Kell Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 THREAD NOW OPEN It is assumed that you have read the book before reading posts in this thread, as the discussion might give away crucial points, and the continuous use of spoiler tags might hinder fluent reading of posts. Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons Synopsis from Amazon "Watchmen" redefined superhero conventions and re-introduced comics to an adult audience with a gripping, labyrinthine piece of comic art. Rorschach, a half-psychotic vigilante must convince his ex team-mates, now middle-aged and retired, that he has uncovered a plot to murder the remaining superheroes - along with millions of innocent civilians...Even reunited, will the remnants of the 'Watchmen' be enough to avert a global apocalypse? With a powerful storyline masterfully told by comics supremo Alan Moore and beautifully rendered artwork by the talented Dave Gibbons - this is the one that started the graphic novel revolution and is definitely not one to miss! Some basic questions to consider: 1. Who was your favourite character and why? 2. Was there a particular part you enjoyed/disliked more than the rest? 3. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? 4. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with? 5. What did you think of the artwork in this graphic novel? 6. Is this your first experience with a graphic novel and, overall, did you find it an enjoyable experience? 7. Did you find reading this graphic novel more difficult or easier than reading a regular novel Wy? 8. Do you think this would have worked as well as a regular novel? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Is anyone else reading this graphic novel? I'll admit that due to being very busy I only started it last night, but I'm loving it already! Rorschach seems to be an interesting character - I'll be interested to see how he develops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I read this in the early Nineties, then again two years ago. I LOVED IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Have dug my copy out and will be starting in the next day or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm up to chapter 6 and thoroughly enjoying it. I find myself scouring each panel carefully to pick up clues so I don't miss anything. Ohhh, I think I may have just put a couple of pieces of the puzzle together! Unrelated: I picked up a continuity error in the first chapter. At first I thought it might be something pertinent to the story, but I've since decided it was just an error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Ooh, what was it, Kylie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I was reluctant to say in case it did somehow become part of the story, but I don't see how it possibly can be, so... In chapter 1, in Hollis Mason's excerpt at the end, the caption to the photo on p 2 indicates that Mason was aged 21 in 1928. On the next page, he says he turned 17 in 1933, which would have made him 12 in 1928. Maybe it's just a typo. I'm nearly at the end of chapter 8 now. It's so intriguing! I have to admit that I'm finding all the text at the end of each chapter a little tedious, but that's mostly because I'm anxious to get on with the story and I don't like being held up! Regarding the story within a story that starts, I think, from chapter 3, I love the way that the text within the comic that the kid is reading sometimes seems to correspond with what's happening in the 'real world'. What I mean is, you can read the 'comic' text as a commentary on what is happening in the world outside of that comic. The 12-part animated series of Watchmen has been screening on TV here for at least a few weeks and I'm now kicking myself that I didn't show more of an interest and record it from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooshie Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I was a bit late starting Watchmen due to being distracted by The Thirteenth Tale at a vital moment, but I am just starting Chapter Five now, and am really enjoying it. I recorded the film over the holidays, but can't decide whether watching it will enhance or spoil my enjoyment of the book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^ I've been told to read it first as the film is different from the book. I started last night and am up to the end of chapter 3. Very good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) 1. Who was your favourite character and why? A difficult choice, but probably Rorschach. I think he had the most depth of character, and although he was quite brutal, I think his heart was roughly in the right place. 2. Was there a particular part you enjoyed/disliked more than the rest? One aspect I really loved was the stories within stories, and the way they seemed to parallel what was happening in the main story. I got a little frustrated with the last few pages of text at the end of each chapter, but that's really only because I was impatient to get on with the story. They did provide interesting back stories though. 3. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? This is my first by Alan Moore, and I already have V for Vendetta on my wish list, not least because it's part of my dystopian challenge. I'm looking forward to it even more now. 4. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with? Not really, no. 5. What did you think of the artwork in this graphic novel? Loved it! I was poring over every single panel to ensure I didn't miss a thing. I liked the way, for example, that a series of panels would sort of zoom in or out on a particular scene. There are other things I loved too, and I'm not sure if these techniques are commonly used in all graphic novels, but I really appreciated everything used in this one. 6. Is this your first experience with a graphic novel and, overall, did you find it an enjoyable experience? Not my first experience, but near enough to it. I found it thoroughly enjoyable and will definitely search out other graphic novels. Edited January 6, 2011 by Kylie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWords Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm going to take it that everyone has read this by now, though there's still spoilers used in case people haven't completed the book yet. 1. Who was your favourite character and why? Despite the attention lauded on Rorschach, I was much more taken with the slow displacement Dr. Manhattan displays throughout the story. His alienation from his friends, then finally humanity as a whole, is something which is immensely enjoyable to watch played out in increments. The numerous ways in which his status as an outsider is highlighted (admittedly, he doesn't really help himself by failing to comprehend some of the emotions his behavior and appearance elicits), and the way he analyzes events in more dimensions than humanly possible, yet still has some of the failings as everyone else makes him more real than, say, Superman or the ilk. 2. Was there a particular part you enjoyed/disliked more than the rest? The background details were the most interesting aspect for me. Reading through the additional material gives the characters more weight than the text on its' own, and has a few nice allusions to comics of the past. There's also a lot to be said for the single best line in eighties comics: "Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago." 3. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? This is far from my first exposure to Alan Moore's writing. Actually, I have read most of his work, from the 2000AD strips, through the Miracleman era, on to his US work. I would definitely keep seeking out his work, even despite struggling through his rather difficult prose novel, Voice Of The Fire (I know the opening chapter is meant to be complex, but it went a bit too far in the wrong direction). 4. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with? Only because of my own obsessive nature, though I was glad to note that the pieces where it appeared to be random eventually pulled together. There is a sequence where a bottle of perfume floats through space, and - after half an hour or working out the star positions - it does seem that the rotation is properly rendered. Being that comics rely equally on prose and artwork, these details really do matter. I'll also admit to having gone back and forth to make sure the sequences where a) events were foreshadowed, and b) flashbacks reveal events matched up. The level of detail is really impressive given how simple the process of comic-book creation was in the 80s. 5. What did you think of the artwork in this graphic novel? Quite simply some of the most beautiful artwork Dave Gibbons has ever produced. Right up there with Brian Bolland and Neal Adams. 6. Is this your first experience with a graphic novel and, overall, did you find it an enjoyable experience? Not my first experience, but definitely one of the best. This is my first by Alan Moore, and I already have V for Vendetta on my wish list, not least because it's part of my dystopian challenge. Be aware that V For Vendetta is a much denser work than Watchmen, and is quite a bit longer. It's well worth the read, but a lot of people struggle with it if they don't give it the time it deserves. Vendetta is also packed with much more references to literature than anything else Moore has done, save (perhaps) from The Black Dossier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Be aware that V For Vendetta is a much denser work than Watchmen, and is quite a bit longer. It's well worth the read, but a lot of people struggle with it if they don't give it the time it deserves. Vendetta is also packed with much more references to literature than anything else Moore has done, save (perhaps) from The Black Dossier. Thanks for the info. I don't mind dense. In fact I would prefer it for this type of story. I'd also like to read The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'd also like to read V for Vendetta and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as well as 300 - I find I'm becoming more and more drawn to graphic novels (hence my choice of theme for this month!). I'm actually still on Chapter 1, as I'm only getting to read it in bed at night (and as I get to bed very late, I only get a few pages at a time), but I am loving the artwork and the story. Please, everyone, don't worry about posting spoilers, as it says right there in the first post that it is assumed that anyone coming into the thread has already read the book so anyone looking before finishing it does so at their own risk. Everyone should feel free to discuss any and all elements of the chosen book, no matter how far on in the proceedings they occur. Personally, I never mind spoilers anyway, as I find it gives me some extra element to look forward to while I'm reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbielleRose Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'd still like to get in on this one but the bookstore was out of copies so I had to specially order one. It'll be here in the next few days, hopefully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Just hit half-way, liking it so far, though it is pretty grim. I have a sneaky suspicion that is going to be one of those books that you will get more out of the second time through . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I had a peak at the animated series this morning and must say I was pretty disappointed! It's just the panels from the graphic novel with a tiny bit of motion thrown in. Not much animation at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'm finding the repetition interesting when Dr Manhatten goes to Mars - like he's stuck ina loop of time over and over again. Strangely, rather than becoming bored with it, I really enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Read a large chunk last night. It's possible I may just finish this today, but I don't want to be up until 3am again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Finished! I need to gather my thoughts sleep, but I will be back in the next day or so with some postage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm almost half way through now, but found I wasn't awfully keen on the bits where the guy was reading the comic book and the bits from that comic were cropping up in Watchmen. I know it was running parallel to the story, but I found it rather distracting and I'll admit I only skimmed the text-heavy bit related to it at the end of the chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 DO NOT READ THIS POST IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE BOOK! You've been warned! 1. Who was your favourite character and why? Good lord, you start with the easy one's don't you?! I'm really not sure "favourite" is a term that can be applied to characters that can be described as morally ambiguous at best, and should probably just be labelled out-and-out psychopaths or nut jobs! I suppose the most likeable characters in the book are Daniel Dreiberg (Nite Owl II) and Laurie Juspeczyk (Silk Spectre II), struggling to come to terms with the legacies they have both inherited, but they just don't have the same depth to them as likes of Rorschach, The Comedian or Dr. Manhattan. If pushed, I would probably have to say Rorschach, simply because you get to find out more about him, and you get a better insight into his motives - screwed up though they are - than with any of the other characters. There is even a part of me that started to like the character, as he eventually started to show a more human side, but man, really he is one f***** up head case . . . 2. Was there a particular part you enjoyed/disliked more than the rest? I think Chapter VI: The Abyss Gazes Also is probably the most interesting sequence in the book, as Dr. Long tries to get inside the head of Rorschach and ultimately finds it's not a place he wants to go anywhere near. It is slightly predictable; the psychiatrist who stares into the heart of evil and starts to lose himself, but it was well done. The part I dislike the most would have to be the end. All along the story - with the exception of Dr. Manhattan and his abilities - was more or less grounded in the real world, but the "alien attack" at the end seemed so implausible - in or out of context - that I found it ultimately jarring. 3. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? This isn't my first Alan Moore graphic novel - the other I have read is the excellent The Killing Joke, a Batman story about the origins of the Joker and having a bad day. Watchmen, though, is very different from the graphic novels I have read in the past. There is much more meat on it's bones, but at the end of the day I've been left wondering whether it is more hype than substance. I think if I read another Alan Moore graphic novel any time soon it will probably be a re-read of this one! 4. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with? Like others (from a quick skim through this thread) I found the three or four pages of text at the end of each chapter were sometimes a bit of a struggle. I think, in the context of the weekly issues they were originally published, those pages would have been more interesting, but in a graphic novel format they slowed the pace considerably and just seem to get in the way (despite giving a lot of useful and interesting information). I think any re-read will start with a run through of the graphic section first followed by a re-read of the appendix like text pages after. I also found the pirate story a bit hard-going in places, and not just because of the graphic content. I’m still struggling to see its full relevance to the main plot. I can see quite a few reflections of the main story as it goes along, but there are parts where its meaning - if there is one - escapes me. 5. What did you think of the artwork in this graphic novel? The artwork, to a point, feels quite dated by the standards of the artwork and inking you generally get in comic books today, but I think that helps to remind the reader of the time in which the story is set. The detail in the panels though*, and the thought that has gone into the layout is superb. * It took me a little while to work out that the cafe where Daniel and Lauire meet, Rorschach's bin drop and the newsstand are all on the same junction, for example. 6. Is this your first experience with a graphic novel and, overall, did you find it an enjoyable experience? I've been reading comics and graphic novels for years, although until now they have usually been franchise titles such as Batman and Star Wars etc. I'm not sure enjoyable is quite the right term for Watchmen. Engaging, interesting, fascinating and thought provoking are, but I'm not sure I entirely liked reading it! ------- To be honest, I think I really need to read this again to get the most out of it, as there is so much detail I’m sure I missed loads. Overall, I found it interesting, but in some respects I came away feeling it is hyped more than is actually warranted. As I said above, the ending doesn’t sit well with me at all. Having either Dr. Manhattan or Ozymandias as the villain of the piece was a given by the time half the book was gone, but the ending seems to at odds with the rest of the story and far too fantastical. I was expecting a grim ending, and to a point that is what I got, but I’m not sure at this point what the message of the story was (the ends justify the means perhaps?). But then maybe that is typical for a story that asks so many questions and leaves so many unanswered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I was reluctant to say in case it did somehow become part of the story, but I don't see how it possibly can be, so... In chapter 1, in Hollis Mason's excerpt at the end, the caption to the photo on p 2 indicates that Mason was aged 21 in 1928. On the next page, he says he turned 17 in 1933, which would have made him 12 in 1928. Maybe it's just a typo. It's a typo I'm afriad, the caption under the 1928 picture in my copy says 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 [/b]... Chapter VI: The Abyss Gazes Also... The first thought that jumped into myhead when I saw that chapter title was, "Thank Gods - someone finally got the quote right!" The amount of times I see it as "also gazes" is just not real and it always annoys me. It made me respect the work even more, just for getting those two words in the correct order - is that weird of me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^ OCD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 ^ OCD? Perhaps slightly, yes - LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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