sirinrob

thanks @ weave both of your variants would work Ausonius, thanks for the reply!

can someone do me a favour and tell me what the first sentence in their English translation of the Intoduction says. I'm stuck on trying to decide what das Wenige means. TIA

No ive read 'The Jane Eyre affair' so LiaGB is next step - got waylaid with Hesse amongst other things. Comments will be forthcoming....

Was trying to remember who else might have 'The Glasspearl game ' by Hermann Hesse on their TBR - realised it was you. I've just finished it and have written a (very long) review of it here

Yes I had noted the irony re Kastalien (spelt the German right this time ) and the order. The poetry fits Knecht tho. Yes I had noted that Beichtvater is strictly Father Confessor, but given the period the story is set felt confessor was better and more encompassing, given the twist.

Well im going to dive into LiaGB this weekend - so as per usual you will get my commnents - that is if they are welcome....

chicken with rice ( seems there is theme here)

continuation..... Turning to the rest of the work, consideration of the poems and the 3 'Lebensl

continuation..... From Knecht's point of view, human realtionships are important. As an orphan, he feels the need to form meaningful relationships. even though he has a heated debate with Plinio, this leads to an abiding relationship. within the order, close relationships are discouraged, formality rules. He does however form a realtionship with the Alexander, which however in the end gets tested to breaking point. Education features strongly in this work. The Order persue intellectual knowledge for its own sake, which Knecht comes to realise is sterile and one sided. He attempts to incorporate ideas from outside the Order into his own study. Early in the work he defends the Order, but does listen to outside ideas, such as the teachings of the Elder Brother and Pater Jacobus. As the work progresses he feels the need to pass on his ideas to young students and finds the teaching of the elite school more and more burdensome. his frustration in the situation is a major factor in his decision to leave the Order. In his confronation with Alexander, it becomes readily apparent that the Order does not like change, Knecht's ideas represent change and this leads to the heated exchange between him and Alexander. Knecht has a sense of selfawareness early on, but this gets quelled under the influence of the order. The time he spends with the Elder Brother reawakens this and develops it. Once he starts studying the Glasperlenspiel this awareness diminishes ,but is never extinguished. Once he becomes Magister Ludi, his self awareness is rekindled and leads to the inner struggle which results in him leaving the Order. Knecht's appreciation of nature, mirror's that of Hesse's own interest. Hesse became later in life a watercolourist concentrating on landscapes. Within the work the depictions of nature are treated sympathetically , especially near the end. History features strongly in the work under various guises. Mention of the conversation with Pater Jacobus has already been made. From an autobiographical point of view Hesse had left Germany just before the first World War - he was one of the minority of Germans who at the time had little enthusiam for the War or the Kaiser. This feeling of 'apartness' pervades the work. The history of the Order seems to have been fossilsed and probably reflects Hesse's own views on the Weimar Republic and the Nazi regime. One of the references in the work which at first seems a bit puzzling is to the 'Feuillitonische Epoch'. My understanding of this is a reference to the Weimar Republic, during which glossy magazines and cheap massed produced light literature predominated. Through this work, Hesse seems to be making a protest against the debasement of Art in germany. He himself was a victim of the Nazi's cultural ideology, his works being deemed 'undesirable', especially after 'Narzi

continuation..... As noted previously, one of the main themes within the novel is philosophy. This has two facets: Western and Eastern. Dealing with the Western first there is a strong influence from the work of Nietzsche, but Hesse does not take on all of Nietzsche's concepts uncritically. In his treatment of Tegularis, I detected a less than sympathetic view of some of Nietzche's ideas. In the novel Knecht remains a friend of Tegularis , but keeps him at arms length. The other influences from Western philosophy I detected are Hegel, in particular his philosophy of history - that gets explored in the conversation with Pater Jacobus and Kant which is personified in the attitude of Alexander the head of the order. Hesse adds his own ideas as well. The influence of Eastern philosophy, given Hesse's prediliction to Indian philosophy and Buddhism, is not unexpected. I was initially perplexed by the mention of the I Ching ( I Ging in German original). Then I recalled that Hesse had received treatment from Karl Jung and became one of his acquantices. Now Jung wrote a foreword to the translation of the I Ching into German by Richard Wilhelm, this being considered by many to be the definitive translation. So given Hesse's interest in Eastern philosophy and esotericism, it seems likely that he became aware of the I Ching through Jung. The inclusion of the I ching and Taoism within the novel adds an interesting layer. The description of the Elder brother consulting the I ching using the sticks is an accurate description of the traditional ritual. The Eastern philosophical theme pervades the book. One point at which this influence is keenly felt is the heated conversation Knecht has with erstwhile friend Carlo Ferromonte. Death as a theme is used at key moments within the novel. The death of Thomas van Trave affects Knecht deeply, aside from the immediate consequences for the province. The whole episode shows the Order in a bad light, with the exile of Bertram. The death of the Old Music Master leads to more self awareness on Knecht's part. This episode is sensitively handled and in my view is one the more haunting episodes in the novel. Knecht's own death forms a haunting end to the novel, in particular its affect on Tito. Love as a theme plays an important role within the novel. Hesse decided to present it on a platonic level, eschewing the homoerotic elements he had used in 'Narzi

The spelling I gave for the province is as per the German original i.e with a 'K', but in English it would be as you said with a 'C'. The allusion to Castalia as a patron of poetry had eluded me, so thanks for pointing that out.

The comments below are based on the original edition in German published in Switzerland in 1943, copyright renewed by Suhrkamp in 1971 This was the last novel written by Hermann Hesse. It was written between 1930 and 1942. Hesse's original plan was to have written a series of interconnected short stories, but he abandoned this and eventually produced a novel with a set of poems and 3 short stories attached. The novel is on its most basic level is a Romansbild of one Josef Knecht. It is in Hesse's own words an attempt at a biography of Knecht's life and works related by an historian of the community of which Knecht was a part of for much of his life. This community is located in Kastilia and is devoted to the pursuit of knowledge with scant regard to the trials and tribulations of life outside the province. The chief occupation within Kastilia is the 'Glassbead game', of which Knecht becomes the master. Details of how the game is played are scant, but the concepts behind it are laid down. The significance of these concepts will be covered later. Eventually Knecht leaves the province and dies shortly after. The synopsis I've given may well sound sparse, but does sum up the overall plot. What Hesse explores within that framework is where the interest lies. He explores several themes, some of which he had detailed within 'Narzissus und Goldmund', but are expanded upon here, and others which are introduced within this work. The main themes I have identified are: Philosophy, death, love, theology, human relationships, education, self awareness, nature, history, politics, trust and friendship. Each of these themes is explored in depth within the novel and the themes are interwoven. The style used is scholarly, deliberately so. On the surface this lends the work a dry aspect, but Hesse being the commensurate wordsmith adds much irony, satire and wordplay. Most , if not all, of the characters are based on real persona that Hesse knew. The head of Kastilia , Thomas van Trave is based on Thomas Mann (Thomas Mann came from L

couldn't agree more- I attempted to read this in German and gave up as its ,to put it bluntly, garbage.

My book was 'Jude the Obscure' - Thomas Hardy. For various reasons I have always had an aversion to reading Hardy, but this changed my outlook and Hardy has become one of my favourite authors.

Totally agree BJ - I was making sure that we were thinking along the same lines and from the response seems we are:mrgreen:

I've read Gravity's Rainbow - yes it is a dense novel, but worth the effort. The key to reading it seems to be getting through the first 200 pages, by which time all of the main characters have been introduced and the scene set.

Yes your point about languages within languages was an aspect I was considering. Your extension to prose is imo valid too. When you talk about understanding, are you considering just the intention of the author or including any underlying themes?

Just a thought, but perhaps the understanding/appreciation of poetry is akin to a translation exercise? So some people find this interesting/facile and others boring/tedious perhaps? Thoughts anyone.

just over halfway through 'Das Glasperlenspiel' by Hermann Hesse - excellent read.

sorry about that BJ was meant in jest:)

just to add BJ that is a little OTT - Joycean even

Well Vanwa the shorter is a good halfway house - used to use the concise but with the literature I read these days it falls short. The shorter seems to cover my needs well - just 2 volumes... I have the same situation with German, use the DUW and the attendant volumes and it works....

that as well - supraneologism to boot.

I read Tolkein when I was a lot younger and enjoyed it. These days I avoid, not for the writing per se, but the attendant baggage. Kafka is one of those authors you get or dont get. I always read him in German ( original language), that way the meaning comes across more readily. Yes he is dark, but also a very capable wordsmith imho. His short stories seem to be more accessible, but still dark. One that will always stick in my mind is 'In der Strafkolonie' (In the Penal Colony). That might be a better way into Kafka, rather than the novels.

The advice I've always been given is to find a place where the temperature is in the range 10 - 12 ⁰C, hence why a cellar below the house was ideal. Kitchens tend to fluctuate wildly which is not ideal. HTH