Please discuss with me John Steinbeck Of Mice and Men

[lunababymoonchild]

I am currently reading The Pastures of Heaven by John Steinbeck and it's turning into one of the best books I've ever read and Steinbeck is becoming one of my favourite writers.  This is a big turn around for me because I read Of Mice and Men when I was at school and it horrified me to my core. I finished it because it was a school text but refused to read the Grapes of Wrath and decided that those were the only books that Steinbeck wrote, so deliberately avoided him up until someone on Book Group Online encouraged me to check out his other writing.

 

What I want to discuss is this : I was around 13/14 when made to read this and looking back on it I think that I was was too young to read something like that. It was different when I chose to read a horrific book (and I did, started with James Herbert and moved on to Stephen King at roughly the same age) and I had no idea that things described in OMaM could happen - I was well aware that it was fiction - and it just shook me to my core. I thought that it was just me, I was brought up in a family of mentally retarded and disabled people and this book just came too close to home for comfort, but we touched on this a little on Book Group Online and one of the members there is a school teacher who teaches this to her class as part of the curriculum and she said that it had that effect on pretty much all of the children. 

 

So, is Of Mice and Men a horrific book?

 

Should it be taught to young teenagers - yes it's a great piece of literature but it's not the only book Steinbeck wrote and he's not the only great writer that can be taught so there's plenty of great literature to choose from that isn't quite so horrific?

 

Could it lead to discrimination against disabled people?

 

I'm glad that I did explore Steinbeck so all is not lost but I honestly had no idea he'd written anything other than the two books (Of Mice and Men and The Grapes of Wrath) and hate to think that school texts put me off reading anything at all.   

 

I'd appreciate opinions on this, please.

Edited August 25, 2022 by lunababymoonchild
correct typo and include another question

[Hayley]

I was also horrified by Of Mice and Men - I think Steinbeck meant for us to be! I tutor kids who are studying it for GCSE and I don't like teaching the ending because it makes me so sad every time I read it. 

 

I definitely don't think it would lead to discrimination against disabled people though, I think it does the opposite. As you said, pretty much everyone has the same reaction and I think that's because Steinbeck makes us see how horribly unfair society is to Lennie, how he doesn't ever really stood a chance, and as readers we don't want that. So I think it's more likely to make people think about the way disabled people are treated in society in a way that might lead to positive change. 

 

Actually, I think that does for all the prejudice represented in the book. Discrimination against physical disability (with Candy and his dog), race (with Crooks) and gender (with Curley's wife) all feel similarly unfair. None of them really stand a chance, we get this sense of inevitable tragedy and that's not the kind of society we want to live in.

 

Have you read the Burns poem the title is based on?

To a Mouse by Robert Burns | Poetry Foundation

[lunababymoonchild]

Good points all, Hayley and none that I had considered.

 

Yes, I've read To a Mouse by Robert Burns but did not know that Of Mice and Men was based on it, thanks for pointing it out.

Edited August 25, 2022 by lunababymoonchild

[Hayley]

2 hours ago, lunababymoonchild said:

Yes, I've read To a Mouse by Robert Burns but did not know that Of Mice and Men was based on it, thanks for pointing it out.

I only found out this year but it makes sense once you know doesn't it!? (And makes the inclusion of Lennie's mice seem particularly clever, I think)

[lunababymoonchild]

2 hours ago, Hayley said:

I only found out this year but it makes sense once you know doesn't it!? (And makes the inclusion of Lennie's mice seem particularly clever, I think)

It does

[poppy]

I read quite a few of Steinbeck's books when I was young but the only one I remember having an impact on me now was Grapes of Wrath. The poverty and hardships of the poor had a big affect on me.

Muggle is a big fan of Steinbeck. I hope he sees this thread.

[Hayley]

8 minutes ago, poppy said:

Muggle is a big fan of Steinbeck. I hope he sees this thread.

The @ function works again now by the way . So, @muggle not we'd like your thoughts on this 😊

[poppy]

34 minutes ago, Hayley said:

The @ function works again now by the way . So, @muggle not we'd like your thoughts on this 😊

 

Thanks Hayley, was just about to message him 😘

[lunababymoonchild]

2 hours ago, Hayley said:

The @ function works again now by the way . So, @muggle not we'd like your thoughts on this 😊

I had no idea that this existed! I didn't know that Muggle Not is a fan of Steinbeck either. Great stuff!

Edited August 27, 2022 by lunababymoonchild

[poppy]

Just discovered Of Mice and Men, Pastures of Heaven and Grapes of Wrath in my bookshelf, so obviously have read them in the past. May have to revisit them.

[muggle not]

First, John Steinbeck is my No.1 favorite author closely followed by Charles Dickens.. There are some of the Steinbeck books that I have read "at least" 3 times each. I started reading Steinbeck when I was much younger and as the years go by I find his books great reading again and again. I think it may be time for me to do another re-read of some of his books while I am still on this earth. 🙂

 

I read Of Mice and Men twice. To me the book was not horrific, but again I can see where you may think it is. Those were tough times and Steinbeck delved into what people may not have wanted to see or hear. I will have to do another re-read.

 

Grapes of Wrath actually changed life in America to some degree when people seen what was happening in America / California.

Edited August 28, 2022 by muggle not

[Hayley]

1 hour ago, muggle not said:

To me the book was not horrific, but again I can see where you may think it is.

Maybe traumatic would be more accurate than horrific - the ending makes me want to cry literally every time I read it. Probably evidence of how  good Steinbeck is, but he breaks my heart 💔

[lunababymoonchild]

45 minutes ago, Hayley said:

Maybe traumatic would be more accurate than horrific - the ending makes me want to cry literally every time I read it. Probably evidence of how  good Steinbeck is, but he breaks my heart 💔

Perhaps I should read it again. It's been more than 40 years and the only thing I actually remember is the horror I felt then. Perhaps as an adult I'll be able to view it differently.

 

2 hours ago, muggle not said:

First, John Steinbeck is my No.1 favorite author closely followed by Charles Dickens.. There are some of the Steinbeck books that I have read "at least" 3 times each. I started reading Steinbeck when I was much younger and as the years go by I find his books great reading again and again. I think it may be time for me to do another re-read of some of his books while I am still on this earth. 🙂

 

I read Of Mice and Men twice. To me the book was not horrific, but again I can see where you may think it is. Those were tough times and Steinbeck delved into what people may not have wanted to see or hear. I will have to do another re-read.

 

Grapes of Wrath actually changed life in America to some degree when people seen what was happening in America / California.

Thank you for that. He is fast becoming a favourite of mine. I do know that he was passionate about writing about the effect that the Great Depression had on already poor people and as a result he pulled no punches. Being a great author he made it feel real. I think that I'm due a re-read too.

[muggle not]

East of Eden is another great book by Steinbeck. It was also a good movie that starred James Dean in his first movie. 

 

I also enjoyed Tortilla Flat, Cannery Row, and Sweet Thursday. All 3 books take place near or in Monterey, California and are humorous to a certain extent. I would read them in the order listed but they can be read in any order. My favorite of the 3 was Cannery Row. I loved all 3 books.

 

Tortilla Flat and Cannery Row have also been made into movies. Tortilla Flat starred Spencer Tracy and Hedy Lamarr and John Garfield. Frank Morgan received an Academy Award for best supporting actor in the movie.

 

I visited Monterey, California in 2000 and had a wonderful dinner at Cannery Row. Cannery Row has been converted to a group of nice restaurants. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by muggle not

[lunababymoonchild]

I have East of Eden on paper and I've read Tortilla Flat but not Cannery Row or Sweet Thursday. The Pastures of Heaven is within reach of Monterey so Steinbeck is a master of relating unrelated books.

 

I'll look out for the films