Nollaig Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've lived where guns are completely illegal, and it really is a nice feeling. The question of rights in the United States -- on many fronts, definitely not just gun control -- is a complicated one that many feel very passionate about. My thought as to why is that many critical points in our nation's history are centered around the struggle for rights -- the right to be free from British rule and the right to defend ourselves to accomplish that, the right to practice whatever religion we choose free from government intervention, the right to freedom for slaves, the right for those freed people to vote, and later the right for women to vote, the right to be educated, the right for African Americans to use the same public spaces as Caucasians -- struggles like these continue to this day in the United States, and the need many feel to struggle for rights and/or against any perceived oppression of rights is very real. These are just my thoughts on how things seem to be. Others might analyze it differently. Yeah, I completely get that and do agree. I just think equality of rights between genders and races in things like voting and occupation of public spaces doesn't compare to the right to arm yourself with extreme firepower without any questions. That's a sense of entitlement gone too far. (Not suggesting you disagree, just clarifying my view. Hope I don't come across as ignorant!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Yeah, I completely get that and do agree. I just think equality of rights between genders and races in things like voting and occupation of public spaces doesn't compare to the right to arm yourself with extreme firepower without any questions. That's a sense of entitlement gone too far. (Not suggesting you disagree, just clarifying my view. Hope I don't come across as ignorant!!)lets not forget that this was a mass murder by Radical Islam. Same as what is happening all over the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 lets not forget that this was a mass murder by Radical Islam. Same as what is happening all over the world. I'm not commenting on that aspect, as I've seen mentions of his not being particularly religious, and it being a homophobic hate crime (apparently he was repulsed by seeing two men kissing a few months earlier?) moreso than driven by religion.... though it could be a mix of both things. I really don't know, I haven't read enough about it. I've just seen a lot of people talking about how everyone is assuming it's purely a religiously driven attack, as opposed to an attack on the LGBT community. There was some interesting reporting on Sky News about that, actually. I do know there would be fewer gun-related deaths if there were regulations in place like in many other countries, so that's the aspect I'm commenting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I'm not commenting on that aspect, as I've seen mentions of his not being particularly religious, and it being a homophobic hate crime (apparently he was repulsed by seeing two men kissing a few months earlier?) moreso than driven by religion.... though it could be a mix of both things. I really don't know, I haven't read enough about it. I've just seen a lot of people talking about how everyone is assuming it's purely a religiously driven attack, as opposed to an attack on the LGBT community. There was some interesting reporting on Sky News about that, actually. I do know there would be fewer gun-related deaths if there were regulations in place like in many other countries, so that's the aspect I'm commenting on. http://www.aol.com/article/2016/06/13/isis-released-another-statement-claiming-responsibility-orlando-shooting/21394153/ The suspected gunman, 29-year-old Omar Mateen, called 911 on Saturday night and pledged allegiance to ISIS. ISIS-affiliated news agency Amaq News reportedly said the shooting was the work of "a soldier of the caliphate," in a statement Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 http://www.aol.com/article/2016/06/13/isis-released-another-statement-claiming-responsibility-orlando-shooting/21394153/ The suspected gunman, 29-year-old Omar Mateen, called 911 on Saturday night and pledged allegiance to ISIS. ISIS-affiliated news agency Amaq News reportedly said the shooting was the work of "a soldier of the caliphate," in a statement Sunday. Fair enough. I was just commenting on what I know rather than speculating about things I do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeleine Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I think the right to bear arms is written into the US constitution - please correct me if I'm wrong? But I do think there needs to be something done about the gun laws, whatever the reasons behind this latest atrocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Fair enough. I was just commenting on what I know rather than speculating about things I do not know.I do agree with you on the status of gun control in the U.S. It is insane to permit "just anyone" to purchase assault weapons. The NRA in the U.S. is way, way, too powerful. I hate though for this atrocity to become all about gun control when the basis for the murders is belief in and support for ISIS. Edited June 13, 2016 by muggle not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 And also in the fact that it was a gay club. Which is getting omitted as noteworthy, disgracefully, absolutely everywhere. It was a hate crime, targeting the LGBT community, whatever the reasons for that were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Noll, I agree - the impression I get is that he would have attacked that club, whether he identified with ISIS or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Begins Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Actually, it's quite publicized here now, that it was a hate crime, his parents have even apologized and said he was homophobic. Gay communities all over the country have come out in sorrow. Memorials are all around the country. His ex wife said he was a paranoid man, who beat her. Yes, we have a big problem with guns here, a serious one. That's all I'll say about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I still believe it was a hate crime more so than a religious terror attack, but I have no facts to back up that claim, only a general feeling I've gotten from reading a bunch of stuff, so I'm not saying any more about it other than that it definitely needs to be recognised as a hate crime in addition to whatever else it might have been. ETA: Posted at the same time as Anna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtrpath27 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 And also in the fact that it was a gay club. Which is getting omitted as noteworthy, disgracefully, absolutely everywhere. It was a hate crime, targeting the LGBT community, whatever the reasons for that were. Echoing what Anna said, the fact that it was a gay club is at the forefront of all the reporting I've seen and heard. To me, the true tragedy is the senseless loss of human life. So sad for all the friends and families who have lost loved ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Noll, I agree - the impression I get is that he would have attacked that club, whether he identified with ISIS or not.Not necessarily. It appears that he also scouted out Downtown Disney for the attack before deciding on the Gay Club. http://www.aol.com/article/2016/06/13/report-orlando-shooter-scouted-disney-world-for-potential-attac/21394481/ From his wife: Salman told law enforcement Sunday, a day after the attack that left 49 dead at Pulse nightclub, that recently Mateen had been scouting both the nightclub and Downtown Disney as potential places to attack. Edited June 13, 2016 by muggle not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Echoing what Anna said, the fact that it was a gay club is at the forefront of all the reporting I've seen and heard. To me, the true tragedy is the senseless loss of human life. So sad for all the friends and families who have lost loved ones. It is, but it's important to recognize the targets of it. Particularly in America, being gay is still a serious issue in places (as in many many other countries), and I think for the LGBT community to see the fact of their community as targets being brushed aside as irrelevant, is tough. I didn't realise myself how tough until I started reading articles written by members of the LGBT community talking about how it's already difficult for them to find safe spaces, without an attack like this magnifying the fear. But yeah, the whole thing is just senseless and heartbreaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtrpath27 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 It is, but it's important to recognize the targets of it. I agree with that, and I feel that there is a great deal of recognition. Possibly other countries are only seeing a snapshot of media coverage here in the US? Currently, I'm living in one of the most conservative parts of the US, and people seem to be genuinely shocked and saddened by the entire situation. If there's that feeling and coverage here, I imagine it's even more so in other parts of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I agree with that, and I feel that there is a great deal of recognition. Possibly other countries are only seeing a snapshot of media coverage here in the US? Currently, I'm living in one of the most conservative parts of the US, and people seem to be genuinely shocked and saddened by the entire situation. If there's that feeling and coverage here, I imagine it's even more so in other parts of the country. That's very possible. I read an article here about how RTE (Irish news channel) didn't mention it being a gay club (because god forbid you say anything about 'the gays' on RTE) and on Sky News (British news channel) a gay journo stormed out of a newspaper review when the other two with him kept basically qualifying his statements by adding that 'well it's about human beings isn't it' and the like, downplaying the LGBT aspect of it. He eventually stormed off. I think he reacted badly, but his point was a good one. All he said was 'we have to recognize this as an attack on the LGBT community' and the other two literally went, 'so you're saying this is a worse attack than the one in Paris, because it's against LGBT people?' It was crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 According to news outlets, his father is now being scrutinized. It appears he is also homophobic and has made some interesting political YouTube videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Begins Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 I had a friend almost beat to death on Halloween in San Francisco's Castro District, so ya, I'd say it's dangerous to be gay... even in a gay community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeleine Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I just find it hard to believe that one of the most powerful men in the world can't seem to be able to do anything about a law in his own country. I've heard how powerful the NRA are, and think it's quite scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtrpath27 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Laws in the United States are passed in the Legislative Branch (the House and Senate) not the Executive Branch. It's part of the system of checks and balances to keep one branch from getting too much power. Now, the president can veto a law. That's how the President keeps tabs on Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) One policeman died and another officer was injured when trying to get to a man who'd shot at his brother's grandson. It's so, so very rare for a police officer to die or get killed in action here in Finland. It's really shocking Edit: The killer was known to have an unstable temper and he had a rap sheet. He killed himself after killing and shooting the two policemen. Edited June 18, 2016 by frankie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I was so sorry to hear of the Orlando shooting . It's a tragedy . Frankie, I'm sorry about the two policemen . Here policemen getting dying in action is rare too. I'm sorry . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Another senseless murder by cop, caught on video. Graphic. The victim was penned down. His gun was tucked in his clothing. He was shot while his arms were stretched out. He was murdered by cops who had shot another man two years ago with no reprisal. http://m.wistv.com/wistv/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:sSSOq0Ae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Horrible, . I saw that on NOLA.com. But the vid I saw didn't actually show the shooting, the camera shifted off to the right when the shots were fired. I didn't see a link in your article, Virginia. I hope the store cameras caught it. Baton Rouge is only 90 miles to our West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Here you go but be warned. The video shows his murder. You can Raff the article instead. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/06/us/baton-rouge-shooting-alton-sterling/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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