregation were elderly, although there were some children who went away part way through to do their own thing. There was no organ. Instead there were three old blokes, two of which strummed guitars. The vicar seemed to be some sort of scientist who was concerned with the environment. There was also a church leader who led the prayers. I suspect he was a retired vicar. I thought the service went on too long and I was a bit irritated with it. At one point one of the guitarists switched over to a banjo.

[lunababymoonchild]

I always hated going to church. My mother made us when we were children and I had to be dressed just so. I never, ever understood that. I refused to go again, at the age of 6, and, aside from family events, have never gone back. I am assuming that the churches in England are different to the Church of Scotland, although the wedding ceremony was more or less the same, without bag-pipes. 

[KEV67]

16 hours ago, lunababymoonchild said:

I always hated going to church. My mother made us when we were children and I had to be dressed just so. I never, ever understood that. I refused to go again, at the age of 6, and, aside from family events, have never gone back. I am assuming that the churches in England are different to the Church of Scotland, although the wedding ceremony was more or less the same, without bag-pipes. 

I cannot say about Scotland, but I think they have changed a lot in the thirty or forty years. Some churches are still quite traditional, but many have become very child-oriented. 

[lunababymoonchild]

2 hours ago, KEV67 said:

I cannot say about Scotland, but I think they have changed a lot in the thirty or forty years. Some churches are still quite traditional, but many have become very child-oriented. 

I would hope so. The last contact I had with the Church of Scotland (28 years ago) that particular minister was the same pig-ignorant, bad mannered, selfish, narrow-minded, bigoted, arrogant piece of work that I’ve come to expect from their clergy - I spoke to a neighbour and she said that that particular minister was indeed so afflicted, I had thought it was just me. During that time I encountered a Catholic priest who, young though he was, was extremely warm and understanding (we’re not Catholic, it’s a long story). The contrast was astonishing. I will never attend the Church of Scotland again. Not considering Catholicism either.

[Anna Faversham]

I am so looking forward to you saying, "This is it! I've found the one that suits us both."       Not easy, is it?

 

Are you keeping a chart with headings such as "Good for children," and "Sound theology" and "Interesting Sermon" and "Great hymns"? And you can mark them out of 10. Good fun - perhaps????

 

Short cut: Ask God to let you know which one suits!

 

 

 

[KEV67]

On 6/24/2025 at 4:46 PM, Anna Faversham said:

I am so looking forward to you saying, "This is it! I've found the one that suits us both."       Not easy, is it?

 

Are you keeping a chart with headings such as "Good for children," and "Sound theology" and "Interesting Sermon" and "Great hymns"? And you can mark them out of 10. Good fun - perhaps????

 

Short cut: Ask God to let you know which one suits!

 

 

 

I think the Southgate Community Church is a winner for Adrian. The United Reform Church might be alright for me, but I am not sure if there is an evening service. There's a Presbyterian Church in Bury St Edmunds.  In England the Presbyterian Church united with the Congregational Church to become the United Reformed Church, so this Presbyterian church must be Scots or Northern Irish. Might mean they're hardcore. Perhaps I should check them out.

[Anna Faversham]

Getting there, Kev, and I suppose taking Adrian to his favourite sometimes will be appreciated.

[KEV67]

Actually, a lot of churches are very child-oriented these days, but the church I thought handled children best was a Greek Orthodox church I went to in Reading. I went to the service by mistake, because it was an Anglican church, which they hired. The priest did his thing and the children just played. Their parents were about, so they did not misbehave too badly. The problem was I could not understand any of it, because it was all in Greek. I decided it was not Latin. It did not sound like Polish. Later I decided it must have been Greek. I wrote about it on a Latin forum, because I had been trying to learn Latin, and the priest replied. He said they were hiring the church until they could build their own.

[KEV67]

I took Adrian back to the Southgate Community Church. Adrian slept for the first hour. Then he woke up, got bored and started making a noise. I unbuckled him from his stroller, but he was still making a lot of noise and wanted to go wandering. One of the church people advised me to take him to an office where there were some toys. The service was being streamed in there. It was a pretty long service. One of the pastors said he'd been three weeks in Scotland, where it hadn't rained a drop. He thanked the Lord for the beauty of Scotland. I am not going to disagree. I once cycled from Land's End to John o' Groats, and I was impressed with Scotland's beauty too.

There was a second pastor. He said he was 88. I thought he was in good shape for 88. He said he served his military conscription in Cyprus. He said there was a Cypriot Bishop or similar, whose name was something like Marikos, which means happy in Greek, only he was the most miserable looking man you'd ever see. I wondered if this was the Cypriot bishop who was behind the Cypriot independence movement that assassinated British servicemen. I will have to check. 

The sermon was about the Service on the Mount, or the Beatitudes. There was eight of them, so it took some time to get through them. The pastors were adamant that meek did not mean wimpy, but power under control. I am not convinced.

Edit: the archbishop's name was Makarios, and he was indeed involved in terrorist activities against British rule in the 60s. So that's a gold star to me I think.

Edited June 29 by KEV67

[KEV67]

I noticed a Seventh Day Adventist church in Bury St Edmunds. It was in a small, green building near the railway station. In Reading the church that was the nearest to my flat was a Seventh Day Adventist church, but I never went to it, because I would have been the only white person. The only time I saw white people there was when the funeral directors arrived with a hearse. Seventh Day Adventists hold their services on Saturday. That makes sense to me. If Jews celebrate Sabbath on Saturday then why do Christians celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday? I have often wondered, but not enough to find out. I had also heard the Seventh Day Adventists fasted twice a week. This morning I sauntered down the church (with Little Adrian) to check out whether their congregation was all black. They looked mostly white from what I could see. Two women were handing out books on vegetarianism. I had forgotten they were vegetarians. One of them asked me if I wanted to do a health check. I said ok. I read a bit of the book on vegetarianism, which seemed fair enough. Then I took the health check. The questions were on exercise, eating meat, eating fibre, alcohol intake, sleeping patterns, spirituality, smoking, weight. I did badly on eating meat, drinking alcohol and not exercising enough. I am actually not bad at exercise, but I have not been doing much lately because of the heat. I was given my results. My actual age is 58; my health age was 66, but I had a potential health age of 42. It is the first time I have been told my health age was worse than my real age. I took part in some food science tests when I was 40. I was told I had a vascular age of an 18-year-old. I was hoping I could get off with the young, graduate student who was doing the tests, since we were so close in vascular age.

[Madeleine]

I always thought that Christians had Sunday as the day of rest, as it was the 7th day of the week and that was when the Lord rested after creating everything, though as the days of the week didn't exist back then, not as we know them now, I wonder how they worked out what the 7th day was?

[KEV67]

2 hours ago, Madeleine said:

I always thought that Christians had Sunday as the day of rest, as it was the 7th day of the week and that was when the Lord rested after creating everything, though as the days of the week didn't exist back then, not as we know them now, I wonder how they worked out what the 7th day was?

That's what I thought too, but why did Christians think the seventh day was Sunday, and not Saturday, like the Jews? It has always puzzled me.

[Madeleine]

Good point!

[Anna Faversham]

I think Christians take the day of rest on a Sunday as that was when Jesus rose from the dead and proved there's life after death and so they make Sunday the day to go to church. I can't be certain, maybe I'll Google it...

[KEV67]

I attended the local United Reform church again on Sunday. Nothing very interesting happened during the service, but afterwards I joined them for coffee and biscuits. I told one of them I went to school in this town. I lived here from 7 to 12 years of age. The person I was talking to was involved in education and was a member of the N.U.T. He remembered my head master, Mr Snell, and two of my form teachers, Mr Leigh and Mr Webb. 

[KEV67]

I went to the Unitarian meeting this afternoon. We had an American from Kansas taking the service. Only he was not so much a Unitarian as a Mnenonite. He kept talking about Mnenonites, Anabaptists and, occasionally, the Amish. They were all very commutarian, and it was quite interesting. Thing is, Unitarians are not really Christian anymore. They're deists, agnostics, spiritual but sceptical or pantheists. The pastor is into LGBTQIA+ politics, but that's pretty much his poison as far as I'm concerned. We seemed to have a problem with the hymns. I missed the number of the second hymn, started singing the hymn I thought was next, but stopped because I could not hear anyone else singing it. But I could not make out which words they were actually singing. So I gave up on that hymn. We had problems with the last hymn too. No one seemed very sure how it was supposed to go. I made a stab at it. I thought it was quite a good hymn with a jaunty tune, assuming I was singing it right.

Edited August 3 by KEV67

[Anna Faversham]

🤣

 

I had to laugh at your last post - I could just imagine it. So how many marks out of 10 do these churches get?

[KEV67]

It is difficult to grade them. It is not often I hear a sermon and feel I was made to think something new or different. In fact the last time was at a United Reform Church in Reading. The passage from the Bible was John the Baptist sending his disciples to Jesus to ask him if he was the expected Messiah. Jesus replied that people were being healed and receiving the good word. The pastor made out that John the Baptist was hoping, Jesus being the Messiah, that he would be sprung from his dungeon. I had not considered that angle. When I heard the vicar and the Church of England (Continuing) talk on the same passage, he said what I would have expected him to say. That of course John the Baptist knew Jesus was the Messiah. He was just giving him a chance to confirm it. 

 

I attended the URC church in Bury St Edmunds again. I reckoned there was definitely one person younger than me in the congregation, unless she dyed her hair. There were about three others who were about the same age, but could have been younger. It was a different pastor again. This one seemed to have a problem identifying God as male. He often referred to God as she or her. At one point he also said something about spiritual connection with people of all faiths and none, and referred to the Buddhist concept of mindfulness. He said people at oranges wrongly, because most people would pick off another segment before finishing the previous segment. Apparently you should concentrate on the segment you are eating. He also related a story about a grumpy old widower, who, nearing death, charged his friends with finding God. The grumpy, old widower was being looked after by a Jewish woman who did his shopping for him, cooked his meals and other domestic tasks. The grumpy, old man started taking her for granted and even started abusing her. Since the Jewish woman was not being paid, she was doing all this work for free, the story did not sound very likely to me. Thinking about it, my mother did help her neighbours when they were getting very old and infirm. She even wiped the elderly neighbour's arse for him. However, he was a nice old man. We were given a copy of the The Lord's Prayer. The one we were asked to read was almost the opposite of the version I learnt in assembly. The archaic language was stripped out, but also anything that hinted at poetry. So instead of "Give us this day our daily bread," it would be something like "Enable us to access our day-to-day living requirements." We were also given a strip of paper each. Towards the end we were invited to write a prayer. I had trouble. Do I write a prayer about Gaza, or something else in the news, or something personal, such as my uncle's recovery from a stroke, or something more generally applicable? Couldn't think of anything in the end.

Edited August 25 by KEV67