Self publishing on Kindle - a good or bad thing?

[Michelle]

Ok, so I know we've had discussions in the past about self publishing, but with the popularity of the kindle, it seems to be on the increase, so I thought it would be interesting to see what we think.

 

I've reviewed quite a few self published books in the past, and some have been really good. But, I have to say that the majority were either not very good, or gave the impression they could be better with some good editing input. However, I also understand that it's not easy to find an agent or publisher, and sometimes the only way to get published is to do it yourself.

 

Over the past few months, I have seen a big increase in the number of review requests for self published books in .pdf form. Not one has seemed that interesting, and the covers and websites haven't installed much confidence. So, does this mean that the quality is low, or that these books are missing out on clever marketing?

 

I know of one success story.. Linda Gillard is a fairly popular writer, and is well known here, but she has found it impossible to get a publisher recently. Her first ebook, House of Silence, has been a success, selling in really good numbers, and has been well received by readers. But is that the norm, or are we seeing an influx of poor quality books with just a few good ones? Self publishing, as far as I know, previously needed quite a financial input, but the kindle now makes it's cheaper.. if not free. Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?

[Ben]

I think it's great that it gives the opportunity for there to be a gem found within the rough; but of course that's the crux of the problem. The numbers are huge for people turning to Kindle self-publishing, and although I wouldn't begrudge people putting out their work it seems that a high percentage of the books that are churned out are quite poor. All in all I think their needs to be something done about the sheer numbers of books going through the self-publishing system, otherwise it's just going to become over-run. Although I really don't have a clue what they could do.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Ben

[Kell]

I've found some self published authors who turned out to be complete gems - but I didn't pay for them - I was sent the books for review. Now, I keep my eyes peeled for more by those authors - I've been anxiously awaiting further works by Andrew E Shipley after finding his debut self-published novel (The Messenger) to be nothing short of brilliant. (Sorry, but I just HAVE to leave a link to it in the hope that it will encourage someone else to read it too!*).

 

If I had a Kindle, I would be very inclined to give some of the self-published authors a try as I'm sure that if there is one gem, then there are others, and they need all the support they can get. And when they self publish using Kindle, they get all the profits from the sale, no matter how large or small, which is a great improvement on having to charge more for a physical book and getting only a small percentage of the returns for your work.

 

My only hope/wish is that more self-published authors would take the time and care to get a professional, or at least experienced, proof reader in, as there are often myriad errors in the form of spelling, grammar, plot holes and layout that crop up and the author doesn't seem to notice. Fresh eyes are always a good idea!

 

* Incidentally, it's also available on Kindle now.

[Linda Gillard]

Michelle, you & other forum members might be interested to know about a new blog, KINDLE AUTHORS UK which has been set up by professional authors who share your concerns about quality and want to point readers in the direction of good, professionally produced, indie e-books at a reasonable price. The authors blog by invitation only and you can be assured that any books featured on the site will be as good as anything produced by a print publisher. There are lists of books Under £1 & Under £2. Adult, children's and YA books are featured. (I'll be blogging there on Aug 11th about how I came to publish my 4th novel, HOUSE OF SILENCE as an e-book.)

 

My advice to Kindle owners who want to avoid unedited dross is always download the free sample chapter. The other thing I'd sugggest is that you find out if the author you're interested in has a professional track record. Has this e-book been print-published years ago? If it's new, has the author been print-published before? That could be an indicator of quality.

 

There are now loads of experienced authors who, like me, are unable to find publishers or who want to keep their backlist in print, so we've gone down the e-book route. Many authors are unable to find publishers because what we write doesn't fit the very limited genre pigeonholes that publishers use. HOUSE OF SILENCE was deemed "unmarketable" because it wasn't a straight romance and publishers don't like mixed genre novels. (But it's sold over 10,000 so far!) I'm e-publishing my next new novel, UNTYING THE KNOT in September because once again, editors liked it, but didn't like the way it mixed several genres. This is not something that bothers readers at all, but it troubles marketing departments who, since the demise of Borders, now have to get Tesco and WHS on board, otherwise a book is sunk.

 

I know a lot of Kindle owners are suspicious of very cheap/free books but price is no indication of quality. I'm selling HoS at £1.90 which might sound like I'm giving it away, but at that price I'm actually making twice as much as I used to make from my publisher-produced paperbacks! The difference now is that an indie Kindle e-book makes money for its author and Amazon, not the publisher and retailer.

 

So don't be wary of books under £2. It's very easy for an author to reduce the price of an e-book, then put it up again, so you'll find authors doing this to give sales a boost. If the book is out-of-print backlist, s/he might be bringing it out and pricing it cheaply to keep the book "out there" and available to new readers. I've done this with EMOTIONAL GEOLOGY, published in 2005 but long out of print. I've e-published and priced it at 86p, just because I want it to be available to the many new readers who have discovered me via HOUSE OF SILENCE.

 

I hope this "insider info" helps you make better informed choices about your book-buying, so you get better value for money.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Linda Gillard
fixed link

[Kell]

That's great to know - and I, for one,will be off t ohave a look at that blog right about now.

[Easy Reader]

Its not unusual to hear of authors having been turned down by publishers time and time again and then a few of those finally being published and turning out to be a great success whereas others carry on trying when they are perhaps just wasting their time. Authors being able to self publish like this is in my opinion an unofficial peoples choice award, where we as readers can now “vote” for ourselves what we want to read which hopefully will result in better/popular authors getting fast tracked into being published and will perhaps give those less popular authors a hint that they either aren’t doing something right and need to make a few or changes or should perhaps think about a career change.

[Kell]

JK Rowling herself was turned down by a dozen publishers before being picked up by Bloomsbury, so being turned away is no indicator of how well a book (or indeed, a whole series!) can do. More and more authors are turning to self-publishing - even those who are well established are self-publishing for the Kindle and I think that's great. It's opening up their work to a whole new audience who find e-books far mre affordable than physical books and the authors are pulling in more of their well-deserved profits. It's a win-win situation there.

[Linda Gillard]

Authors being able to self publish like this is in my opinion an unofficial peoples choice award, where we as readers can now “vote” for ourselves what we want to read

 

 

I agree, Easy Reader. This publishing revolution - and it is nothing less - has handed power back to the readers. You can make or break! You might have thought you were doing that before, but actually you weren't. The most powerful person in publishing was the chief bookbuyer at Tesco. There were various arbiters of taste, like Tesco, WHS and Richard & Judy who decided effectively what got published (because editors were always on the lookout for the next "Richard & Judy" winner) and those very powerful people were controlling what you as readers got to choose from. It was almost the Henry Ford scenario: "You can have any colour you like, so long as it's black."

 

With the indie e-book revolution, the downside is wading through all the rubbish, but we always had to do that. (And how many over-hyped books disappointed?...) There's now much more rubbish about, but we do get sample chapters.

 

The upside is so much more choice - and it's cheap choice. But unlike the "2 for a fiver" supermarket deals, the people who wrote the books are the ones making the money. Which is surely right?

 

So now some well-established authors are leaving their publishers (and many more are thinking about it) because they want to make money for themselves, not publishers and retailers. (I'm blogging about this on Thursday at Kindle Authors UK.) Publishers are now very worried and are devising ways to retain authors. I was at a writers' conference recently and spoke to authors who had been offered (and in one case signed) a 6-book contract! This is to prevent authors defecting in future. (The norm hitherto has been a 2-book contract, maybe 3 if you were writing a series of genre fiction.)

[Linda Gillard]

It took Mark Haddon's agent 4 years to find a publisher for A CURIOUS INCIDENT OF THE DOG IN THE NIGHT-TIME. Editors weren't sure if it was a book for adults or YA and wouldn't take a chance. I collect examples of bone-headed rejection letters sent to now famous authors. Here's a few...

 

'You are welcome to Le Carré - he hasn't got any future.' (Rejecting The Spy Who Came in from the Cold.)

 

'We are not interested in science fiction which deals with negative utopias. They do not sell.' (Carrie by Stephen King)

 

‘It does not seem to us that you have been wholly successful in working out an admittedly promising idea.’ (Lord of the Flies by William Golding.)

 

'It is impossible to sell animal stories in the USA.' (Animal Farm by George Orwell)

[Michelle]

I think there's a big place for good, independent blogs and reviews. I'm personally losing faith in reviews in places like amazon, after hearing so many stories of people getting friends to write stunning reviews, paying for them etc. It's very disheartening seeing the amount of people we catch on here, promoting this fantastic book they've just found - and then they turn out to be the author.

 

Giving good writers an opportunity is great, but we need ways to find those writers in amongst everyone else.

 

Linda, thank you for your input, it's always interesting.

[Talisman]

Yes thank you too Linda, you have written far more eloquently and succinctly what I have been saying for years ! On that note, I must get round to Kindleising my own book !

Edited August 9, 2011 by Talisman

[Kylie]

A very interesting conversation. Thanks for the inside knowledge, Linda. Regarding those rejection letters, it makes you wonder just how many brilliant novels have never seen the light of day because one person in one publishing company didn't like it. I hate that my reading is 'dictated' by such a small group of people.

[Nollaig]

I don't have a kindle. That pretty much ends the debate for me.

 

I don't really know how I feel about it. I certainly don't want to wade through even MORE rubbish, and I think it's unfair to the genuinely good authors just having a tough time getting a break that their work could be swamped by rubbish.

 

That said, I tend to be a backseat reader anyway - I don't tend to pick up ANYTHING I haven't already seen read and reviewed on this forum or possibly Amazon from time to time. I never go into bookshops and pick up new books by new authors, because chances are I won't end up liking them. So I suppose the same could easily apply to a kindle if I ever got one - I'd just ask you lot for recommendations!

[Linda Gillard]

Nollaig, it doesn't end the debate unless you want it to. The Kindle app is free to download and use on Mac, PC, iPhone, iPad, Android and Blackberry. I understand you might not want to read on a screen, but you don't have to own a Kindle to read Kindle books, although a lot of people think this is the case.

[Linda Gillard]

I think Amazon has got the message about the quantities of rubbish being self-published. Amazon.com have now set up a Kindle Indie Books store to help buyers navigate their way through the vast numbers of e-books being published. It's still not going to be a guarantee of quality because they say "The likelihood of appearing within the Kindle Indie Bookstore is higher for highly rated, popular and top selling books." (Note the absence of any reference to quality of writing or editing.)

 

But it's a step in the right direction. It's also a huge validation for indie authors like me that Amazon thinks indie books are actually worth promoting. I hope AmazonUK will follow Amazon.com's example and give UK Kindle authors this shop window.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Linda Gillard

[Talisman]

About time if you ask me - I understand what people mean when they say that a lot of self published stuff is rubbish, but and I know it a big but (as opposed to butt - I have one of them as well!), it is very much subjective, and one man's junk is another man's treasure. I am not saying that anyone on here is like that, but there are a lot of people who automatically assume that anything self published must be rubbish without even looking at it - that is patently absurd. This is what I mean when I say it is about time that some of the big boys in publishing started to take us seriously, when you see that happening then you know that things really are changing.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Talisman

[marcus giovanni]

kindle is amazing in so many ways

heping budding writers and discovering diamond in the rough

but you can't compare the feeing of flipping the pages between you hands and reading off a ...screen

[rand00]

I think that quality must win. Book spam is the real problem with Kindle.

[Talisman]

What do you mean by book spam ?

[vodkafan]

Yes thank you too Linda, you have written far more eloquently and succinctly what I have been saying for years ! On that note, I must get round to Kindleising my own book !

 

That sounds like the way to go Talisman!

 

I know Linda Gillard did not come on this thread to advertise, but because of this thread I have just been to Amazon and downloaded 3 of her books for less than a fiver total ! Emotional Geology has been on my wish list for a while.

 

One question, how do you know if a kindle book has been self published or not?

[Talisman]

By checking to see who the publisher is on the books page - there are certain publishers like Lulu, Authorhouse and so on that you know are self publishers. I don't really understand why anyone would want to check this anyway though, as if the book interests you then it shouldn't matter if it is self published or not, the writing should be allowed to speak for itself. On the other hand, if you are specifically want self published books (or as they are sometimes called these days, independantly published books) then Amazon have their own Indie book store where you can find loads of them - if you subscribe to the Kindle newsletter you will get details of some of them in there.

[Michelle]

VF, Linda is a rare breed - she comes along to the forum to actually take part, rather than trying to simply advertise.

[Linda Gillard]

... because of this thread I have just been to Amazon and downloaded 3 of her books for less than a fiver total ! Emotional Geology has been on my wish list for a while.

 

 

I just dropped into this thread again and saw this. Thank you, vodkafan! :-) I do hope you enjoy the downloads.

 

I haven't looked to see if you have a similar thread here on BCF but there's a thread on READ IT, SWAP IT forum that posts details of Kindle bargains - mainstream books that have been reduced for a limited period. It's a good way to keep up to date with the good deals.

[davidtye]

Self publishing is a good thing. It is opening up the book market to all those who wish to write a book but have never had the opportunity too because they can't find a publisher or keep getting rejected by publishers.

Until self publishing became a reality the publishing market was completely controlled by publishers who, in their wisdom have in effect controlled what we read.

 

One author wrote a book which was rejected three hundred times by publishers. The author finally went the self publishing route a few years ago and has had great success.

I do understand that the quality may not always be up to standard but self publishing authors won't normally be able to afford external editing input.

 

Overall I feel anything that helps people achieve their goals is certainly a good thing.

 

David J Tye

[Kell]

Self publishing in ANY medium is only a good thing if the author has incredibly high standards of editing and proof reading, preferably from an independent source. Too many self-publishers have sent their work out into the world filled with spelling and gramatical errors, syntax errors, and gaping plot holes, not to mention non-existant editing and that is what has made so many readers avoid them like the plague. If writers want to turn that around, then they have to hold themselves to exactingly high standards and do a hell of a lot of promotion through such tools as blog tours and giveaways, as well as offering some of their e-book work for free as a taster example to draw readers in.

 

There are a LOT of brilliant self-published authors out there, unfortunately they get tarred with the same brush as the ones who just whack out a load of crap because they THINK themselves brilliant when they clearly are lacking.