poppyshake Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Well it doesn't take much, to be fair. If you can prove that it doesn't exist I'll believe you Well neither they nor I can prove it does/doesn't exist.. but they are chucking more money at it. I just looked at the situation and went 'nah' Another thing that drives me .. further .. up the pole is that they answer nearly every question with 'we don't actually know' I love Stargazing Live - I wish it was on more than just the three times It's certainly better than most **** that passes for TV. I love looking at our own solar system ... all the planets and constellations etc .. fascinating. It's when they wander off much further than that and start talking about planets they haven't seen but have an understanding of thanks to data etc .. I just think the money could be better spent on mosquito nets Nearly everything that went before has been discredited .. and some of this stuff will probably be thought of as bunkum in 2050. Whereas .. with the Bake Off ... a cake is always going to be a cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 But I'm worried, that you Mum thinks that Prof Brian is evil? Does she know something that he is hiding himself from the rest of the earthworld ?! No .. she doesn't know anything to be honest .. she doesn't always know me from my sister She thinks he's a harbinger of doom Not so much in these programmes (though she doesn't differentiate .. he's just out and out ... twirly moustache .. wide epaulettes .. evil ) but in the natural world programmes that he does .. where he's always telling us how the sun is going to suck us all up SOONER rather than later (and she says he always grins whilst saying it but I think Brian just grins all the time .. even in his sleep I bet.) I annoy her even more by suggesting he might be a relative (as I was a Cox before marriage ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Of course he's evil - he was in D:Ream True Things can only get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Well neither they nor I can prove it does/doesn't exist.. but they are chucking more money at it. I just looked at the situation and went 'nah' Another thing that drives me .. further .. up the pole is that they answer nearly every question with 'we don't actually know' Well until someone can categorically disprove it I'll continue to find it hard to believe that there is no other life in our galaxy, let alone the universe, thank you very much It's certainly better than most **** that passes for TV. I love looking at our own solar system ... all the planets and constellations etc .. fascinating. It's when they wander off much further than that and start talking about planets they haven't seen but have an understanding of thanks to data etc .. I just think the money could be better spent on mosquito nets I'd far rather they stopped spending the money on wars than on science and exploration Whereas .. with the Bake Off ... a cake is always going to be a cake A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips <-- already proved Edited January 11, 2014 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devi Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I find it hard to believe there is no other life out there, it so vast how could there not be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'd far rather they stopped spending the money on wars than on science and exploration And footballers! I find it hard to believe there is no other life out there, it so vast how could there not be? It depends though, wasn't the way our world was created a completely random fluke? (I mean the BBT, not the old man with a beard and a whim ). It's just annoying because there are so many problems on our world, and yet so much money is put into something that's speculative at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's just annoying because there are so many problems on our world, and yet so much money is put into something that's speculative at best. Spot the people who don't like science fiction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie H Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 True Things can only get worse. I find it hard to believe there is no other life out there, it so vast how could there not be? I think if we ever any other life forms, we humans will destroy them, as well as others on our own planet Spot the people who don't like science fiction Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willoyd Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Looking for other life is simply part of the drive to explore space. To not explore would be to deny our humanity. Yes, humans have done some pretty terrible things on and to this planet, but space exploration is not one of them. The efforts put into space exploration have achieved much in extending our knowledge and understanding of the universe and of our planet, creating a better understanding of what is happening to Earth and helping develop ways of dealing with it. Inevitably there will be a downside, but I suggest that the upsides far outway the down (incidentally, the list of technological discoveries that have been developed through space exploration and have benefited life and the environment is pretty big - the extremes of space make a wonderful testing ground!). However, it goes way beyond short-term utilitarianism. We need to explore, we need the inspiration that space exploration provides. And, in the long term, humans will need to look beyond the Earth if we are (for good or ill) to survive. On the topic of looking for life elsewhere, we have no idea whether life exists beyond this planet, but increasing evidence suggests that it could. For instance, a few decades ago, no planet that could sustain life (as we know it) had been discovered. Now we think there may be as many as 2 billion just in our own galaxy. I'm quite glad that scientists are prepared to say "We don't know". It's honest! It depends though, wasn't the way our world was created a completely random fluke? (I mean the BBT, not the old man with a beard and a whim ). I think we're looking at a situation where, rather than something being completely random, "We don't know" (!) how it happened. Much that initially looks random is later shown to have a perfectly good explanation. When we will know, if ever, is uncertain! It's just annoying because there are so many problems on our world, and yet so much money is put into something that's speculative at best. If we don't investigate, we don't find out. That is the nature of speculating. Much that we know and benefit from today was mere speculation in the past! Spot the people who don't like science fiction Can't say I'm much of a fan either! Edited January 12, 2014 by willoyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'd far rather they stopped spending the money on wars than on science and exploration Well yes .. me too .. and I have no problem with them spending a lot of money .. it's just they spend squillions and yet we still can't solve simple problems like too much water/not enough water, too much food/not enough food. It's just .. some of the stuff they do .. seems like the stuff you'd only look into if everything on your planet was ok. For instance .. if I liken the scientists budget to my Sainsbury's shopping budget .. it should work something like this ... A fairly generous weekly shop Extra money for treats .. possibly some cupcakes, a scotch egg and the latest food magazine Some floating candles A book/CD/DVD ... now that's where it should stop (and I'm being generous cos I don't always get to have the treats) .. no shovelling in a bottle of limoncello (just to see what it's like) or trying out the new anti-wrinkle serum (or anything with the word serum in it) and definitely no microwave, set of matching crockery or dressing gown. I would stand there looking at the scientists receipt and ask 'do you really need this?' I'd have the budget sorted out it no time There'd be no limits on their budget for sorting out world/health related issues though. In effect they would be able to buy the limoncello and some blinis and caviar to go with A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips <-- already proved Yes and this always will remain a fact .. they will never be changing their minds (though they will change their minds regularly over whether salt/sugar/fat/carbs/wine/women/song are good/bad for you ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I find it hard to believe there is no other life out there, it so vast how could there not be? Yes, well ... let them look for us then We can achieve the same results but it'll be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'd have the budget sorted out it no time No you wouldn't, you'd spend it all on cake and books and then want more Yes, well ... let them look for us then We can achieve the same results but it'll be cheaper. You know, considering you don't believe in life on other planets it sounds remarkably like you're talking from Uranus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No you wouldn't, you'd spend it all on cake and books and then want more True You know, considering you don't believe in life on other planets it sounds remarkably like you're talking from Uranus No change there then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willoyd Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Well yes .. me too .. and I have no problem with them spending a lot of money .. it's just they spend squillions and yet we still can't solve simple problems like too much water/not enough water, too much food/not enough food. But space exploration has certainly contributed extensively to helping in the efforts being made to ensure we have enough water and food. Amongst other things, it has played a vital role in development in the following fields (and others!): telecommunications meteorology navigation fuel cells and solar energy monitoring and supporting the conservation of the environment soil remediation techniques medical health robotics computing materials (particularly lightweight, fire retardation, insulation etc) water filtration/purification So: artificial hearts and limbs, lightweight limb braces, keyhole surgery, home insulation, furniture construction, car safety devices, vehicle rescue equipment, smoke detectors, water cleanliness, the laptop and other miniaturised computing, telephones, internet, safe navigation at sea and on land, weather forecasting, optimisation of agricultural production, monitoring environmental pollution, solar panels, green fuel cells, cleaning up polluted soil, artificial soil substrates, cordless power tools.....and a whole lot more - all a direct result of or massively influenced by space exploration work. And that's not to include all the immeasurables, like inspiration etc. Personally, my concern is how little we spend on space exploration! In 2012, NASA's budget was around $19 billion, less than 1% of the US budget (of which just $4 was spent on space exploration). At the same time they spent $670 billion on defence. In the year ending 2012, the UK spent £256 million on space (I don't know more recent figures); this is approximately the same as it costs the UK every 17 days for military operations in Iraq, and is less than 1% of the UK defence budget (which doesn't include Iraqi operations which are paid for out of a special fund). Edited January 12, 2014 by willoyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Wow, very interesting discussion occuring in this thread! Here's my magnificently uninformed two cents: Its not a case of we have x amount of money and we spend it on space, war, and occasionally good things. The politics behind the ways in which money is used on our world, including through charities and relief organisations, are overshadowed by the politics of the countries they deal with. A lot of poverty occurs because it works out for the well-off for those people to be poor and/or subverted. It's not right, but it's sufficiently supported by a network of the powerful to be true. In a lot of instances, not just that, the things that don't change (like war) don't change because we can't afford to or because one man is throwing all his money into it - it's a vast web of intricate, like-minded people with too much money (that we can't walk in and take from them) blowing things up with it. I'm not saying our efforts are futile - not at all, shout your ethics and donate to charities freely, but it's much more complex than just 'money goes into this and shouldn't.' To my mind there are two kinds of people. People who would progress our race and those who wouldn't. I sure as heck will not progress the race, I'm timid and anxious and poor and unmotivated. However I fully support those who would, by learning about what they do, donating to relevant things where I can, talking about stuff so people become more aware. I work on the small scale, I invest myself in people I feel are worthwhile, the sort of people I'd want to come to Mars with me if we had to abandon Earth. (I also don't have anything to do with war or football, so at least I don't endorse those things!) I firmly belief that reaching out into space is part of our natural progression. One way or another, this world is going to die, and if the human race hasn't destroyed itself by then thanks to the tiny minded people who'd rather blow each other up than explore (though it probably will), then there will come a time when up and out is our only option. At the end of the day, money will always be spent on war and football. It always will. There are enough people whose interests are invested in those things. And as long as things as pointless and mindless as those things are are a point of interest for enough people to warrant their continuation, I will always be grateful for the kinds of minds who'd rather go on an adventure into the unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 In 2012, NASA's budget was around $19 billion, less than 1% of the US budget Sadly, I was looking at those figures earlier on I read the other day that the worldwide spend on smartphone apps in 2013 was $15bn. Now that, to me, is bonkers - but then I don't have a smartphone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Me either .. I'm glad I'm not contributing to the smartphone overspend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devi Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I only bought my first smart phone in october last year, yet to buy an app for it! I only downloaded free apps, mostly related to books so i can check my lists on the go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willoyd Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Sadly, I was looking at those figures earlier on I read the other day that the worldwide spend on smartphone apps in 2013 was $15bn. Now that, to me, is bonkers - but then I don't have a smartphone About 1.5 billion smartphones round the world - so about $10, or £6, per phone. Is that a lot? Edited January 13, 2014 by willoyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 About 1.5 billion smartphones round the world - so about $10, or £6, per phone. Is that a lot? It is if those people were to give that money to charity instead of wasting it on apps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Right, time to get my thread back on track Edited January 13, 2014 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 # 3 Dead Beat (Dresden Files Book 7) by Jim Butcher 2005 - Orbit paperback - 408 pages From Amazon: Harry Dresden must save Chicago from black magic and necromancy - but first, he must locate the Word of Kemmler. Just as soon as he figures out what that is ...It's all in a day's work for the city's only professional wizard - assuming he can live to see the end of the day. Thoughts: A couple of days before Halloween, Harry gets a summons to meet Mavra. Mavra's a bad-ass vampire (and I mean seriously evil, not this sparkle-in-sunshine, fall-in-love with the pretty human rubbish that passes for a vampire these days ) from a previous book in the series. She wants Harry to bring her the Word of Kemmler. He doesn't know what it is, and she sure as hell doesn't tell him, but - if he doesn't find it by midnight on Halloween, she threatens to end Murphy's (that's Karrin Murphy, the head of Chicago PD's Special Investigations division) career. Bob (that's the spirit who lives in the skull in Harry's basement) soon tells Harry all about Kemmler, a necromancer who used to work with black magic and who had a group of followers, and Harry soon finds out that he's not the only one searching for the mysterious Word. Usually, by the seventh book in a series, things can start to wear a little thin. Not so here. In fact, I'd say this if one of the best books in the series so far, if not the best. At first appearance, the story seems to stand on its own, with various ongoing plotlines woven into it to keep the main story arcs moving. Old friends and enemies turn up, as well as some new ones, the ongoing war between the wizards' White Council and the vampires' Red Court continues in the background, and there are plenty of references to previous events. If you haven't read the previous books you'd be lost. And, by the end, it has become apparent that this seemingly separate story ties into the main plotline in a BIG - and quite clever and scary - way. And what an ending! The last hundred pages of this book are real thrill-a-minute, read-in-one-sitting, impossible-to-put-down stuff - a brilliantly orchestrated finale during a violent storm, involving all the parties after the Word of Kemmler, the Wardens, and about a billion zombies. Incidentally, I loved the way Butcher dealt with zombies, and the whole use of necromancy in general. I get the feeling Butcher was really getting into his stride here, and the whole book seems to have a more expansive scale to it whilst still generally remaining tightly plotted and impressively pace (although, unusually) there are a couple of minor dips into exposition). And of course it is full of humour that comes naturally from the characters and Dresden's laconic asides. This led to one of the amusing lines I've read recently: “I didn't know this before, but as it turns out, Tyrannosaurs can really haul ass.” As always seems to happen with this series, at the end I'm left with the urge to immediately go and buy the next book - which I will do soon. I certainly won't leave it a year like I have since the last one! 8/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 A friend just bought me a book: The Given Day by Dennis Lehane. He was telling me about it last week and was going to lend me his copy, but decided to buy it for me instead. Very kind of him, and completely unexpected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 A friend just bought me a book: The Given Day by Dennis Lehane. He was telling me about it last week and was going to lend me his copy, but decided to buy it for me instead. Very kind of him, and completely unexpected What a nice friend He sounds very confident that you'll like it .. so let's hope you do. The reviews for it look good Is this a writer you've read before Steve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Great review of Dead Beat, Steve - I really must try this series! I wish I'd bought this when I saw it in the Works, because then it would have prompted me to buy the earlier ones and get started. And zombies! That's just awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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