Poppy's Paperbacks 2011

[frankie]

I'm sure you'll love it Frankie, it's an adorable little story and not typical of Woolf's writing at all ... it's almost like she's saying 'I'm going to let you off a bit here and just give you a proper little story that won't tie your head in a knot' I've since read 'To the Lighthouse' and I loved it, but it was a bit like being in the middle of a tornado, at times there was calm and I understood everything and at others I was clinging on by the tips of my fingers, whilst random words and sentences flashed past me. It was exhilarating though.

 

Well, I went to the library yesterday to take back some books and was browsing for material for my thesis, and it just so happens that my thesis has to do with literature, literary studies, and English lit... so... I spent a lot of time on that very convenient section of the library and couldn't help but notice all the Woolf books.. And I remembered Flush, and then went to search for it, and found it I read the first couple of pages and it seemed like an enjoyable read! Too bad you've now informed me that it's an easy Woolf to read, I was beginning to think she isn't as difficult as people make her out to be Your post reminded me that I've also read To the Lighthouse, and that while it was interesting, I was completely baffled by the structure of the novel at times. And I completely agree with everything you said about the novel. When I was reading it, I sometimes had to stop and ask myself, 'have I been smoking pot or why is this so bloody difficult and trippy?!'.

 

Reading and commenting on your reading blog the other day has apparently had a huge effect on me: Besides Flush, I borrowed Woolf's A Room of One's Own (and was looking for other Woolf related literature but didn't find any of the ones you mentioned) and The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas.

 

Bless you, you are sweet to say so sometimes I think I could do something like that and then I remember that most of the time, my brain resembles mashed potato and I can't remember the book I read the week before.

 

Well, if you are being truthful here and your brain indeed resembles a mashed potato, you can certainly fake your way through it

 

I love books about that particular time, and memoirs by writers are particularly fascinating. I want to be them! Life is so unfair .. why am I not sitting in Paris cafe's discussing Hemingway and Fitzgerald?

 

Exactly! Couldn't agree with you more. I'm also jealous that you native English speakers have so many great authors to claim as your own, and eventhough you are not living in the same period and society as they, at least you have the language and culture in common. I'm not dissing Finnish authors, but when I think about the Bloomsbury Group, the Beat Generation, the Lost Generation, etc., I feel this overwhelming envy. I couldn't name one single 'Generation' of Finnish authors if my life depended on it!

 

You and me both! She has become quite an obsession with me and so has Sylvia Plath, I am on the lookout for books to do with or by either. And I notice that you need no help from me to buy Virginia related books as you've just bought one by Lytton Strachey .. the man she almost married!! I haven't yet dipped into any books by any of the other members of the Bloomsbury group .. except for some letters by Leonard but I know it's just a question of time. Much is made in Virginia's biographies about the genius of Lytton .. it'll be good to hear what you make of his book on Queen Vic.

 

I'll keep an eye out for books by or about them for you! Not that there's much of a chance over here, in the promised land of Finnish language I had no idea Lytton Strachey had anything to do with Woolf The coincidence blows my mind! However, I thought Woolf was gay? I wonder where I got that idea from.

 

... hehe .. good pun! I think you'll enjoy it Frankie, not only the boarding school side of things but also because it explores things like depression, teenage angst, eating disorders and that kind of thing and I know that's something you also have an interest in. I for all the world thought it was going to be a book about a kangaroo.. but I was only disappointed for about five seconds.

 

You got that right, it seems to have all the right elements to make and keep me interested. There was a copy of the book in the library yesterday, but as I was already holding on to 10 books, I thought I'd have to leave it there for now and come back to it later. It's a heavy book after all. Yes, as much as we like kangaroos, we do like other type of books as well

 

 

Thank you so much it makes me very happy to think that you think so. I however, would tell them to turn straight around and go and see what you and Kylie are reading ... they could have no better example.

 

I agree with what you said about Kylie, and I always marvel at the books she's purchased, and she's known to have a huge influence on my wishlist on a very regular basis. However, it's been a while since she's written a review about a book she's read, so I haven't had a chance to call her a literary brainiac! I know she's busy, but I wouldn't mind having a chance to read about her literary adventures more often. I know she'll probably be reading these lines since she likes her daily dosage of books discussed by poppyshake, so I've tried to select my works accordingly, and diplomatically

[Janet]

I still can't figure out what poppyshake meant. Initially I read the phrase 'hippo's fgs' wrong, I though poppyshake was talking about hippo fags, and I was like... let them be fags, what's fun in life if one can't enjoy themselves in the company of others, no matter if they're the 'right' gender'...

I can't see that this has been answered but if it has, I'm sorry! Assuming you're not kidding - FGS means 'for goodness sake' or 'for God's sake' (I prefer the former but it's a matter of choice! ) - so "we're not hippos, for goodness sake' - I.e they've done with wallowing and are going to get on with it.

 

Hope that's still the case with you both, Poppyshake.

[poppyshake]

I can't see that this has been answered but if it has, I'm sorry! Assuming you're not kidding - FGS means 'for goodness sake' or 'for God's sake' (I prefer the former but it's a matter of choice! ) - so "we're not hippos, for goodness sake' - I.e they've done with wallowing and are going to get on with it.

 

Hope that's still the case with you both, Poppyshake.

Thanks Janet we're both fine and things are looking up Thanks also for clearing up what I meant by FGS ... sorry Frankie that I didn't answer you before, for some reason I only noticed your last post and answered it. When I looked back there were two others that I hadn't seen (oh my ... should have gone to SpecSavers ) I will do so now

[poppyshake]

She might be fascinating, I won't argue against that, but personally I find her very intimidating, way too intellectual for me, and all that. Any thoughts on that? I mean, I don't want you to now tell me that I'm smart enough to read her, I mean that is she approachable? Oh you know what I mean And yes this is not written by her, because it's about her, but I just have this fear of anything that's to do with Virginia Woolf. Which reminds me that there's a play called Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf on the Rory reading challenge. I guess the playwright didn't know about me, otherwise he would've felt it unnecessary to write a play about it. He could've just looked me up and say 'oh her.

HeHe She is approachable but you have to be in the mood. I found it easier after I had read about her because it gave me a greater understanding of the way she works. I've only read 'To the Lighthouse' and a little bit of 'Mrs Dalloway' (which I'm currently reading) so I'm hardly an expert but all I'll say is they require a great deal of concentration. It's all very 'stream of conciousness' and there's no plot to speak of, you're dropped into the midst of a certain group of people at a certain time and you are given hardly any back story .. you're just eavesdropping on their thoughts and feelings (which are randomly whizzing about.) I don't think she'd be too intellectual for you by any means, if I can read her anyone can, but it depends on how you are with books where not much happens and where you're required to think until your brain aches (I'm not selling it am I ... but actually I'm finding reading her very enjoyable although I don't pretend to understand more than half she writes.) Don't force yourself to read her, when the time is right to pick up one of her stories then your brain will let you know that it's up for it and I daresay you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

I'm not counting 'Flush' cos it's as unlike anything else she's written as can be.

[poppyshake]

That was really funny! The kind of humour that I like and that was a huge part of the attraction of the book! Need to re-read, most definitely.

Yes me too, I keep meaning to because I loved everything about it.

I still can't figure out what poppyshake meant. Initially I read the phrase 'hippo's fgs' wrong, I though poppyshake was talking about hippo fags, and I was like... let them be fags, what's fun in life if one can't enjoy themselves in the company of others, no matter if they're the 'right' gender'

:lol: what are you like??? :lol: I'm sorry I didn't clarify this earlier Frankie, I wouldn't be prejudiced against hippo fags .. whatever floats your boat and all that. Janet is right, I meant 'for goodness sake' but oh my, what with figs and now fags, all this text speak gets one in a right old pickle

And poppyshake, I was really sorry to hear about the news with Alan! You'll cope though. Like someone (sorry, can't remember who) said, this can be taken as an opportunity to assess one's life and what they want to do with the rest of their life. I'm sure something will come up soon, you guys just hang in there.

Thanks Frankie we're fine now, I was a bit wobbly to begin with but you soon learn to get a grip. I hope, in the long run, that it'll prove to be the best thing that could have happened. Certainly things are looking up

It's so funny you should mention this book, and you poppyshake to have just read it, I borrowed it from the library just one week ago, I thought I'd just get a Hemingway book, but it was one that was autobiographical, and happened to be one that on some of my reading challenges! I'm so happy that Shakespeare & Co was mentioned, I love it how all these people were connected and liked each other. Like Kylie said, she has a book of letters, which is on my wishlist, but Kylie also talked about a memoirs kind of book about setting up the shop that is Shakespeare & Co, by the same name, and I just wanted to underline that, because your reply to Kylie made me think that you might've missed it. Just wanted to make sure.

Yes I love all those literary connections too, weren't they lucky to have lived in such an age? I'm pretty sure I made a note of Sylvia's memoirs as well as the letters but I'm off to Goodreads now to make sure I've got it listed. Thanks for pointing it out to me Frankie .. as you know, it's the kind of thing I love.

 

[poppyshake]

Uh oh... I've only read The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison (I've already commented the book on your thread before but noticed this new thing that bothered me and wanted to ask) and I thought it wasn't the easiest read. Not because of the harrowing subject matter, but I remember me sometimes being confused by stuff. It was ages ago since I read it so I might remember it all wrong. However, the thing that makes me wonder: Is Beloved a tough read? I have it on TBR pile.

Beloved is not an easy read, she has her own poetic, disjointed style which I struggled with to begin with but it's all about finding the rhythm of her writing, once you've done that (and it will only take you a chapter or so) then it's pretty plain sailing and so worth the effort. Just don't give up on it early, stick with it and you'll be rewarded with a brilliant, brilliant story.

You're welcome, although I feel bad about sending you the book, I just knew it that you would eventually want to have the unabridged version and I felt like I was committing a fellony by sending you the abridged one Although I did tell you that it is the version that Ted's been editing and well... raping.

 

I know what you mean about one's own diaries seeming so childlike, compared to anything that Plath writes. I haven't even read her journals myself yet, but I've read a biography about her (wholeheartedly recommend it, it's by Ronald Hayman, sorry if I've already recommended it!) and have read a poem or two and I just know that her journal will make me want to burn my own diaries in shame! But even then, her passion and way with words is something that makes one want to do better. It doesn't leave one fully crippled, swearing to lay off all the pens and Word documents. She's an inspiration.

Please don't feel bad about sending the book .. I loved it, and whichever way around it was I would have always wanted to read the other (because the omissions speak volumes about Ted .. and if I had read the unedited version I would still have wanted to see which bits he felt .. or they felt ... should be left out.)

You are in for a treat when you do get around to reading her journals, she hides nothing. She can be quite frightening in her intensity but she was such a fragile soul too.

Thanks for the biography recommendation .. I'll put it on my wishlist

[frankie]

:mrgreen:

 

Sorry, I had to!

[poppyshake]

Well, I went to the library yesterday to take back some books and was browsing for material for my thesis, and it just so happens that my thesis has to do with literature, literary studies, and English lit... so... I spent a lot of time on that very convenient section of the library and couldn't help but notice all the Woolf books.. And I remembered Flush, and then went to search for it, and found it I read the first couple of pages and it seemed like an enjoyable read! Too bad you've now informed me that it's an easy Woolf to read, I was beginning to think she isn't as difficult as people make her out to be Your post reminded me that I've also read To the Lighthouse, and that while it was interesting, I was completely baffled by the structure of the novel at times. And I completely agree with everything you said about the novel. When I was reading it, I sometimes had to stop and ask myself, 'have I been smoking pot or why is this so bloody difficult and trippy?!'.

 

Reading and commenting on your reading blog the other day has apparently had a huge effect on me: Besides Flush, I borrowed Woolf's A Room of One's Own (and was looking for other Woolf related literature but didn't find any of the ones you mentioned) and The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas.

Oh my, I should have read this before posting earlier .. you have gone and done it now .. you have borrowed a Woolf book When I started 'Flush' I was thinking 'well this is not at all difficult .. so much for Virginia Woolf .. I'm not afraid of her' and then I read 'To the Lighthouse' and realised what everyone else means when they talk about her work. It's a bit like going to a party and hearing all the random thoughts that pass through everyone's head, someone may be asking you to pass them a sausage roll but at the same time they're thinking about your shoes and that has somehow reminded them that the grocer short changed them this morning and then they're worrying about whether little Rosie's head cold has got any worse and whether infact the doctor should have been called and the corner of the wallpaper that's not quite stuck down is all the while intruding on their notice. If all this was apparent when you entered the room it would be so disorientating .. and the novels give you this feeling of not being quite 'in the picture' but I love the fact that a lot of what she writes is bang on the nail and also that she includes humour and is beautifully descriptive. I couldn't take one of her books to the beach though, my brain would explode. I needed utter quiet when I read it .. and I had to chew over some of her sentences/paragraphs until they made sense.

I can't wait to hear what you make of 'A Room of One's Own' .. I know some men take issue with it because it's perceived as being anti-men.

I'll keep an eye out for books by or about them for you! Not that there's much of a chance over here, in the promised land of Finnish language I had no idea Lytton Strachey had anything to do with Woolf The coincidence blows my mind! However, I thought Woolf was gay? I wonder where I got that idea from.

Well in essence you are correct .. both as far as Virginia is concerned and Lytton. Lytton was openly (or as openly as the time allowed) homosexual and Virginia, though married to Leonard, never had a sexual relationship with her husband (or at least if they did it was brief and never repeated) .. but she did embark on a love affair with the writer Vita Sackville West which was said to have been sexual (though reports differ as to how sexual it actually was.) Oh it's complicated isn't it, I guess because of the times they lived in, a lot of people were in the closet and would use their marriages as a smokescreen. However, Virginia and Leonard were pretty devoted to each other in all other ways. You will have to read a biog .. the one by Hermione Lee is said to be outstanding.

 

I agree with what you said about Kylie, and I always marvel at the books she's purchased, and she's known to have a huge influence on my wishlist on a very regular basis. However, it's been a while since she's written a review about a book she's read, so I haven't had a chance to call her a literary brainiac! I know she's busy, but I wouldn't mind having a chance to read about her literary adventures more often. I know she'll probably be reading these lines since she likes her daily dosage of books discussed by poppyshake, so I've tried to select my works accordingly, and diplomatically

I love your subtlety Both you and Kylie are a huge inspiration to me and I don't even have to wait for your reviews, I see how many stars you give a book on Goodreads and if it's four or more then I know it's a corker. I can't moan about anyone being behind with their reviews because I am so behind with mine, I've got at least eight to review and some of them are stinkers .. not as in they're terrible but in that they're complicated. One of them is 'To the Lighthouse' so I think I'll just say .. 'see my previous conversations' and have done with

Kylie is very busy these days and is set to be more so I think what with her amazing new job and all. She has promised not to forsake us though and I'm sure it would be very good practice if she posted her reviews and spent time editing them etc (I don't think I've succeeded in being any more subtle than you Frankie )

[poppyshake]

:mrgreen:

Sorry, I had to!

 

:lol: :lol:

 

I love him .. sooo cute

[frankie]

I can't see that this has been answered but if it has, I'm sorry!Assuming you're not kidding - FGS means 'for goodness sake' or 'for God's sake' (I prefer the former but it's a matter of choice!) - so "we're not hippos, for goodness sake' - I.e they've done with wallowing and are going to get on with it.

 

I wasn't kidding, I had no idea what fgs was. I should've realised it was an acronym and figured it out from there, but it didn't even cross my mind. So is 'we're not hippos' a common phrase? I tried googling it but it didn't lead me to any phrase/idiom websites. And thank you Janet for clearing it up! The things one learns on this forum... are numerous!

 

Thanks also for clearing up what I meant by FGS ... sorry Frankie that I didn't answer you before, for some reason I only noticed your last post and answered it. When I looked back there were two others that I hadn't seen (oh my ... should have gone to SpecSavers) I will do so now

 

That's quite alright, I just thought you found my posts rather overwhelming and just decided to tackle the last one In my defense, it had been a while since I'd last taken a good look at your blog and had loads to say. As always.

 

She is approachable but you have to be in the mood. I found it easier after I had read about her because it gave me a greater understanding of the way she works. I've only read 'To the Lighthouse' and a little bit of 'Mrs Dalloway' (which I'm currently reading) so I'm hardly an expert but all I'll say is they require a great deal of concentration. It's all very 'stream of conciousness' and there's no plot to speak of, you're dropped into the midst of a certain group of people at a certain time and you are given hardly any back story .. you're just eavesdropping on their thoughts and feelings (which are randomly whizzing about.) I don't think she'd be too intellectual for you by any means, if I can read her anyone can, but it depends on how you are with books where not much happens and where you're required to think until your brain aches (I'm not selling it am I ... but actually I'm finding reading her very enjoyable although I don't pretend to understand more than half she writes.) Don't force yourself to read her, when the time is right to pick up one of her stories then your brain will let you know that it's up for it and I daresay you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

I'm not counting 'Flush' cos it's as unlike anything else she's written as can be.

 

Yes, I suppose she's one of those authors you have to be in the mood for, and you have to have your brain about you. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what you make of Mrs Dalloway, which I now remember that I also have on my bookshelf and should look into. Especially since I have Michael Cunningham's The Hours waiting to be read as well (and have now looked up your goodreads account and you also have it on your TBR). I think I'll try and read them one after the other to make the best of The Hours. I just googled it and it won the 1999 Pulitzer Prize, I had no idea!

 

I do confess that most of the time I'm a very plot-driven reader, but if I really try to make an effort and know beforehand what I'm up against, I can read other sorts of stuff as well. I also need to pace my reading, because if I just read and read in order to finish the book, nothing will really sink in. I guess I'm too much in the habit of finishing x amount of books per year to reach my goal for the goodreads reading challenge that I won't allow myself to take time with the novels that demand a deeper concentration and more time. Which is naughty, naughty!

 

One thing is for sure: Thanks to you, I'm not nearly as afraid of Virginia Woolf as I was before!

 

what are you like??? I'm sorry I didn't clarify this earlier Frankie, I wouldn't be prejudiced against hippo fags .. whatever floats your boat and all that. Janet is right, I meant 'for goodness sake' but oh my, what with figs and now fags, all this text speak gets one in a right old pickle

 

It's getting windy, there's a huge sigh of relief from all the gay hippos around the world!

 

And now pickle will surely come in and tell you to leave her be

 

Thanks Frankie we're fine now, I was a bit wobbly to begin with but you soon learn to get a grip. I hope, in the long run, that it'll prove to be the best thing that could have happened. Certainly things are looking up

 

I'm very happy to hear things are looking up for you two!

Beloved is not an easy read, she has her own poetic, disjointed style which I struggled with to begin with but it's all about finding the rhythm of her writing, once you've done that (and it will only take you a chapter or so) then it's pretty plain sailing and so worth the effort. Just don't give up on it early, stick with it and you'll be rewarded with a brilliant, brilliant story.

 

If it'll take me only a chapter or two, I can deal with that, yes. Thank you for the reassurance!

[frankie]

Please don't feel bad about sending the book .. I loved it, and whichever way around it was I would have always wanted to read the other (because the omissions speak volumes about Ted .. and if I had read the unedited version I would still have wanted to see which bits he felt .. or they felt ... should be left out.)

You are in for a treat when you do get around to reading her journals, she hides nothing. She can be quite frightening in her intensity but she was such a fragile soul too.

 

Since you've convinced me that you would've wanted to read both of the editions no matter which one you read first, I rest at peace. I agree, the omissions will speak volumes, and I would also like to know what kind of stuff Ted initially left out of the journals, but I don't think I would have the stamina to read both of the books.

 

I know I'll just love the book, I borrowed the abridged version from the library some years ago and started reading it, and liked what I read, but then I learnt that there was an unabridged version and took my copy back and ordered the longer version on adlibris. My adlibris account tells me that I've received the copy on February, 2008, so I'm quite ashamed that I've left it unread for so long! But it's one of those books that I know I'll love, and I have this very stupid tendency that I want to save those kinds of reads til 'last'. Like eating all the not-so-good candy first and leave the best candy til last. What if I should die before I get to the book!!

 

 

It's a bit like going to a party and hearing all the random thoughts that pass through everyone's head, someone may be asking you to pass them a sausage roll but at the same time they're thinking about your shoes and that has somehow reminded them that the grocer short changed them this morning and then they're worrying about whether little Rosie's head cold has got any worse and whether infact the doctor should have been called and the corner of the wallpaper that's not quite stuck down is all the while intruding on their notice. If all this was apparent when you entered the room it would be so disorientating .. and the novels give you this feeling of not being quite 'in the picture' but I love the fact that a lot of what she writes is bang on the nail and also that she includes humour and is beautifully descriptive. I couldn't take one of her books to the beach though, my brain would explode. I needed utter quiet when I read it .. and I had to chew over some of her sentences/paragraphs until they made sense.

I can't wait to hear what you make of 'A Room of One's Own' .. I know some men take issue with it because it's perceived as being anti-men.

 

That's a very apt description poppyshake, you lost me somewhere in the middle! You could out-write Woolf anyday!

 

I took another look at your goodreads account and noticed that you haven't read A Room of One's Own yet, so I'll have to see what you make of it yourself. Feminism is always a touchy subject, some consider it anti-men, some consider it pro-equality (which should be the case) and all that sort of stuff. I borrowed it mostly because I want to read about how Woolf perceives the process of writing and how one should have their own space to do it. Maybe I remember the idea of the book wrong

 

And by the by, as I was looking at your goodreads account (I searched 'Woolf' from your shelves), I noticed the title The Letters of Vita Sackville-West and Virginia Woolf by Louise DeSalvo, and now have to add that to my wishlist as well. And holy heck, I then wikied her, and apparently she's quite the VW scholar (literally, she is), and noticed this title: Virginia Woolf: The Impact of Childhood Sexual Abuse on Her Life and Work. I had no idea I read one of the reviews on it on amazon and here's an excerpt:

 

”This is that kind of fantasy bridge book that allows true readers insight into an author without first having to go and study critical theory for ten years to even get through most books about great authors! I am an avid, organic, non-academic reader and this book was excellent for me. I think it also rescues and gives Virginia Woolf to all of us, as a writer, a woman, a child, a victim of circumstance. As opposed to mad, she was one incredible artist who adapted extremely well in such an isolated and shaming time.”

 

Adding it to my wishlist....

 

Well in essence you are correct .. both as far as Virginia is concerned and Lytton. Lytton was openly (or as openly as the time allowed) homosexual and Virginia, though married to Leonard, never had a sexual relationship with her husband (or at least if they did it was brief and never repeated) .. but she did embark on a love affair with the writer Vita Sackville West which was said to have been sexual (though reports differ as to how sexual it actually was.) Oh it's complicated isn't it, I guess because of the times they lived in, a lot of people were in the closet and would use their marriages as a smokescreen. However, Virginia and Leonard were pretty devoted to each other in all other ways. You will have to read a biog .. the one by Hermione Lee is said to be outstanding.

 

Ah, that explains it. 'Good old days' weren't always that good, were they. Even today the whole of the society isn't very accepting, so we can only imagine what it was like back then. Adding Hermione Lee to my wishlist....

 

I think we'd better lay off the subject of V. W. Because I now have added about 10 books about/by her on my wishlist and I can't take much more I'd rather we talk about someone we've both read every book by!

 

I love your subtlety Both you and Kylie are a huge inspiration to me and I don't even have to wait for your reviews, I see how many stars you give a book on Goodreads and if it's four or more then I know it's a corker. I can't moan about anyone being behind with their reviews because I am so behind with mine, I've got at least eight to review and some of them are stinkers .. not as in they're terrible but in that they're complicated. One of them is 'To the Lighthouse' so I think I'll just say .. 'see my previous conversations' and have done with

Kylie is very busy these days and is set to be more so I think what with her amazing new job and all. She has promised not to forsake us though and I'm sure it would be very good practice if she posted her reviews and spent time editing them etc (I don't think I've succeeded in being any more subtle than you Frankie )

 

Awww thank you for your kind words! I can't really fault Kylie, either, because I'm about 30 reviews behind myself... I'm looking forward to reading the ones you still have to write, especially To the Lighthouse And no, you can't use our conversation as a review!!

[Janet]

I wasn't kidding, I had no idea what fgs was. I should've realised it was an acronym and figured it out from there, but it didn't even cross my mind. So is 'we're not hippos' a common phrase? I tried googling it but it didn't lead me to any phrase/idiom websites. And thank you Janet for clearing it up! The things one learns on this forum... are numerous!

The phrase is "wallowing in self-pity" - people say that about someone (or themselves) who is feeling sorry for themselves. The hippo bit is sort-of implied (because hippos wallow) but doesn't actually appear in the saying, so you wouldn't find anything searching "we're not hippos", but if you Google "wallow(ing) in self-pity" you should find some results.

[frankie]

The phrase is "wallowing in self-pity" - people say that about someone (or themselves) who is feeling sorry for themselves. The hippo bit is sort-of implied (because hippos wallow) but doesn't actually appear in the saying, so you wouldn't find anything searching "we're not hippos", but if you Google "wallow(ing) in self-pity" you should find some results.

 

Ah, that explains it all! I knew the 'wallow in self-pity' phrase, but I only knew the verb 'wallow' in this context. I googled 'to wallow' and here's what I found: "Roll about or lie relaxed in mud or water, esp. to keep cool, avoid biting insects, or spread scent". See, I had only come across with the verb in figurative context, I didn't know that it also has literal meanings. I didn't know that hippos wallow Now I do! Thanks again

[Janet]

No problem. We Brits do have some odd (and some frankly silly!) phrases!

[poppyshake]

I wasn't kidding, I had no idea what fgs was. I should've realised it was an acronym and figured it out from there, but it didn't even cross my mind. So is 'we're not hippos' a common phrase? I tried googling it but it didn't lead me to any phrase/idiom websites. And thank you Janet for clearing it up! The things one learns on this forum... are numerous!

I'm so glad Janet is here to sort out the mess I'm getting myself into ... actually I could do with Janet in everyday life because often people give me that look like they've no idea what I'm talking about. She's explained it so well that I won't explain it further because if I did I'd be bound to confuse you ... I think I'm probably setting your English language study back years Sorry Frankie

Yes, I suppose she's one of those authors you have to be in the mood for, and you have to have your brain about you. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what you make of Mrs Dalloway, which I now remember that I also have on my bookshelf and should look into. Especially since I have Michael Cunningham's The Hours waiting to be read as well (and have now looked up your goodreads account and you also have it on your TBR). I think I'll try and read them one after the other to make the best of The Hours. I just googled it and it won the 1999 Pulitzer Prize, I had no idea!

 

I do confess that most of the time I'm a very plot-driven reader, but if I really try to make an effort and know beforehand what I'm up against, I can read other sorts of stuff as well. I also need to pace my reading, because if I just read and read in order to finish the book, nothing will really sink in. I guess I'm too much in the habit of finishing x amount of books per year to reach my goal for the goodreads reading challenge that I won't allow myself to take time with the novels that demand a deeper concentration and more time. Which is naughty, naughty!

 

One thing is for sure: Thanks to you, I'm not nearly as afraid of Virginia Woolf as I was before!

Well I'm glad about that though I'm not so sure that I won't end up being terrified of her. 'Mrs Dalloway' is going well but there have been bits where I could have done with a trail of breadcrumbs to get me back to where I was 'understanding things' I'm looking forward to reading 'The Hours' too .. I saw the film ages ago before I had read anything about or by Woolf and enjoyed it though I was a bit confused (no change there then!) After I've read it I'll try and watch it again, see if I can understand it better. Perhaps it's a good idea to read all my Woolf books one after the other, whilst I'm in the right mindset .. mind you that would probably loosen even more of my screws.

I know what you mean about pacing your reading, I tend to want to rush through mine too and it's hard to tackle books like Virginia's when you're in a hurry. Goodreads keeps reproaching me with the fact that I'm 24% behind on my 2011 reading target which is unhelpful. I find myself making excuses and telling it that I've been a bit mopey lately and out of sorts. It doesn't listen though ... it has no heart!

 

And now pickle will surely come in and tell you to leave her be

Yes sorry Pickle for taking your name in vain.

[poppyshake]

Since you've convinced me that you would've wanted to read both of the editions no matter which one you read first, I rest at peace. I agree, the omissions will speak volumes, and I would also like to know what kind of stuff Ted initially left out of the journals, but I don't think I would have the stamina to read both of the books.

I know I'll just love the book, I borrowed the abridged version from the library some years ago and started reading it, and liked what I read, but then I learnt that there was an unabridged version and took my copy back and ordered the longer version on adlibris. My adlibris account tells me that I've received the copy on February, 2008, so I'm quite ashamed that I've left it unread for so long! But it's one of those books that I know I'll love, and I have this very stupid tendency that I want to save those kinds of reads til 'last'. Like eating all the not-so-good candy first and leave the best candy til last. What if I should die before I get to the book!!

Oh I do that too, partly because I want to save special books for special times (but when on earth is that?) and partly because I'm terrified I won't like them and it will crush me ... I want to like them so badly. I didn't even mean to read Sylvia's journals when I did, I picked the book up and just thought I'd have a little look and then bang, I couldn't put it down (actually I looked at the pics first and then wanted to know the story behind them.) And touching on what we spoke about earlier it was actually easy to go slowly when reading Sylvia's journals because her use of language seemed to put a spell on me, I re-read passages over and over, not because I didn't understand them but because I was just so blown away by them.

I took another look at your goodreads account and noticed that you haven't read A Room of One's Own yet, so I'll have to see what you make of it yourself. Feminism is always a touchy subject, some consider it anti-men, some consider it pro-equality (which should be the case) and all that sort of stuff. I borrowed it mostly because I want to read about how Woolf perceives the process of writing and how one should have their own space to do it. Maybe I remember the idea of the book wrong

No, you're absolutely correct and of course it was so much easier for men to write, Virginia still lived in an age where daughters often weren't given the same opportunities as sons, especially where education was concerned. She was taught at home mostly by her parents (this is something the Mitford girls also had to contend with and Jane Austen too of course .. and this sentence from 'Persuasion' shows how much it rankled her ... "Yes, yes, if you please, no reference to examples in books. Men have had every advantage of us in telling their own story. Education has been theirs in so much higher a degree; the pen has been in their hands. I will not allow books to prove anything.") and it makes you marvel all the more at their brilliance when you think about how much they were left to shift for themselves. It must have taken a lot of determination and discipline (good job they hadn't yet invented the Xbox )

And by the by, as I was looking at your goodreads account (I searched 'Woolf' from your shelves), I noticed the title The Letters of Vita Sackville-West and Virginia Woolf by Louise DeSalvo, and now have to add that to my wishlist as well. And holy heck, I then wikied her, and apparently she's quite the VW scholar (literally, she is), and noticed this title: Virginia Woolf: The Impact of Childhood Sexual Abuse on Her Life and Work. I had no idea I read one of the reviews on it on amazon and here's an excerpt:

”This is that kind of fantasy bridge book that allows true readers insight into an author without first having to go and study critical theory for ten years to even get through most books about great authors! I am an avid, organic, non-academic reader and this book was excellent for me. I think it also rescues and gives Virginia Woolf to all of us, as a writer, a woman, a child, a victim of circumstance. As opposed to mad, she was one incredible artist who adapted extremely well in such an isolated and shaming time.”

Adding it to my wishlist....

Adding it to mine too Having read some biogs I was aware of the problems Virginia had with one of her half brothers (if not both of them ) though there is debate as to the severity of it. I think it's most likely though that it had a profound effect on both her mental health and her sex life.

Ah, that explains it. 'Good old days' weren't always that good, were they. Even today the whole of the society isn't very accepting, so we can only imagine what it was like back then. Adding Hermione Lee to my wishlist....

I think we'd better lay off the subject of V. W. Because I now have added about 10 books about/by her on my wishlist and I can't take much more I'd rather we talk about someone we've both read every book by!

... and it's catching. I've just added some more too .. it's like a virus

Awww thank you for your kind words! I can't really fault Kylie, either, because I'm about 30 reviews behind myself... I'm looking forward to reading the ones you still have to write, especially To the Lighthouse And no, you can't use our conversation as a review!!

Oh bother!!

Edited August 17, 2011 by poppyshake

[Janet]

I'm so glad Janet is here to sort out the mess I'm getting myself into ... actually I could do with Janet in everyday life because often people give me that look like they've no idea what I'm talking about. She's explained it so well that I won't explain it further because if I did I'd be bound to confuse you ... I think I'm probably setting your English language study back years Sorry Frankie

Aww, shucks. I'm not a million miles away from you (about 10 miles South West of Bath) but sadly I think it's just that bit too far!

[poppyshake]

Aww, shucks. I'm not a million miles away from you (about 10 miles South West of Bath) but sadly I think it's just that bit too far!

That's a shame .. people will just have to remain confused. What I really need is sub-titles!

 

[poppyshake]

Swallows and Amazons - Arthur Ransome

Synopsis: To John, Susan, Titty and Roger, simply being allowed to use the boat Swallow to go camping on the island is adventure enough. But soon they find themselves under attack from the fierce Amazon pirates, Nancy and Peggy. And so begins a summer of battles, alliances, exploration and discovery.

Review: This was one of the few books that passed me by in childhood, I'm not quite sure why but I wish I'd read it then because I found it hard to disengage my adult brain. I was all the time thinking .. 'they shouldn't really be left to fend for themselves .. what on earth is their mother thinking? ... surely that's not safe .. what if they drown? ... oh crikey they've got matches' etc etc etc. When they went to meet with the charcoal burners and one of the men took them inside his tent I was nearly having a fit. Also my adult self couldn't quite get over how well behaved these children were and how well they got on together, no squabbling or punching to speak of, they were all very responsible and little Roger, who was seven, seemed to take it all in his stride when he was told that he wasn't quite old enough to do such and such or go so and so, surely he should have been prostrate on the floor, beetroot faced, kicking and screaming? Once, after learning that he couldn't go on a particular jaunt, he was told that he could lend them his torch and apparently that was just as good! These children weren't born they were sent directly from heaven. And so was the mother, she fell in with all their games, was happy to speak in gobbledygook (her being a native and all) and didn't moan at them once about catching chills or ruining clothes (though, she wasn't negligent .. she seemed to trust to their own good sense ) Perhaps it's not so much that I've grown up, perhaps it's that times have changed and maybe the world was a much more simpler, safer place back when Arthur wrote these stories (1930's.) Certainly his stories are very reminiscent of Enid's who was writing at around the same time. Sensible children, enjoying the outdoor life with an adventure or two thrown in and lashings and lashings of food. It was only every time I came to the name 'Titty' that I became ten again .. I can't imagine that it was ever a good idea to name her that but if it was, it certainly isn't now. I was happier to call them by their crew names ... Captain John, Master Mate (Susan) Able-Seaman (Titty) and Ship's Boy (Roger).

I've only ever been to the Lake District once but it was glorious and it stuck in my memory so it was easy to visualise the landscape in which these stories is set. The four siblings set sail for 'Wild Cat Island' where they are to spend a few days camping but straight away notice that the island shows signs of previous habitation. Naturally this makes them a bit wary and they've every right to be because it's not long before they have their first confrontation with the crew of the Amazon ... the indomitable Captain Nancy Blackett and her sister Peggy. I loved Nancy, she seemed to immerse herself in the role of pirate whole heartedly and her speech was littered with salty expressions such as ... 'hang on to the mainsheet you son of a sea-cook' ... 'we've done them fairly brown' and lots of timber shivering and calling people 'galoot's'. She and Peggy seemed like such good fun and though the Swallows and Amazons are sworn enemies to start with (and war is declared) they soon become allies in their quest to lay siege to Captain Flint (who is really Nancy and Peggy's Uncle Jim.)

I absolutely adored all the little illustrations and maps, they really bought the story to life. I wasn't a very outdoorsy sort of child, far too frightened of my own shadow for that but these books are just perfect for encouraging children to explore the great outdoors and take part in pursuits such as sailing, camping, hiking and fishing .. far better than sitting in front of a computer/TV screen. Whether todays children would find the stories too tame and dated I don't know, they seem to be still enjoying 'The Famous Five' which is encouraging.

The more I read of the story, the more I enjoyed it but I wish I had read it as a child.

7/10

Edited January 15, 2014 by poppyshake

[Kylie]

Aha! So that's why my ears have been burning lately. Gosh, you two have been busy nattering away while I've been gone. For now, I will skip your not-so-subtle reminders that I've hardly written any reviews all year (the one good thing about having no time for reading is that I'm not getting any further behind in my reviews).

 

I don't even know where to start commenting... I'll have to come back to it later (need to get some work done, I suppose).

[poppy]

And by the by, as I was looking at your goodreads account (I searched 'Woolf' from your shelves), I noticed the title The Letters of Vita Sackville-West and Virginia Woolf by Louise DeSalvo, and now have to add that to my wishlist as well.

 

I've got Violet to Vita. The Letters of Violet Trefusis to Vita Sackville-West on my TBR pile. Their relationship was quite fascinating too, I read a biography about Vita after watching Portrait of a Marriage on TV. Vita remained married to her husband Harold, they loved each other deeply, but both were involved in same sex relationships.

[frankie]

I'll come back later to reply to your posts as I don't have the time now, but I have to tell you about this little thing before I forget:

 

Last night I was reading Literary Trivia - Over 300 Curious Lists for Bookworms (thanks Kylie! ) and there were two Virginia Woolf -related things. Which shouldn't be surprising because she was an author, and the book's about authors and poets. Well anyways. Here:

 

"Short cuts - 30 succinct character assassinations:

 

[said about] Lytton Strachey

"The arch-bugger of Bloomsbury."

[said by] Quentin Bell

"

 

 

 

And

 

"A Walk on the wild side - 5 gay and lesbian affairs:

VIRGINIA WOOLF AND VITA SACKVILLE-WEST

Though Woolf was married, she was bisexual and carried on a five-year affair with Sackville-West, with whom she fell madly in love after meeting her in 1923. Her husband Leonard knew about their relationship, but said it didn't pose a thread to the stability of their marriage."

 

Aww bless Leonard

[poppyshake]

Aha! So that's why my ears have been burning lately. Gosh, you two have been busy nattering away while I've been gone. For now, I will skip your not-so-subtle reminders that I've hardly written any reviews all year (the one good thing about having no time for reading is that I'm not getting any further behind in my reviews).

 

I don't even know where to start commenting... I'll have to come back to it later (need to get some work done, I suppose).

We've been rumbled We're not hassling you Kylie (honest ) .. we know you're busy ... take your time ... whenever you're ready ... whatever suits you .. only, we miss you and we miss your reviews (so get typing Cobber )

[poppyshake]

I've got Violet to Vita. The Letters of Violet Trefusis to Vita Sackville-West on my TBR pile. Their relationship was quite fascinating too, I read a biography about Vita after watching Portrait of a Marriage on TV. Vita remained married to her husband Harold, they loved each other deeply, but both were involved in same sex relationships.

Vita is another fascinating character isn't she? Her marriage sounds a lot like Virginia's and Leonard's. I've always wanted to visit Sissinghurst Castle but it's just that little bit too far for me, maybe one day, it's said to be beautiful. I've put 'Violet to Vita' on my Goodreads list, thanks Poppy, I love letters and intrigue and just generally being nosey

[poppyshake]

Last night I was reading Literary Trivia - Over 300 Curious Lists for Bookworms (thanks Kylie! ) and there were two Virginia Woolf -related things. Which shouldn't be surprising because she was an author, and the book's about authors and poets. Well anyways. Here:

 

"Short cuts - 30 succinct character assassinations:

 

[said about] Lytton Strachey

"The arch-bugger of Bloomsbury."

[said by] Quentin Bell

I read that in Quentin's biog Lytton was rather promiscuous by all accounts. I love books with bits of trivia in like that

"A Walk on the wild side - 5 gay and lesbian affairs:

VIRGINIA WOOLF AND VITA SACKVILLE-WEST

Though Woolf was married, she was bisexual and carried on a five-year affair with Sackville-West, with whom she fell madly in love after meeting her in 1923. Her husband Leonard knew about their relationship, but said it didn't pose a threat to the stability of their marriage."

Aww bless Leonard

Yes, Leonard was a bit of a saint .. Virginia got a bit excited on their honeymoon (and from the way it was recounted I'm imagining that hysterical might be more the word) and so Leonard thought it best not to attempt it again (given her fragile mental state.) Up until his marriage with Virginia he'd had a fairly active sex life so he was definitely making a sacrifice for her. If he did manage to 'sort things out elsewhere' he was very discreet about it as nothing is known and bless him, he must have turned a blind eye to her dalliances.

Perhaps Virginia's uncomfortableness with men stemmed from her terrible experiences with her two half brothers ... who could blame her if so?