chesilbeach Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Is it just me, or is anyone else bewildered with the increasing number of sections within the fiction areas of the big book chain stores? Yesterday, I went into a largish Borders shop, wanting to get a copy of Stolen by Kelley Armstrong. I've not looked for any of her books in this particular shop before, so I start in the Fiction section. No luck, so onto the Horror section. Nope. Next tried the Fantasy section, but still no joy. I then tried the Sci-Fi section and the Romance section. I then look around the entire ground floor, including the Bestseller Chart section, the Special Offer tables, the Crime section and even the Manga section (I did draw the line at searching in the Classics, Poetry and Drama sections). Eventually I find her books on the opposite side of the Manga section, underneath the stairs in the Paranormal Romance section, only to find they didn't have the book I wanted anyway! How difficult was that? Why on earth we can't just have good old fashioned Fiction, with the books stored alphabetically by author, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookJumper Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I agree it's a bit silly to have a shelf that's nothing but Paranormal Romance; Forbidden Planet (who otherwise store all their Science Fiction and Fantasy together and in alphabetical order, which is incredibly useful of them) have recently put one up in the middle of their bookstore - it too didn't have what I was looking for, however (the sequel to Daniel Waters's "Generation Dead", "The Kiss of Life"). IMHO, dividing Speculative Fiction (Science Fiction, Fantasy, Horror) from Fiction makes sense in that quite a lot of readers of Fiction won't read Spec Fic and vice versa; however I don't really see the point in separating Paranormal Romance from the rest of Spec Fic, because that's what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlette Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Those sound like awfully big bookstores. I suppose I'm lucky because my local bookstores only have a few sections and they're very easy to navigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I've noticed the recent addition of paranormal romance sections as well. I also wish they would put things all together because it becomes very difficult when you're searching for a book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 My local book store also happens to be of the big chain variety (Chapters Inc). I'm always amazed at how many sections there are. Luckily for me they have computers to assist in your search. If they have it in stock then they normally tell you which section it is in. I once went to a bookstore in Edmonton (large Canadian city of about one million people), and they handed out maps so you could find the section you were looking for. That was ridiculous. It was a bit too big for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookBee8 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I usually am forced to order online as the nearest decent bookstore is a fifteen minute drive..and I can't drive! But when I do go into bookstores (usually Waterstone's) I tend to get lost a bit. But I'm easily confused anyway. The bigger one in Leicester is a bit all over the place, separated into sections and what not. So I usually stick to the smaller one. When I was in the states, I went into a Borders and a Barnes & Noble and found them both a bit excessive with their various sections. I didn't even buy any books from Borders as I couldn't figure out where anything was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I've never really minded the various sections, but I've just always found them easy to navigate...I've never come across anything called "Paranormal Romance"...I wouldn't even know what kind of books those are! Most of the larger bookstores that I go to have these sections: Literature/Fiction (and within that, Classics and Poetry) Horror Mystery SciFi/Fantasy Young Adult Manga Not too terrible, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosalind Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I don't have a lot of bookshop trouble. Here in Belgium we have in the bigger bookstores one small rack of english books. Since I read everything in english I only look on that rack any more. On the other hand when I go to London, and as there is a trip coming up in 2 weeks, I always frequent the Borders on Charing Cross(don't know why that one and not the one on Oxford Street). And although I will be looking for certain books I jut like to go pass all the racks and look at everything there is. When I don't find the book I want I just make a note of it and will order it online. But I did also notice the diversation in the genres, so when I do go in search of certain books (and yes I am already making a list to take with me) I have to look at every single shelve and see if it's even there. Why can't they like in large libraries have a terminal in the beginning of a store (without you having to ask a employee of the store to check) where the people who know what they want and don't know where to look for those books can just type in the title or author and get the correct place where the book can be found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I've never come across anything called "Paranormal Romance"...I wouldn't even know what kind of books those are! They are books like Richelle Mead's Succubus series, romance novels with vampires and demons etc aimed at the more mature reader (i.e. they have naughty bits in them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I really hate the fragmentation of bookshops between "serious" literature and "genre" literature. For all kinds of reasons, too. Even if the split is just fiction, sf and fantasy, romance, it still bugs the hell out of me. First of all, it allows people to become really insular in their reading habits - it means people can ignore huge swathes of fiction, and only ever buy in their preferred genre. That's the puritan side of me who thinks people should be encouraged out of their comfort zones. In the second wave, there's all the crossover stuff - how much "serious" fiction is also romantic. Or if you're looking at JG Ballard or Margaret Atwood, are you putting the books in SF or in "Fiction"; or even do you put the magical realism into fantasy? It means, too, that authors aren't encouraged to have varying and interesting outputs - publishers want them to fit safely in their genre so there's a comfortable way of marketing their output. Also, of course, historically it is a nonsensical suggestion that "romance" or "detective" fiction are not part of the mainstream of serious fiction. And, finally, there's the parallels with music - which I also despise the genre-isation of, where someone is only into grindcore or electroclash or whatever, and it's nonsensical, given that the best music is magpie like in its impurity and desire to steal from everything. I think the same is true of fiction, too. Just because something can have a particular label put on it, doesn't mean it would appeal - or even should appeal. Labelling and categorisation are bad things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I agree with Andy to some extent, although I do like that Waterstone's have their Classics section separate - I've found some different authors by looking specifically there that I wouldn't necessarily have noticed if they were all in together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesilbeach Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 I really hate the fragmentation of bookshops between "serious" literature and "genre" literature. For all kinds of reasons, too. Even if the split is just fiction, sf and fantasy, romance, it still bugs the hell out of me. First of all, it allows people to become really insular in their reading habits - it means people can ignore huge swathes of fiction, and only ever buy in their preferred genre. That's the puritan side of me who thinks people should be encouraged out of their comfort zones. In the second wave, there's all the crossover stuff - how much "serious" fiction is also romantic. Or if you're looking at JG Ballard or Margaret Atwood, are you putting the books in SF or in "Fiction"; or even do you put the magical realism into fantasy? It means, too, that authors aren't encouraged to have varying and interesting outputs - publishers want them to fit safely in their genre so there's a comfortable way of marketing their output. Also, of course, historically it is a nonsensical suggestion that "romance" or "detective" fiction are not part of the mainstream of serious fiction. And, finally, there's the parallels with music - which I also despise the genre-isation of, where someone is only into grindcore or electroclash or whatever, and it's nonsensical, given that the best music is magpie like in its impurity and desire to steal from everything. I think the same is true of fiction, too. Just because something can have a particular label put on it, doesn't mean it would appeal - or even should appeal. Labelling and categorisation are bad things. Thank you. That's exactly how I feel, and much better expressed than I could put it. I just needed to vent my annoyance when I wrote the original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I don't have a problem with different sections in bookshops (I tend to go around them all anyway!) as long as associated books (science fiction, horror, fantasy etc) are kept together, and the shop is generally well laid out and/or has a store guide somewhere. What bothers me is when a really good piece of science fiction or fantasy etc come out, or becomes popular, and it suddenly becomes too good to be science fiction or fantasy so it ends up in the general fiction section (see Doris Lessing, JG Ballard, Margaret Atwood etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fev Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I've never come across the notion of 'speculative fiction' (ie. versus 'realist') but like the differentiation! Although I read all sorts of fiction, now I come to think about it I find I will usually either be in a 'speculative' or 'realist' mood - I don't often crave specifically sci-fi for example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 What bothers me is when a really good piece of science fiction or fantasy etc come out, or becomes popular, and it suddenly becomes too good to be science fiction or fantasy so it ends up in the general fiction section (see Doris Lessing, JG Ballard, Margaret Atwood etc). I feel the complete opposite. I think the idea of trying to keep something as part of "my own genre", or trying to adopt it, is not only weird, but it's kind of selfish. Lots of people want to read, say, Margaret Atwood, and couldn't face reading EE Doc Smith, or even Orson Scott Card. But if you hide the more literary parts of SF in amongst the space opera, many people just won't venture in to that section of the bookshop and the world will miss out on some great books. You may respond that they should broaden their minds more, and not feel so prejudiced against SF. Maybe that's true, but it won't change things. Also, though, the idea of having an SF section in the first place is opposed to the idea of mind-broadening. And the narrower the cliquey sections, the worse it is. The idea that "paranormal romance" actually has a section in a bookshop is just insane. I remember a friend of mine once telling me that she liked novels about China. Which is just as weird a categorisation - because China can be anything from the court of Kubilai Khan, to Monkey, to the destruction of the cultural revolution, to some weird future-SF stuff. Her real taste was, actually, for slightly romantic visions of the far-east. But you'd be a bit freaked out if there was a "slightly romantic visions of the Far East" set of shelves in the bookshop, and rightly so. Anyway, I've been wandering off on one. Back to where I started - I'd much rather that E.E. Doc Smith and Philip K Dick were rolled in with Jane Austen and Stephen Donaldson and Kingsley Amis all on the same shelves, than turn up at a bookshop and not have a clue where to look for David Mitchell - a bit of ghosts, a bit of history, a bit of literary, a bit of SF - or where to look for Ballard - a bit of SF, future fiction, fantasy, literary. No matter that the SF fans think of these authors as "theirs". And, also, you have to pity the poor shop-worker who wonders where to put 1984 (do you move it away from all the other Orwell) or Brave New World or (if you take Brian Aldiss's approach from Trillion Year Spree) even Franz Kafka, or Frankenstein. Better, much better, to keep the fiction section properly heterogeneous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I feel the complete opposite. I think the idea of trying to keep something as part of "my own genre", or trying to adopt it, is not only weird, but it's kind of selfish. It's not about keeping something part of a genre, it's about the literary snobbery that if something is good, it can't be science fiction etc (this doesn't just apply to books btw, it also applies to films and TV as well. There was a review I read recently that said "this is too good to be science fiction" - what the hell is that suppose to mean?!). The idea that "paranormal romance" actually has a section in a bookshop is just insane. I'm not sure it is, as these books were previously being lumped in with horror books, and - apart from the bad writing - the one thing a lot of them are not is horror. Back to where I started - I'd much rather that E.E. Doc Smith and Philip K Dick were rolled in with Jane Austen and Stephen Donaldson and Kingsley Amis all on the same shelves, than turn up at a bookshop and not have a clue where to look for David Mitchell - a bit of ghosts, a bit of history, a bit of literary, a bit of SF - or where to look for Ballard - a bit of SF, future fiction, fantasy, literary. No matter that the SF fans think of these authors as "theirs". Better, much better, to keep the fiction section properly heterogeneous. I don't agree with this; having everything lumped together is fine if you just want to browse and be surprised, but it's not a very helpful way of finding books if you don't know the author or want something from a specific genre. I tend to look through most sections - when I have the time - but if I'm pressed for time I always make a point of looking at the science fiction books because that is where my main interest lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreader Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I'm not against having different sections. Having all fiction listed alphabetically works if you know which author you're looking for. I wonder around all sections. I might feel like horror so I look at the horror section and I can compare books. I'd to the same for crime/mystery, fantasy, sci-fi, classics and yes I've noticed that sometimes there's now the a paranormal romance section in some places. The trouble is that some books cross genres or are hard to classify and it gets comfusing. I've noticed that happens in some libraries too. That Kelly Armstrong book, Bitten, I've seen classified as horror in one place, paperback fiction in another and under fantasy/sci-fi elsewhere. I've seen books written by the same author in the same series and each book is in different sections some in romance some in sci-fi fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 If I wasn't before, I'm now firmly in favour of book segregation on the grounds that the science fiction/fantasy/horror section of a local bookshop has been overrun with a flood of Twilight wannabes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterioso Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 If I wasn't before, I'm now firmly in favour of book segregation on the grounds that the science fiction/fantasy/horror section of a local bookshop has been overrun with a flood of Twilight wannabes. and a bunch of sad middle-aged women obsessed by pararomance...yuk! Maybe we should relegate pararomance into the dark, damp basement as most straight-up readers of sci-fi/fantasy and horror are perfectly affable and intelligent people..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 and a bunch of sad middle-aged women obsessed by pararomance...yuk! Maybe we should relegate pararomance into the dark, damp basement as most straight-up readers of sci-fi/fantasy and horror are perfectly affable and intelligent people..... Easy there Tiger! Speaking as a 42 year old, I may take exception to your comment! I also consider myself one of of life's perfectly affable and intelligent people Although para romance doesn't quite rock my boat, let's not get too book snobbish! Reading is reading, and a book buyer is a book buyer. How the shops are designating their space and sectioning may leave a lot to be desired, there is no doubt that the rise in popularity in recent years in some areas (real life tragedy, romantic vampires etc.) means that for purely economic reasons they must give over significant shelf space just to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterioso Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Easy there Tiger! Speaking as a 42 year old, I may take exception to your comment! I also consider myself one of of life's Although para romance doesn't quite rock my boat, let's not get too book snobbish! Reading is reading, and a book buyer is a book buyer. How the shops are designating their space and sectioning may leave a lot to be desired, there is no doubt that the rise in popularity in recent years in some areas (real life tragedy, romantic vampires etc.) means that for purely economic reasons they must give over significant shelf space just to compete. Sorry Chrissy- only speaking as a very experienced bookseller and in no way a snob about reading. I always read examples of the trash I pass comment on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 and a bunch of sad middle-aged women obsessed by pararomance...yuk! Maybe we should relegate pararomance into the dark, damp basement as most straight-up readers of sci-fi/fantasy and horror are perfectly affable and intelligent people..... No, you misunderstand me, I wasn't talking about the customers, I was talking about the number of Twilight clones that have suddenly appeared. They are usually black covered books with a drop of blood on them, or a pair of vampire fangs on the cover etc. In the bookshop I was referring to, about 70% of the books they had in the science fiction/fantasy/horror section fell into this sub-genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterioso Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 No, you misunderstand me, I wasn't talking about the customers, I was talking about the number of Twilight clones that have suddenly appeared. They are usually black covered books with a drop of blood on them, or a pair of vampire fangs on the cover etc. In the bookshop I was referring to, about 70% of the books they had in the science fiction/fantasy/horror section fell into this sub-genre. Oh and there was me enjoying dissecting the fanbase of these marvellous contributions to the world of literature:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiepiper Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 No, you misunderstand me, I wasn't talking about the customers, I was talking about the number of Twilight clones that have suddenly appeared. They are usually black covered books with a drop of blood on them, or a pair of vampire fangs on the cover etc. In the bookshop I was referring to, about 70% of the books they had in the science fiction/fantasy/horror section fell into this sub-genre. Yeah I've noticed this too, lots of apples on the front covers too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katrina1968 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 My bookshoppe is independent and of a fairly eclectic variety. We do classify our subjects. As we have a decent amount of Goth authors we have to keep these books together. Our dedicated customers would stroke out if we intergrated these with say, SyFi! Our dedicated romance is just that, mysteries the same way. We have an "urban" section (African American authors) that really ticks me off because I have always felt that it limits the readers choices. But then, thats the only thing the die hard urban readers will read. I did wear down the manager and got her to remove the Af. Am. Christian authors be placed with the other Christian authors, the same with bios and non-fiction. Its insulting to have all the Af. Am. authors lumped together when they too write in different genres. Our system is simple, top 10 front and center or in the window, new releases at the door as you come in (if they make the 10, they are moved) new SyFi gets placed in the proper section facing out, our customers understand this means its a new release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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