Shakespeare read-along

[KEV67]

My book says George Bernard Shaw did not like it, nor Samuel Johnson. The poet Keats said it was his favourite Shakespeare play iirc. So far the best bit for me was Iachimo getting out of his trunk to have a good look at the sleeping Innogen. I have not come across any famous quotes yet. I still have Acts 4 & 5 to read. Personally, I do not really get Shakespeare, and have difficulty telling his good plays from his bad plays. In the last three years I read a history, Richard II, a tragedy, Othello, and a comedy, A Midsummer Night's Dream in order to understand, and even like Shakespeare. I still cannot see what the fuss is about. That said, I can still remember the opening lines of MacBeth, which I did for O level 40 years ago.

[lunababymoonchild]

I've always loved Shakespeare and have seen performed (film, TV and in the theatre) other plays that I haven't read. I did Macbeth and Hamlet at school and was captivated by both. I also read his sonnets from time to time. I am disappointed that I'm not really getting this one but there is no point in my trying to force it, that would achieve nothing.

Edited August 20, 2022 by lunababymoonchild

[Hayley]

On 8/19/2022 at 12:07 PM, lunababymoonchild said:

I'm pulling out of this. The play just doesn't hold my interest.

That’s totally fair. I can see why it isn’t one of the more popular plays. In some ways it feels like a combination of ideas from other plays to me? 
 

On 8/10/2022 at 3:27 PM, KEV67 said:

There was a bit of fruity language in Act 2 Scene 3. When Victorians revived the play I wonder if they cut that out.

I don’t think they would have, they liked the shocking bits 😄

 

On 8/9/2022 at 10:45 AM, KEV67 said:

 

I thought Iachimo was going to rape Innogen

 

I actually thought that might be where it was going too! Absolutely was not expecting him to be in the box!! 
 

Poor Imogen is just getting one bad thing after another in this story! 

[KEV67]

Scene 4.2 was rather long. I was sorry about Cloten. I was just beginning to like him.

[KEV67]

On 8/21/2022 at 11:59 AM, Hayley said:

That’s totally fair. I can see why it isn’t one of the more popular plays. In some ways it feels like a combination of ideas from other plays to me? 
 

I 😄

There are bits and pieces from his other plays. Mistaken identities, drugged sleep, sexual jealousy. I have not read King Lear, but it is set in a similar era. Several of Shakespeare's plays are about Romans. Quite a number feature Italians.

 

It is difficult to imagine what Cymbeline's court is like. It is Iron Age Britain. The Romans have not yet conquered. For a royal residence it is probably not very grand.

[Hayley]

3 hours ago, KEV67 said:

There are bits and pieces from his other plays. Mistaken identities, drugged sleep, sexual jealousy. I have not read King Lear, but it is set in a similar era. Several of Shakespeare's plays are about Romans. Quite a number feature Italians.

It doesn't really remind me of King Lear, I was thinking a little bit Merchant of Venice and a little bit Romeo and Juliet!

 

On 8/21/2022 at 10:49 PM, KEV67 said:

Scene 4.2 was rather long. I was sorry about Cloten. I was just beginning to like him.

I haven't read it yet but I feel like something drastic will have to happen soon to make me like Cloten!

[KEV67]

I wonder whether it was supposed to be pronounced Kymbeline or Symbeline? I am guessing Kymbeline as 'C' was always hard in classical Latin. I am not sure about Welsh names.

 

I read Tennyson liked the play. He was holding a copy of it when he died.

 

Apparently Virginia Woolf quoted it in Mrs Dalloway, although I do not remember. The author of the introduction. Valerie Wayne, says Jane Eyre was influenced by the story. A young woman goes out into the country to protect her honour and happens upon her closest relatives.

[Hayley]

18 hours ago, KEV67 said:

I wonder whether it was supposed to be pronounced Kymbeline or Symbeline? I am guessing Kymbeline as 'C' was always hard in classical Latin. I am not sure about Welsh names.

That's a really good point. I just checked on the Royal Shakespeare Company website and they pronounce it Symbeline.

 

They also have Act 2, Scene 2 free to watch and it is super creepy in performance - reading it put me slightly on edge but it's definitely more tense to watch: 

 

 

[KEV67]

45 minutes ago, Hayley said:

That's a really good point. I just checked on the Royal Shakespeare Company website and they pronounce it Symbeline.

 

They also have Act 2, Scene 2 free to watch and it is super creepy in performance - reading it put me slightly on edge but it's definitely more tense to watch: 

 

 

She's a deep sleeper.

[KEV67]

A battle was described in Act 5.3. I think we lost, but Arviragus, Guiderius and Belarius put up a good show. Where did Shakespeare get these names from?

Anyway, from reading the introduction, I gather the best bits (apart from Iachimo getting out of his box) is in the last two scenes. Some of it is a bit A.E. Housemanish I thought.

[KEV67]

Scene 5.4 was the most curious so far. Not sure what to make of the dream sequence. The verse meter (if that's what it is) changed. I did like the jolly jailer though.

[Hayley]

I'm a bit behind but I still can't work out why you started to like Cloten!

[KEV67]

Finished, I made a mistake. Apparently we won, but King Cymbeline decided to pay the Roman tribute anyway.

 

The best bit of verse from the play is this bit from Act 4, Scene 2:

 

       Fear no more the heat o’ th’ sun

           Nor the furious winter’s rages;

       Thou thy worldly task hast done,

           Home art gone, and ta’en thy wages.

       Golden lads and girls all must,

       As chimney-sweepers, come to dust.

 

       Fear no more the frown o’ th’ great;

           Thou art past the tyrant’s stroke.

       Care no more to clothe and eat;

           To thee the reed is as the oak.

       The sceptre, learning, physic, must

       All follow this and come to dust.

 

       Fear no more the lightning flash,

           Nor th’ all-dreaded thunder-stone;

       Fear not slander, censure rash;

           Thou hast finished joy and moan.

       All lovers young, all lovers must

       Consign to thee and come to dust.

 

       No exorciser harm thee!

           Nor no witchcraft charm thee!

       Ghost unlaid forbear thee!

           Nothing ill come near thee!

       Quiet consummation have,

       And renowned be thy grave!

 

which is the bit that reminded me of A.E. Houseman.

Edited August 28, 2022 by KEV67

[KEV67]

10 minutes ago, Hayley said:

I'm a bit behind but I still can't work out why you started to like Cloten!

He does not try to ingratiate himself with anyone. What you see is what you get.

[KEV67]

Alfred Lord Tennyson liked this bit from Cymbeline most. He was buried with the book open at the page.

 

‘Hang there like fruit, my soul,
Till the tree die,’

[KEV67]

Have to say, the bits where Innogen dresses as a man, calling herself Fidele, with all the men she meets not understanding why they took such a liking to the young fellow; well those bits reminded me of Blackadder Goes Forth when General Melchett took an unaccountable like to Private Bob.

[Hayley]

15 minutes ago, KEV67 said:

He does not try to ingratiate himself with anyone. What you see is what you get.

He wanted to kill Imogen's husband and then rape her next to his dead body. I've just gotten to his death and he did absolutely nothing to remotely redeem himself in the meantime! 

 

4 minutes ago, KEV67 said:

Have to say, the bits where Innogen dresses as a man, calling herself Fidele, with all the men she meets not understanding why they took such a liking to the young fellow; well those bits reminded me of Blackadder Goes Forth when General Melchett took an unaccountable like to Private Bob.

Agree on this part, it's sort of so overly ironic that it's comical.

[KEV67]

Also liked this quote: Mine eyes were not in fault, for she was beautiful;

[KEV67]

21 minutes ago, Hayley said:

He wanted to kill Imogen's husband and then rape her next to his dead body. I've just gotten to his death and he did absolutely nothing to remotely redeem himself in the meantime! 

 

 

Yes, but he is open about it. He is not going to do it and pretend it wasn't him, or needle someone else in to doing it. Besides, Imogen's husband, Posthumus, sent his servant to kill Imogen when he thought she had been unfaithful (if I understood right). Posthumus was forgiven.

[Hayley]

1 hour ago, KEV67 said:

Yes, but he is open about it. He is not going to do it and pretend it wasn't him, or needle someone else in to doing it. Besides, Imogen's husband, Posthumus, sent his servant to kill Imogen when he thought she had been unfaithful (if I understood right). Posthumus was forgiven.

I don't think Posthumus should have been forgiven either but Cloten definitely deserved to have his head lopped off. Just because he was self-assured and overly confident doesn't mean he should get away with his plot to become a murdering rapist, in my opinion. 

[Hayley]

A tiny bit late, but final thoughts on Cymbeline:

 

-It's not the best of Shakespeare's plays, but it was still interesting. The ending starts to get quite silly, almost comedic, which was a bit weird. I was definitely expecting it to be more... well, tragic. 

 

-The actual resolution of the play seemed oddly brief.

 

-Still happy that Cloten got his head chopped off.