poppy Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Scarlett O'Hara must be one of the most unlikeable characters I have ever had the misfortune to read. I wouldn't go quite as far as saying she was one of the MOST unlikeable characters I've ever come across, but I certainly didn't warm much to her. Scarlett struck me as self-centered, manipulative and vain. The only thing I admired about her was her determination and grit when faced with adversity. My favorite character was the gentle and courageous Melanie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I found her loathsome in both books. She had grit and determination but she was the most ignorant character I've come across in a long time. If it didn't have a dollar sign in front of it, she didn't have a clue. Scarlett really lived a totally isolated (within her own dollar green filled bubble) life. Everything had to center around her. I couldn't stand her. I read the book because of the history it represented and the other characters who were more human and generous of spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I think one thing some people forget is that Scarlett was only 16 when the war broke out. Everything hit her at one time. Yes!, she was a spoiled brat to begin with, but she became very single minded to save her home. Of course it could be argued from now to the end of time whether she saved it for herself or her family. That'll never be settled to everyone's satisfaction. However, it is my opinion that those two things are really one and the same in her mind. She had to be single minded.....it was survival. I wonder just how much anyone can realize what it is to have an army come through your home and land, and tear it up, confiscate your belongings, all nice and legal. What would anyone do to survive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't go quite as far as saying she was one of the MOST unlikeable characters I've ever come across, but I certainly didn't warm much to her. Scarlett struck me as self-centered, manipulative and vain. The only thing I admired about her was her determination and grit when faced with adversity. My favorite character was the gentle and courageous Melanie. poppy...meant to say, Yes!, Melanie was really everyone's favorite, in and out of the book. Rightly so. And, thinking about that, I remember how Melly defended Scarlett, and loved her with all her heart. So, really, I think Melly saw the real Scarlett...what she would have, could have been had the war not upturned her life and surroundings. Melly was truly a wonderful woman. Edited March 24, 2014 by pontalba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Yes, things did happen to her really quickly but as you stated, she was spoiled before the war. She never wanted to learn and thought those that did, boring. I think Margaret did her damnable best to develop Scarlett and Melony as polar opposites. Melony was almost too good to be true and Scarlett was, well, Scarlett! LOL!! But the thing is, all those Southern women experienced the same thing and yet they didn't loose their "humanness." Don't get me wrong, had Scarlett been created any other way, the book would certainly be lacking but my gosh, I just can't stand her. And I'm not so sure I could deal with a perfect Melony all day, every day either! Edited March 24, 2014 by Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I wonder just how much anyone can realize what it is to have an army come through your home and land, and tear it up, confiscate your belongings, all nice and legal. What would anyone do to survive? She and Melanie coped marvelously when the Yankee deserter broke into their home. And I really admired Scarlett for how hard she worked on the land so they all could survive. poppy...meant to say, Yes!, Melanie was really everyone's favorite, in and out of the book. Rightly so. And, thinking about that, I remember how Melly defended Scarlett, and loved her with all her heart. So, really, I think Melly saw the real Scarlett...what she would have, could have been had the war not upturned her life and surroundings. Melanie loved just about everyone and always saw the best in people. It's interesting to think of what Scarlett would have turned out like if it hadn't been for the war. She was pretty frivolous and shallow before it, but as you say Pont, she was only sixteen at the start of the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 poppy...meant to say, Yes!, Melanie was really everyone's favorite, in and out of the book. Rightly so. And, thinking about that, I remember how Melly defended Scarlett, and loved her with all her heart. So, really, I think Melly saw the real Scarlett...what she would have, could have been had the war not upturned her life and surroundings. Melly was truly a wonderful woman. I think that because Melony was so good and pure she just couldn't see the bad in anyone. Kind of like Jane Bennett. Scarlett only saw the worst (except for Ashley) and Melony, only the good. Again we see how Mitchell worked with the good and evil with these two characters. Its almost all or nothing. Notice how you don't really see any middle ground in her characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknutt Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think that because Melony was so good and pure she just couldn't see the bad in anyone. Kind of like Jane Bennett. Scarlett only saw the worst (except for Ashley) and Melony, only the good. Again we see how Mitchell worked with the good and evil with these two characters. Its almost all or nothing. Notice how you don't really see any middle ground in her characters? Thinking about it (always a positive sign! ) I think M.M. made Scarlett and Melanie such opposites to mirror the "war" theme of the book. Scarlett benefitted from Melanie's sweetness and loyalty. Melanie (and other dependants) benefitted from Scarletts strength and single mindedness. Neither was actually of a likeable nature - both get on everyone's nerves for being too extreme! - but worked well together when it came to survival. Just as the North and the South were extremes of each other. Finally the "peace" which was born brought suffering for the previously rich, and problems for the previously-downtrodden slaves and "white trash" who just weren't used to handling freedom and responsibility, and problems for the "victorious" North who finally realised they'd birthed a monster. I think her message was about balance or common-sense being a good thing for everyone. O.K.,I've taken cover - fire away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Booknut, wonderful!! Definitely a perspective I hadn't looked at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Scarlett benefitted from Melanie's sweetness and loyalty. Melanie (and other dependants) benefitted from Scarletts strength and single mindedness. Absolutely right. Melly was lovely but too sickly sweet for my liking. Despite what Pont said about Melly being everyone's favourite, Scarlett was actually my favourite by a long shot. Selfish and spoilt? Yes. But her strength and determination outweighed her bad qualities, in my opinion. And she was a good person, at heart. She had genuine feelings for Melly and Rhett, despite the way she sometimes treated them. I found her to be a very likeable character. I 'got' where she was coming from. And I'd give anything to have her ability to compartmentalise her problems: 'I'll think of it tomorrow, at Tara'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) One also has to consider that if Scarlett was spoiled, something went wrong in her upbringing! Like pontalba said, I know it's easy to forget that she was only 16. I'd definitely forgotten about that! Edit: I had no idea Melanie was such a big favorite amongst the members on here. I don't remember much about her. Which means she can't have been my favorite... I don't remember if I had any favorites, to be honest. I think they all had their ups and downs and pros and cons. I wonder if I should pick this book up next. Lately I've only managed to read books I've already read at least once before... So this would fit the bill! And then I could move on to Rhett and Scarlett. Oh, wishful thinking. Thou art my enemy. Edited March 25, 2014 by frankie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yes, things did happen to her really quickly but as you stated, she was spoiled before the war. She never wanted to learn and thought those that did, boring. I think Margaret did her damnable best to develop Scarlett and Melony as polar opposites. Melony was almost too good to be true and Scarlett was, well, Scarlett! LOL!! But the thing is, all those Southern women experienced the same thing and yet they didn't loose their "humanness." Don't get me wrong, had Scarlett been created any other way, the book would certainly be lacking but my gosh, I just can't stand her. And I'm not so sure I could deal with a perfect Melony all day, every day either! There is a lot to what you say, Virginia, but a lot of Scarlett's impatience was simply due to her youth. As far as all Southern women experiencing the same. You are right, the stories are all over the place. I've just finished, for example, The Unvanquished by Faulkner.....let me just say.....Granny! Stubborn and determined as the day is long. Didn't mind breaking the law, one bit. As far as Melanie is concerned, well remember that GWTW is basically Scarlett's story, the other characters are never really explored, not their inner thoughts and depths. We haven't seen Melly aside from being with Scarlett. Same for all of them, as I recall. So, we haven't seen their "bad" sides. We were only in Scarlett's head, IOW. She and Melanie coped marvelously when the Yankee deserter broke into their home. And I really admired Scarlett for how hard she worked on the land so they all could survive. Melanie loved just about everyone and always saw the best in people. It's interesting to think of what Scarlett would have turned out like if it hadn't been for the war. She was pretty frivolous and shallow before it, but as you say Pont, she was only sixteen at the start of the book. I absolutely love that scene, both in the book and film! May be my favorite, or at least one of the favorites. I think that because Melony was so good and pure she just couldn't see the bad in anyone. Kind of like Jane Bennett. Scarlett only saw the worst (except for Ashley) and Melony, only the good. Again we see how Mitchell worked with the good and evil with these two characters. Its almost all or nothing. Notice how you don't really see any middle ground in her characters? I'd have to set and think about that a bit, but it's a good point....I can't think of any 'middling" characters. But, as I said above, we were only in Scarlett's head......not Melly or Mammy, or anyone else's. Thinking about it (always a positive sign! ) I think M.M. made Scarlett and Melanie such opposites to mirror the "war" theme of the book. Scarlett benefitted from Melanie's sweetness and loyalty. Melanie (and other dependants) benefitted from Scarletts strength and single mindedness. Neither was actually of a likeable nature - both get on everyone's nerves for being too extreme! - but worked well together when it came to survival. Just as the North and the South were extremes of each other. Finally the "peace" which was born brought suffering for the previously rich, and problems for the previously-downtrodden slaves and "white trash" who just weren't used to handling freedom and responsibility, and problems for the "victorious" North who finally realised they'd birthed a monster. I think her message was about balance or common-sense being a good thing for everyone. O.K.,I've taken cover - fire away! Excellent analogy. Absolutely right. Melly was lovely but too sickly sweet for my liking. Despite what Pont said about Melly being everyone's favourite, Scarlett was actually my favourite by a long shot. Selfish and spoilt? Yes. But her strength and determination outweighed her bad qualities, in my opinion. And she was a good person, at heart. She had genuine feelings for Melly and Rhett, despite the way she sometimes treated them. I found her to be a very likeable character. I 'got' where she was coming from. And I'd give anything to have her ability to compartmentalise her problems: 'I'll think of it tomorrow, at Tara'. Well, Scarlett is my favorite, hands down. The woman had, er, testicles. More than some of the men around. I can love Melly for her sweetness, and her loyalty.....and as I've said above, we don't really know her inner workings because Mitchell didn't tell us those. Drat it! Frankie, the book, Scarlett isn't worth picking up with tongs, but the book Rhett's People is pretty good. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I haven't done Rhett's People yet. Wish there was one written from Mammy's perspective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 One also has to consider that if Scarlett was spoiled, something went wrong in her upbringing! Like pontalba said, I know it's easy to forget that she was only 16. I'd definitely forgotten about that! Edit: I had no idea Melanie was such a big favorite amongst the members on here. I don't remember much about her. Which means she can't have been my favorite... I don't remember if I had any favorites, to be honest. I think they all had their ups and downs and pros and cons. I wonder if I should pick this book up next. Lately I've only managed to read books I've already read at least once before... So this would fit the bill! And then I could move on to Rhett and Scarlett. Oh, wishful thinking. Thou art my enemy. Ahh, re Scarlett's upbringing. Remember her mother was somewhat detached. The one good thing I remember about the book, Scarlett, was that it fleshed out the brief hints about Ellen's background and how she came to marry Gerald O'Hara. We know from GWTW, it was a mismatch, to say the least. I believe Ellen was actually grieving for her lost love for her whole life, and was unable to give her children or husband the love they needed. Not really her fault, that was the way she was built, but what a shame. I haven't done Rhett's People yet. Wish there was one written from Mammy's perspective! Oh, yeah! I'd like that too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Frankie, the book, Scarlett isn't worth picking up with tongs, but the book Rhett's People is pretty good. IMO Haha Well I own a copy of both so I'm definitely determined to read them, we'll see what happens when I get to them Even though the original book is so long, I wanted to read more on the subject, so even though Scarlett might be really bad, at least it's about the same characters etc. Ahh, re Scarlett's upbringing. Remember her mother was somewhat detached. As much as I loved the book, I have to say I remember very little of it Maybe someone ought to write a book on the subject from the point of view of Scarlett's mother If she was detached... Maybe it would be something like Virginia Woolf's novels: no head or tail (I'm only kidding and caricaturizing. I haven't read enough Woolf to know much at all about her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 According to the story, her mother married Mr. O'hara because he would take her away from sorrow. Her father was a mean old git and her mother was also detached and haughty. But her biggest reason for leaving was a broken heart. She loved a cousin who disappeared. While she loved her family, I don't think she would ever have that burning love for anyone else. Propriety and appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseCat Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I'm among those who dislike the book. I only read it after a dental surgery when there was nothing left to read in the house. (Someone had given a copy to my mother.) I find Scarlett pretty despicable, but identified with her whenever she found that her mother's ideals were useless in practical terms. It was attempted to make me into a "nice little woman" - I've never stopped resisting. But there's no need to be so overtly obnixious with it. And somehow I can't help thinking it's mostly hype - the emperor's new clothes. No use for the film either. The acting, especially the women's, wasn't even remotely convincing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timebug Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I eventually saw the film when I was in my late forties,having avoided it for the previous years; then I tried the book. The film I managed to get through, and found parts of it really good. The book,on the other hand, i simply could not get into. Life being too short,and there being many other good books out there, I just moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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