willoyd

It is assumed that you have read the book before reading posts in this thread, as the discussion might give away crucial points, and the continuous use of spoiler tags might hinder fluent reading of posts. Welcome to May's book circle. My apologies for the late posting, owing to my being away on a school residential for the past week or so! I think we have book that is a tremendous stimulus for discussion, so look forward to reading everybody's input. I've posted a few questions of my own to start with, but will add others later on, some from other sources. The Crimson Petal and the White by Michael Faber. Some questions to help discussion along: 1. The book is a pretty massive volume. Did you find it difficult or easy to read? Indeed, was the length inherently important to the impact of the book? 2. The book is a classic example of a story told by an omniscient narrator, one who makes it perfectly clear that they are directing what the reader 'sees' and 'hears'. What, if any, impact did this deliberately intrusive style have on your reading? 3. The depth of historical research is worn very clearly on the author's sleeve, with extensive detail in places. Did you enjoy this, did it enhance your reading, or did you find it intrusive? To what extent did it affect the story? 4. The theme for this month was 'The Great Wen' - books that included London as a character in its own right. Did Faber achieve this. If so, in what way(s), and if not, what prevented London fulfilling this role? How has your impression of Victorian London been influenced, if at all? 5. What did you think of the characters? 6. What are your feelings/views on the (at least to me!) very surprising ending?

Fair point. I certainly have some children's books I remember very fondly, but I can't think of any that I'd put in my current favourites. And you're right about some not reading much for pleasure: I'm one of only a couple of teachers at school who do that.

I read Oliver Twist for the first time last year, even though I thought I knew the story through films, musical, etc etc. Indeed the latter had put me off actually reading the book. I was pleasantly surprised: the book proved to be far superior to them all, with a depth in character, setting and plotting that I'd felt missing before. If ever I needed proof that there is no substitute for reading.....!

5. What do you think about the title - 'Wolf Hall'? Very apposite. OK it refers to the Seymours' family seat, but I think that's a minor, if cohesive, aspect. It's more to do with the nature and atmosphere of the royal court of the time. I think Hilary Mantel referred to something along those lines in one of her interviews. And, of course, that is the direction he is going through the book - towards the higher reaches of Tudor society and reception in the private home of one of the greatest families of the time. But that last bit may just be my feverish attempts at needing to find a reason....! 6. In terms of the writing, a number of reviewers felt the difficulty of too many Thomases and too many he's - that Mantel didn't make the effort to help readers through the confusion. Do you agree? Did you find other difficulties in reading the work...or did you find her prose clear... and engaging? How else might you describe Mantel's writing? It was only after I had finished the book that I even noticed that there was any sort of discussion on this topic (I read it in the first few months after it came out). Whilst reading, it had never even remotely crossed my mind. Indeed, one of the pleasures I derived from Wolf Hall was the clarity of the writing (needless to say, I was completely wrapped up in it from start to finish). I was amazed to find that it had started to build a reputation for being difficult/confusing to read in places.

My favourite Dickens so far, and one of my all time top half dozen. Glad you're enjoying it so early. He can take a bit of getting going, and it helps if you go for his descriptive prose (that first chapter on London fog is superb IMO), but the interweaving of its multitude of strands and Dickens's masterly juggling of one of the biggest cast lists I've ever come across take some beating. If ever a book stood for a genre, this stands for the big Victorian novel (although one or two others could, I admit, challenge for the part!). All it needs is time!

Yes, as a primary teacher I spend a LOT of time with children's books. That may be why I read fewer than I ever did prior to training (as a mature student) and rarely feel inclined towards reading a children's book out of school. Instead, I find I have a craving for more adult fare. That's partly why I'm so surprised.

Some of us would have put neither! (But I do agree with your disappointment at Twilight being there). Very much the other way round for me. I'm not a fantasy fan, but really enjoyed LOTR, whilst I barely made it to the end of The Hobbit. Having said that, LOTR is one of those books where I can fully understand why somebody might not like it, whilst I'm completely perplexed if that is said of, say, Jane Austen! Personally, I am surprised (as I always am) at how many children's books make this sort of list. One or two make for good adult reading, and yes, I have read and enjoyed most if not all the children's books listed at some time (mostly as a child), but amongst current favourites as an adult? Not really.

A Far Cry from Kensington by Muriel Spark *** Set in the 1950s, this is Agnes Hawkins's own retrospecctive account of her late twenties, living in a rooming house in Kensington and working in the publishing industry for a succession of the then plethora of small publishers - now mostly subsumed to the big names. This is very much a book of its time and place, mid-twentieth century London, and my favourite passages are very much where she describes people or places, such as her introductory thumbnail sketches of the residents of 14 Church End Villas, or of the employees of Ullswater and York. Simple, almost simplistic, they are masterpieces of summary, evoking detailed images in surprisingly few words. Threaded through with a number of interconnected subplots and themes, including the mystery behind the persecution of one of the rooming house's other residents, the idiosyncratic nature of the respective publishers Agnes (mainly known as Mrs Hawkins throughout the novel) works for, and the repercussions of her outspoken honesty as the effects pursue her through at least three different jobs, the writing maintains a lightness and simplicity (that word again!) that makes the book very easy to read, but also occasionally leaves it feeling almost inconsequential. This is probably a mistake: the author is almost certainly saying a whole lot more than at first appears to be the case, but, whilst I really enjoyed this book, I couldn't get away from this feeling of triviality. This seems to be the case for a number of mid-twentieth century authors of a certain type - I'm thinking for instance of Barbara Pym. I'm sure they are much better writers than this, but, whilst I enjoy their books and will continue to read them with great pleasure, I do feel that I'm not always getting the most out of them. So - pleasurable, almost addictive, but also a mite frustrating! Certainly worth some exploration though, the three stars reflecting more my immediate level of enjoyment rather than my estimation of its quality as a piece of writing, for which I would probably be more generous.

Don't get me going! Agree with you entirely. All those habits really irritate me - especially the use of words like 'gotten', and 'could of', and the upward inflection at the end of sentences. Ugh! In speech I also get really irritated by the common mispronunciation of 'aitch', as in 'haitch'. The name of the letter H does not start with an 'h'!

Glad to see that I'm not alone in not being overwhelmed by 1984, even if you are rather more positive about it than I was. Like you I enjoyed Animal Farm, but this one left me cold and really struggling to finish - in fact I never actually did in spite of several attempts. One of those books where I thought I ought to like it, but just couldn't! Can't agree with you on Gone Girl though - this was one I disliked intensely, and threw in the charity box after a hundred pages or so with some satisfaction! (I do like quite a lot of books - honest!!).

Reading notes for week ending April 13th. A week dominated by Michael Faber's The Crimson Petal and the White, which I finished on Saturday evening. I'm not going to write a review for it yet, as I want to save my comments for May's reading circle, but suffice to say that it stayed a great read to the end, an ending which took me completely by surprise. Perhaps not quite an all-time great, as i think it was marginally overlong and could have done with a little trimming, but almost there, and maybe on reflection, who knows? In the meantime, 5 out 6 stars. And that's it - no books acquired, not a lot else read outside newspapers, and not even certain what I'm going to read next! (Later edit: started A Far Cry from Kensington - Muriel Spark).

I wouldn't massively disagree with your assessments. Of what I've read of hers, my personal favourite is To The Lighthouse (which ranks amongst my all-time top five), but Mrs Dalloway is very close behind, and is the book that originally turned me on to Virginia Woolf (approached in turn via The Hours, first film - brilliant! - and then book - equally so). Squeezed in between, I'd insert The Years - often ignored, but not to be underrated, and possibly one of her more accessible stream of consciousness books if you're looking for a plot. I find Orlando fascinating, but it doesn't reach the same heights for me. Indeed, I think I might even marginally prefer the film with the wonderful Tilda Swanton - heresy!

Hi Claire and Ben I notice that you both bemoan the lack, or slowness, of the plot. TBH, if you're looking for a 'story', then Virginia Woolf is not the writer for you: her books are intensely character and setting driven, and the plot is usually really trivial (as is most of our lives). TTL in particular drills round down into the characters and the way they interact (Woolf even talks of 'mining behind the characters'). The plot? In the first third they intend to visit the lighthouse, but never do, in the second third time passes, in the second third they finally get there. And that's it!

Yes, it's also a bit of a relief: I belong to two F2F book groups, and the books since Christmas have been with one exception pretty dire, to the extent that I'm actually reviewing my membership of one of the groups, as we've yet to read anything I have remotely enjoyed since the group was set up last year (the books are chosen by the library service from a list of reading sets they have for their book groups). They're generally meant to be 'good' books, but obviously just not my scene - and life is just too short!

Reading notes for week ending April 6th. It's a fortnight or so since I added anything to this blog, and it's because of a combination of being away a fair bit over Easter, and being stuck into a biggie. I'm hosting the Reading Circle for the first time in May, and the book that's been chosen is Michel Faber's The Crimson Petal and the White, a huge doorstopper of over 800 pages. Because of the way work goes, May itself is going to be rather busy, so I thought I had better get going and take advantage of the Easter holidays. I'm glad I did - it's proving to be a really good read, and the pages, as predicted by one or two of the book's supporters on the voting and nomination threads, are slipping past with great ease. Not a lot is actually happening, but the characters are so beautifully developed and Victorian London (in all its different guises) so vividly evoked, that I hate putting it down. I'm about half way through, and wish I could devote more time to its reading. I'm glad though that I started early, as work still gets in the way! I'm being a lot better on book acquisitions - needing to slow up as the list is piling up dramatically. Just a couple of sales etc taken advantage of with books I've wanted that have been on my wishlist: The Spy Game - Georgina Harding (Kindle Daily Deal) The Great Railway Revolution - Christian Wolmar (Kindle Monthly Sale) The Great Sea - David Abulafia (Hardback - discount shop) The History of Germany since 1789 - Golo Mann (Paperback - discount shop)

1. There are many and varied historical accounts of Cromwell’s life. Did you find his portrayal as a sympathetic character surprising and believable? I studied the Tudors for A-Level, and my lasting memory of Cromwell was as one of the 'hard' men of history, who lived by the 'sword' and died by the 'sword', the sword in his case being royal politics. So, it was fascinating reading Mantel's alternative account; I found it utterly believable. Indeed, for me it made Cromwell himself more believable (if that is possible!), as I could relate to why he did what he did in a way that I never did when studying him. Now, whether that is just appealing to my 20th/21st century sensibilities or whether this is a genuinely historically likely alternative I'm not sure, but it certainly captured my imagination and kept me gripped throughout - this was a big book that never felt like a big book. I'd like to read a Tudor historian's take on the book though. 2. Do you think that Hilary Mantel successfully merges historical fact with the narrative? As far as my knowledge of Tudor history goes, yes it does, but, again, I'd like to read an expert's take on it. The problem is that most readers will not have the detailed knowledge to make a sufficiently reliable judgement - I certainly don't. Again, I'm uncertain how much simply appeals to my 21st century perspective.

No, it doesn't seem a strange choice at all - in fact it would be very much on my short list, and I'm not a Christian, being atheist. However, I think it would come down to a choice of two. If I was limited to fiction, it would probably be Les Miserables. if I could include non-fiction, it would probably be JM Roberts's The New Penguin History of the World - a huge superbly written book that would take many rereadings to absorb properly.

King Solomon's Carpet by Barbara Vine ***** I first heard of this book barely a week ago, mentioned almost in passing by Ooshie on the May Reading Circle nominations thread. The main thrust of the book, following a disparate group of individuals who make up the household of what is now an ex-schoolhouse and whose lives as Barbara Vine writes it centre around their journeys and experiences on the London Underground, was one that instantly appealed. For once this year, the book lived up to the blurb! The story is one of those where individual lives, imitially largely independent, gradually weave together, or at least interact, to contribute to a greater whole: each thread is seen very much from the point of view of whichever protagonist is being focused on at that point, enabling the author to really get her teeth into the characters, who really do come fully alive, if almost universally damaged in some way. Gradually the threads pull together, building up into an increasingly dark series of events, the last denouement being acted out on the very last page. Looming through it all is the underground itself - very much a character in its own right, and not an overly friendly one at that either, with its dark tentacles spreading throughout London, those tentacles providing the subtext to and many of the connections between events and lives. This was definitely my type of book, satisfying on pretty much every level, and sufficiently 'different' to provide a refreshing change to much of the all too predictable writing I've had to wade through lately. With an early start to the Easter break due to the arrival of excessive amounts of snow, I was able to read the last couple of hundred pages at one sitting and I loved every second. Thank you Ooshie!

The Glass Painter's Daughter by Rachel Hore **** My first book by Rachel Hore, and, whilst not exactly great literature, it proved to be a solid, thoroughly enjoyable, if rather predictable, read. It certainly came as somewhat of a relief after a number of damp squibs - mainly books that aimed high but never really worked for me. The Glass Painter's Daughter doesn't do that, looking rather to be simply a good, well balanced, story, and to that end it proved all the more satisfying by ably fulfilling its role. The format and subject material weighted the odds significantly in its favour in terms of pleasing me: the historical mystery sans thriller component, the interwoven and interconnecting stories through time, and the presence of an interesting theme which felt well researched) at its heart (in this case, stained glass!) were all elements that had instant appeal. Yes, it was a bit 'obvious' in places, particularly in terms of the characters, and, yes, it was equally sometimes a bit predictable, but overall it gelled well, and made for a very enjoyable read, which I found myself unwilling to put down. A welcome change! Tried reading Starter for Ten (David Nicholls) for my book group. Really couldn't stomach more than around 50-60 pages. I so disliked this - the 'humorous' take on a nerd's eye view on life, desperately trying to prove himself to the beautiful woman, all set in a stereotypical view of student life. Dullsville, particularly marked by some desperately shallow characterisation. I did have One Day available to read, but can't say I'm hurrying to it. Have now started, on the recommendation of Ooshie, Barbara Vine's King Solomon's Carpet. It's certainly got off to a good start, and is a completely different prospect to the Nicholls book. Like The Glass Painter's Daughter it's set in London, but here the city has a far greater role in the development of the story. Am about half way through, and thoroughly enjoying it. Looks as if it could start to twist about though! Books acquired The Scottish Nation, A Modern History - TM Devine A Quiet Flame - Philip Kerr (Kindle sale) The One from the Other - Philip Kerr (Kindle sale)

Thanks Janet; it's good to know, even if it's not good news. I have a couple of friends who both have ME, and it's brutal, so best wishes to Kay. As you say, miss her loads.

Poppyshake seems to have gone awfully quiet the last month or so. Anbody know why? Just missing one of the best personal threads on the forum!

There's a huge range of books on the subject - almost overwhelming. Ones that I've enjoyed include: England under the Tudors - GR Elton (I read this some years ago when it was the standard text on the subject. It may be a bit dated, but I remember it as being a good overall read, even if a bit of a textbook, which is what it is and was!) A History of England Volume II: The Tudors - Peter Ackroyd (as readable as Peter Ackroyd always is - a really good intro. Starts with Henry VIII though!!). Books about more specific subjects: The Defeat of the Spanish Armada - Garrett Mattingley Winter King - Thomas Penn (biog of Henry VII) The Six Wives of Henry VIII - Antonia Fraser Mary Queen of Scots - Antonia Fraser Mary Tudor - Linda Porter Elizabeth I - Anne Somerset Henry VIII - JJ Scarisbrick (more of an historical tome than, say, Starkey, but I loved it when I read it as a student, and it's still one of the best). Quite a lot of people recommend Alison Weir's books, but having found some of her books occasionally wanting on accuracy, and to be honest been rather bored by both her writing and her speaking, I can't say I'm a fan, but I'm in a minority. Starkey is a bit more sensationalist in style at times, but I still enjoy his story telling. Hope that helps.

Interesting discussion. Just a few thoughts to throw into the fire: At the risk of being labelled a book snob, I think it does matter what people read, and no, I don't subscribe to the idea that any reading is necessarily better than none: never mind the quality, feel the width! What's "better" for instance - reading a piece of pulp fiction, or watching a high quality drama on television or in the cinema, playing sport, baking a cake, or any one of a myriad of other activities? What is more likely to be a gateway (to use Bobblybear's eminently suitable expression) to more challenging/advanced/etc reading? It's not such a straightforward equation, I would suggest. The problem comes though, to my mind, when people mix up their judgements on books with their judgement on people: thus, whilst I think Dan Brown is an absolutely dreadful writer, just because someone reads his book doesn't make them some sort of lesser person for reading his books. It might say something to me about that person as a reader, but not as a whole person (I say might. I've read Dan Brown, and will have been seen reading Dan Brown. That doesn't mean I'm a Dan Brown fan). We also have to be careful as to how we measure the state of reading. For instance, all the members of my family are avid readers, both immediate (wife, offspring) and further afield (brother, sister-in-law, nieces etc). Yet, from discussion, not one of us have been inside a library to borrow a book in years. Libraries have had an important role, and may continue to do so, but there are many other ways to access reading, some far more convenient and hardly more expensive. So, how about this for another statistic, which may also say something about the state of reading in the US and UK in relation to other countries? The USA and the UK are the two largest book publishing countries in the world; the UK has consistently been the largest per capita publisher of books in the world. In 2009, according to Neilsen, UK book publishing reached a fifteen year high (I think they've only carried out their survey for the past 15 years). Nothing definitive; all I'm saying is that it's very easy to estimate that the here and now is worse than elsewhere and as it was - it may, in fact, be just be the opposite.

Possibly the book with the highest proportion of non-finishers of all time?? It's a great book and I really enjoyed what I read, but I got to a point where I realised I understood every word, but just couldn't get my head around what he was talking about: the concepts were just way beyond my ability to comprehend. Offspring, studying physics at Masters level, did finish it, and said that it was 'one hell of a read' - but even he struggled in places.

Underground, Overground by Andrew Martin **** The writer, also author of the Jim Stringer series of railway based detective mysteries, obviously has a passion for railways, and it shines through throughout this history of the London Underground. Full of fascinating stories and information, it is quite a personal take, but, having read one or two others, it appears pretty sound historically, and is certainly one of the most readable: this is very much a conversation with the reader rather than a formal 'history'. I thoroughly enjoyed it, which was certainly a relief after a string of disappointing novels. A good, solid, four stars. I had both my bookgroups this week, where we discussed the respective novels, neither of which I had rated well. Overall, the reaction to Hans Fallada's Alone in Berlin was significantly more positive than mine: out of the ten there, 2 mildly disliked it, 2 hated it (I was one!), whilst the majority remainder were of the opposite mind! Nothing I heard changed my mind, which was slightly different to the second group, where we discussed Kevin Powers's Yellow Birds. Again, the reaction was fairly mixed (and again, I was the most extreme negatively), but the discussion did get me wondering that some of my negativity might have been down to reading it directly after the Fallada book - I just wasn't set up for it. Certainly, I'm more inclined to give it a go again some time. But not right now! Which all leaves me a bit at a loose end as I really don't know what I want to read next. Whatever - I'll go and have a good browse of the bookshelves later - one thing I can be sure of, which is that this is the slowest start to a year's reading I've had for a long time, since at least before I started keeping a diary back in 2006. It's also felt very scrappy. Is this the effect of the book groups, as I've not really got stuck into many books of my own choice this year yet? Will have to wait and see I suppose. Anyway - off for a browse. Have made a couple more acquisitions lately: Blonde - Joyce Carol Oates Cloud Atlas - David Mitchell (Kindle) Polly, The True Story behind Whisky Galore - Roger Hutchinson (Kindle) Complete Works of Emile Zola (Kindle) The Telegraph Book of the Tour de France (Kindle Sale)