Karsa Orlong Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 As always seems to be the way when I start reading a historical novel set in Tudor times, I start looking at other books about the period. I am drawn, for the umpteenth time, to Alison Weir's The Six Wives of Henry VIII, and The Lady in the Tower: The Fall of Anne Boleyn. Also quite drawn to her book about Lancaster and York: The War of the Roses, for no other reason than curiosity. I've no doubt there are many, many other highly-rated non-fiction books on these subjects, but I'm thinking these would be a good place to start. I can see my TBR pile growing again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Think I mentioned this earlier in the year, but I have finally ordered this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 So in my usual way I went to Waterstone's at lunchtime with the intention of getting one of the history books mentioned above, and ended up buying two The Lady in the Tower: The Fall of Anne Boleyn by Alison Weir and Winter King: The Dawn of Tudor England by Thomas Penn I blame Hilary Mantel for the former and Penn's own (excellent) BBC documentary for the latter. On the plus side, it was buy one get one half price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Pixie Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hi Steve. Like I said, academic books don`t count towards your TBR total and can be safely bought. Ooh look, a kitty. Ahem. Was getting me to post here just a ploy to have someone with an out of control TBR list to make yours look better ? Ooh, not sure about the grammar there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hi Steve. Like I said, academic books don`t count towards your TBR total and can be safely bought. Good, that means my TBR list can stay as it is Thank you! Ooh look, a kitty. Ahem. Was getting me to post here just a ploy to have someone with an out of control TBR list to make yours look better ? Ooh, not sure about the grammar there... No no, you'll probably find yourself in good company on here with your mountains of unread books Welcome, btw - good to see you post at last! And get that cat out of my thread! Pixie won't like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Pixie Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hee, how is Pixie these days ? I wonder if having a TBR list which I can count to the nearest 100 is a problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hee, how is Pixie these days ? Still mad She is good at chasing the foxes out of the garden, though I wonder if having a TBR list which I can count to the nearest 100 is a problem.... Again, not on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Pixie Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Still mad She is good at chasing the foxes out of the garden, though Goodness, she`s brave ! Hope your Mum`s okay - not that she probably spends much time gallivanting after foxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Goodness, she`s brave ! Hope your Mum`s okay - not that she probably spends much time gallivanting after foxes. She might, for all I know Yeah, she's okay, thanks Re Pixie and the foxes, I heard an awful noise the other night, opened the back door and turned the security light on, and she'd cornered one by the fence. It was half again as big as her and it was the one looking scared I think she was a bit peeved that my opening the door gave it the chance to jump the fence and get away. That was one very grumpy cat afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Pixie Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 She might, for all I know Yeah, she's okay, thanks Re Pixie and the foxes, I heard an awful noise the other night, opened the back door and turned the security light on, and she'd cornered one by the fence. It was half again as big as her and it was the one looking scared I think she was a bit peeved that my opening the door gave it the chance to jump the fence and get away. That was one very grumpy cat afterwards She`ll be dragging one through the catflap next. Must go - broadband keeps disappearing every couple of mins and it`s making posting an adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I read Alison Weir's (The Six Wives of Henry VIII) book years ago and could kick myself now for giving it away because I'd love to re-read (and then I could lob it your way). It was gruesome though .. I particularly remember reading about how it took several attempts to cut off the head of some poor old elderly dowager or the other .. felt quite ill after that. I think it was quite a common problem and that's why Anne called for a French swordsman. Anyway, even so, it was a rattling good read. I love reading about the Tudors too .. I hardly know anything about the other dynasties. I don't normally like blood and guts so I've no idea why I'm drawn to them .. they were fantastic schemers though .. you'd never be able to suspend disbelief enough if it was a work of fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 I read Alison Weir's (The Six Wives of Henry VIII) book years ago and could kick myself now for giving it away because I'd love to re-read (and then I could lob it your way). It was gruesome though .. I particularly remember reading about how it took several attempts to cut off the head of some poor old elderly dowager or the other .. felt quite ill after that. I think it was quite a common problem and that's why Anne called for a French swordsman. Anyway, even so, it was a rattling good read. It'd have been so much easier if they had used a lightsaber They did have quite a few of Alison Weir's non-fiction books in Waterstone's today, including The Six Wives of Henry VIII, but it wasn't in good enough condition for me to want to pay full price for it. I'll hunt around for it Aaaaaargh! What's happened to my font?? Nooooooo! I love reading about the Tudors too .. I hardly know anything about the other dynasties. I don't normally like blood and guts so I've no idea why I'm drawn to them .. they were fantastic schemers though .. you'd never be able to suspend disbelief enough if it was a work of fiction. Ain't that the truth I've read a fair amount of Tudor-based fiction (mainly crime/mystery stuff) but these'll be the first factual ones I've read. I was kind of keen to start with Alison Weir's book about The War of the Roses, as a lead in, but I'm thinking I'm going to be quite keen to read The Lady in the Tower after I finish Bring Up the Bodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Sorry ..my fonts always corrupt other peoples .. that's why I stopped writing in blue. Did you watch The Tudors Steve? .. load of old twaddle really and full of inaccuracies but strangely compelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Did you watch The Tudors Steve? .. load of old twaddle really and full of inaccuracies but strangely compelling I've got the first couple of seasons on Blu-ray, but I've only ever watched the first four episodes. I guess it didn't really make much of an impression when I tried to watch it the first time Do you think it's worth me giving it another go then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I've got the first couple of seasons on Blu-ray, but I've only ever watched the first four episodes. I guess it didn't really make much of an impression when I tried to watch it the first time Do you think it's worth me giving it another go then? I didn't think much of series one but loved series two which was mostly down to Natalie Dormer's absolutely storming performance as Anne Boleyn .. she completely steals it. I sort of lost interest again afterwards but I would recommend giving it another go .. if just to see her (though I am far from saying that Jonathan Rhys Meyers is not worth looking at ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 I didn't think much of series one but loved series two which was mostly down to Natalie Dormer's absolutely storming performance as Anne Boleyn .. she completely steals it. I sort of lost interest again afterwards but I would recommend giving it another go .. if just to see her (though I am far from saying that Jonathan Rhys Meyers is not worth looking at ) She's great in Game of Thrones, too. Hmm, shall have to dig the boxed set out again. Thanks Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You will like it I'm sure .. and if not, well, it'll only be one more rubbish recommendation of mine to add to the pile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Book #32: Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel From Amazon: Winner of the Man Booker Prize 2012, the 2012 Costa Book of the Year and shortlisted for the 2013 Women’s Prize for Fiction. With this historic win for ‘Bring Up the Bodies’, Hilary Mantel becomes the first British author and the first woman to be awarded two Man Booker Prizes (her first was for ‘Wolf Hall’ in 2009). By 1535 Thomas Cromwell is Chief Minister to Henry VIII, his fortunes having risen with those of Anne Boleyn, the king’s new wife. But Anne has failed to give the king an heir, and Cromwell watches as Henry falls for plain Jane Seymour. Cromwell must find a solution that will satisfy Henry, safeguard the nation and secure his own career. But neither minister nor king will emerge unscathed from the bloody theatre of Anne’s final days. An astounding literary accomplishment, ‘Bring Up the Bodies’ is the story of this most terrifying moment of history, by one of our greatest living novelists. Thoughts: Considering its predecessor was called Wolf Hall (the family home of the Seymours), it is not until the start of this sequel that we are actually taken there. Picking up a couple of months after the climax of the first book, which chronicled the rise of both Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell, we now come to Anne's downfall, whilst Cromwell appears like a man riding the crest of a wave, the surfboard bucking beneath his feet, one misstep threatening to tumble him into the jaws of the waiting sharks. He's made a lot of enemies, Cromwell, in his climb to become Henry's chief minister and advisor. Anne, meanwhile, three years as queen, has failed to provide a son and heir to the throne and - as rumours begin to circulate of the King's deficiencies in the bedroom being to blame, and of Anne's infidelities - suddenly Henry's eyes come to rest on young Jane Seymour (who, at this stage, I am assuming was fresh from her role in Live and Let Die, and was far too young to have considered Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman). Well, the writing is on the wall, isn't it? And, of course, it falls to Cromwell once again to facilitate the King's desires, knowing well enough the treacherous waters into which they will take him. I suppose, in the wrong hands, telling a story to which everyone knows the outcome could be something of a poisoned chalice, a turgid drudge to a predictable conclusion. In the right hands, though, knowing what the outcome will be can lead to heightened tension: you know what's going to happen but you are so involved that you can only look on, helpless, as the characters fulfil their roles in the tragedy. Mantel's are most definitely the right hands. Perhaps her cleverest, neatest and best trick is to relate the events in the present tense. In doing so, she got me right inside Cromwell's head, seeing this vivid, dangerous world through his eyes. Much as he seems to be riding that wave, I felt as if I was riding his thoughts, watching him cajole and manipulate and fight for every inch of ground he could gain. I know some people struggled with Wolf Hall but, for me, Mantel's prose is immaculate. It demands concentration, for sure (a slight distraction can lead to having to re-read a paragraph or page to grab back the thrust of a thought or scene), but it carried me from conversation to memory, flitting with Cromwell's thoughts to another half-formed memory, but always brought me back to the crux of the matter, the point of the scene. It is also riddled with caustic wit and profound observation. I frequently laughed out loud as I read: Cromwell is the master of the put-down, even if he internalises it. One such moment that stuck in my mind occurred early on, when Cromwell is visited by an enemy, the Bishop of Winchester, Stephen Gardiner: 'In practice, Stephen, upwards, downwards -- it hardly matters. "Where the word of a king is, there is power, and who may say to him, what doest thou?"' 'Henry is not a tyrant,' Gardiner says stiffly. 'I rebut any notion that his regime is not lawfully grounded. If I were king, I would wish my authority to be legitimate wholly, to be respected universally and, if questioned, stoutly defended. Would not you?' 'If I were king . . . ' He was going to say, if I were king I'd defenestrate you. Gardiner says, 'Why are you looking out of the window?' Mantel's style is not the most descriptive - you'll rarely find detailed descriptions of rooms, buildings, attire etc - and yet the time and place seems to come alive in her words. The characterisation is pin-sharp, if seen through a Cromwell-tinted lens. Everything is seen through his eyes and, whether or not he agrees with him, he will do what he has to do to meet the needs of his King. You fear for him at the same time as standing agog at the audacity of the actions he takes. Bring Up the Bodies is a triumph from the first page to the last, imo. For me to read a book that contains literally not one piece of action, and yet to come away thinking that the pacing was phenomenal, never dragging for an instant, shows to me just how good a writer she is. It is completely absorbing, immersive, exciting and scary. I've been feeling recently that I have over-scored a few books this year, and given a few too many 10s. This has kind of proved it, because it deserves to stand above all the other books in my rankings. It is far and away the best book I've read so far this year. 10/10 Edited June 13, 2013 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willoyd Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 As a someone who absolutely loved Wolf Hall, all I can say is "Wow!". if ever there was a must read, this looks like it. I think I'll wait for the school holidays though - It sounds like Mantel again demands your full attention! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yays! So happy to see such wonderful comments. These books have to be among my top.....dunno what number, but in the top tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 As a someone who absolutely loved Wolf Hall, all I can say is "Wow!". if ever there was a must read, this looks like it. I think I'll wait for the school holidays though - It sounds like Mantel again demands your full attention! If you loved Wolf Hall I'm sure you will enjoy it. I found it was one of those books I didn't want to put down, and then kept looking at it when I did so, thinking 'I really want to read some more' Yays! So happy to see such wonderful comments. These books have to be among my top.....dunno what number, but in the top tier. Yep, mine too Can't wait for the final part, it should be cracking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 I think I'm going to read two books at once I'm a man, I don't multi-task! But I'm very keen to read The Lady in the Tower, whilst Bring Up the Bodies is still fresh in my memory, so I'm going to dip into that one now and then, whilst continuing with my planned fiction books. It's between carrying on with the Tudor theme and reading Prophecy (S. J. Parris) or something completely different, James Ellroy's The Black Dahlia Plan update: Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel - finished 13/06/13 Emperor: The Gates of Rome by Conn Iggulden Prophecy by S. J. Parris The Mauritius Command by Patrick O'Brian The Black Dahlia by James Ellroy The Odyssey by Homer Something by David Gemmell, to be decided (probably either Hero in the Shadows or The First Chronicles of Druss the Legend) A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge The Technician by Neal Asher Pompeii by Robert Harris The Silver Spike by Glen Cook The one no-one saw coming: To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Pixie Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Book #32: Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel - suddenly Henry's eyes come to rest on young Jane Seymour (who, at this stage, I am assuming was fresh from her role in Live and Let Die, and was far too young to have considered Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman). Boom boom ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Book #33: Prophecy by S. J. Parris From Amazon: Autumn, 1583. Under Elizabeth’s rule, loyalty is bought with blood … An astrological phenomenon heralds the dawn of a new age and Queen Elizabeth’s throne is in peril. As Mary Stuart’s supporters scheme to usurp the rightful monarch, a young maid of honour is murdered, occult symbols carved into her flesh. The Queen’s spymaster, Francis Walsingham, calls on maverick agent Giordano Bruno to infiltrate the plotters and secure the evidence that will condemn them to death. Bruno is cunning, but so are his enemies. His identity could be exposed at any moment. The proof he seeks is within his grasp. But the young woman’s murder could point to an even more sinister truth … Thoughts: I've been sitting here for about ten minutes trying to think what to write Suffice to say, reading another Tudor period book straight after Bring Up the Bodies was probably not such a great idea And Prophecy is not such a great book - it's not awful, either, it's just rather average. That's why I couldn't help posting the image above - you know when a publisher comes out with that sort of nonsense about a book that they realise it's perhaps not quite as good as they're making out. I've read a fair number of historical murder/mystery/thrillers and I am quite a fan of the sub-genre. I read S. J. Parris's first 'Giordano Bruno' novel, Heresy, a few months ago and pretty much all of my issues with that book are repeated here, apart from one notable one: Giordano Bruno himself. Okay, so he was a real person, but - in this book - he is one of the most incompetent and ineffective agents you can imagine. He stumbles about from one dangerous situation to another, is handed clues on a plate (rather than by actual investigation), allows vital evidence and even suspects to escape, for no better reason than because the book would be much shorter if he didn't do so. For almost the whole book he worries that he is being followed, so every time he goes outside Parris repeats his feelings of being watched. And yet, despite this feeling he has, he still ducks into dark alleys. Hmm, I wonder what's going to happen. D'oh! It gets tiresome very quickly. And he is a worryingly two-dimensional character. There is no hint of humour or depth about him. His internal monologues are also repetitive; he worries about this, he worries about that, then a few pages later he worries about them all over again. It's not that I think S. J. Parris (or, to give her her real name, Stephanie Jane Merritt) is a poor writer (she's doing a damned sight better than me at it, after all!), but I didn't feel there was any verve or style to the writing, the sort of turn of phrase or characterisation or excitement that picks you up and sweeps you along for the ride. Unlike the first book, and very much like Hilary Mantel, she decided to write this one in the present tense. It should, in theory, provide a lot of momentum, driving the story forward. However, instead of conveying the sense of time and place through character and action, she does it through page after page of monotonous description. The book frequently gets bogged down in this mire, which is a shame, and it failed to excite me on any level because any sense of tension flies out of the window. I think I probably read this at completely the wrong time, straight after such a masterpiece, but I looked back at my comments on Heresy and realised that nothing had changed. You would, perhaps, expect there to be an improvement and evolution in both the characters and writing between the first and second books but I didn't really get that feeling. I did like that it was set in London this time, though. 4/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) Plan update: Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel - finished 13/06/13 Emperor: The Gates of Rome by Conn Iggulden Prophecy by S. J. Parris - finished 18/06/13 The Mauritius Command by Patrick O'Brian The Black Dahlia by James Ellroy The Odyssey by Homer Something by David Gemmell, to be decided (probably either Hero in the Shadows or The First Chronicles of Druss the Legend) A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge The Technician by Neal Asher Pompeii by Robert Harris The Silver Spike by Glen Cook - started 20/06/13 The one no-one saw coming: To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee Making a start on Glen Cook's The Silver Spike today. "He got mad. I got mad right back. We yelled and screamed some. He threw things because he wasn't in good enough shape to run me down. I stomped his wineskin to death and watched its blood trickle across the floor." I do love the way he writes Edited June 20, 2013 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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