Oblomov Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I am sure that almost all of us have felt some empathy towards the bad guy in one or more books that we have read, if not hoping that he wins.......at least that gets away. I certainly have felt that way on many occasions. For me the most notable 'inverse' support is in J Fenimore Cooper's classic Last of the Mohicans. I first 'read' this book as a 11-year old in 1966 when an older boy narrated the story to us 3 youngsters page by page over a week during school summer holidays, complete with arm-swinging dramatisations of key events. All of us (but most particularly I) felt empathy towards Magua, the native Huron who swears vengeance against the white colonials and the Delawares. Despite all the mayhem he creates in the story, I sincerely wished (and still do) that Magua had succeeded in his final bid for freedom at the end. We argued for days afterwards how Cooper should have changed the ending and made Magua successfully evade Hawkeye's bullet. Another book where I am sure that millions share my empathy towards the villain (well, of a sort) who does get away with it is Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island. How can anyone with spirit not admire Long John Silver? What about you? Who is your favourite villain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finrod Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Lafcadio Wluiki the picaresque hero of The Vatican Cellars (Andr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicken Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I dunno about rooting for the villian but I really feel for Harold Lauder in The Stand by Stephen King. He begins as a pathetic teenager with an unrequited crush, goes on to be a complete b****rd and general nasty peice of work, and ends up being an innocent (sort of) victim in someone else's nasty scheme, and he meets a truly horrific end. So although he is a villian,and a very bad man, he is also quite a sympathetic character that the reader loves and hates. Well I did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 by Chicken I dunno about rooting for the villian but I really feel for Harold Lauder in The Stand by Stephen King. He begins as a pathetic teenager with an unrequited crush, goes on to be a complete b****rd and general nasty peice of work, and ends up being an innocent (sort of) victim in someone else's nasty scheme, and he meets a truly horrific end. So although he is a villian,and a very bad man, he is also quite a sympathetic character that the reader loves and hates. Well I did __________________ Bah humbug I hav e never read the stand but bt the post you did I am looking forward to getting the book have dropped a sutle hit to my son for christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicken Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Oh Boy are you in for a treat The Stand is my most favouritest book ever ever ever, its great. If santa does not fetch you one, go and buy it for yourself, its worth every penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I agree with Chicken, I felt sorry for Harold Lauder in 'The Stand' too, he was a lonely kid and he found himself in this situation which he could not deal with. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecream Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I sort of felt sorry for Voldemort in Harry Potter when his life story started to come out. He had such a bad start and if he had been shown some compassion then who knows, but then he turned out to be such a horribly evil creature that I am not sure that would have been possible. Maybe he was just born that way and always destined for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Tom Ripley in The Talented Mr Ripley - I desperately wanted him to get away with the murdering and forging and impersonating others - I thought he was a fascinating character and I loved him to death! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 The classic example of this, for me, is the fantastically nasty and unpleasant narrator in John Lanchester's A Debt To Pleasure. It's all the worse because you really know the narrator is a nasty, venal, vindictive character, but you just keep sympathising with his opinions on all kinds of things. And it's one of my favourite books of all. Long before this, I think it was The Day of the Jackal which really surprised me as a teenager. I think it was the first book I'd read where the principle character is basically a bad guy, so when he failed and the French policemen got him, at the end, I was really disappointed. I think that was more the shock of discovering at the end that I'd been supporting the villain that means the book has stuck with me a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblomov Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 Whether the Jackal is really a "bad guy" is a matter of opinion. Sure, he was a professional assassin, but by and large victims of mercinaries tend to be on the bad side themselves. I certainly wished he had succeeded in killing De Gaulle (although history told me otherwise), who was little more than a conniving, opportunistic politician - which translates to a very bad guy in my books. The others that the Jackal kills in the book are victims of circumstances - the nasty little blackmailing forger, the Baroness, the homosexual Frenchman Jules Bernard or the young CRS man at the end. The Jackal did not kill when he did not have to - like the gunsmith Paul Goossens or the concierge Madame Berthe (whom he just knocks out to gain entry). He is more of a hero than the villain in the book and I certainly felt sorry when Lebel killed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Well, I suppose that's true. I remember thinking he was the hero, until right at the end when he was killed and I decided I had to think outside the confines of how he was presented in the book itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I always felt sorry for Diogenes, the sinister brother/nemesis of Pendergast in the Pretson/Child novels, especially in The Book of the Dead when you finally find out what had happened to him as a child. Also, no one can help feeling sorry for Gollum in The Lord of the Rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecream Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yes, I did feel sorry for Gollum. Like Gandalf said, everyone has a part to play, but what a part Gollum had! I too thought that Tom Ripley was a fascinating character and wanted him to stop, but I only saw the film. I haven't read the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I'm not sure I was on his side particularly, but I loved Iago from Othello - such a deliciously great baddie! Actually, Shakespeare does a good line in bad guys - Richard III was a good one too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblomov Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 I'm not sure I was on his side particularly, but I loved Iago from Othello So do I, much to my wife's chagrin. The Bard must have done as well; did you know that Othello is the only Shakespearian play where the villain (Iago) gets more speaking lines than the hero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 So do I, much to my wife's chagrin. The Bard must have done as well; did you know that Othello is the only Shakespearian play where the villain (Iago) gets more speaking lines than the hero? No, I didn't. I know he says masses more than Othello but I didn't realise he was the only one. Have you seen the Kenneth Brannagh version by any chance? He makes a wonderful Iago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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