Julie ~ "Lucky" 2013 ~ Booklist

[Kylie]

That whole Carl Williams/Underbelly saga is pretty fascinating. After watching the (original) series, I bought the book, Leadbelly, which you crime folks might be interested in.

 

I've also definitely heard of the Beaumont children, although it was well before my time. Other interesting cases that have garnered a lot of attention are the Peter Falconio case (Frankie listed some related books a page or two back) and the Lindy Chamberlain case (probably better known to the rest of the world as 'a dingo's got my baby').

[julie]

Kylie

Yes, I read the Chamberlain story LONG ago, when it first happened. I think I saw a book recently on Amazon about it. Not sure if it's just a reprint of the first one(I've noticed lately that some of the older true cime books I read years ago are being re-released with different titles). Maybe to either sell to unsuspecting people who think its a new take on the story, maybe to just sell to newbies who have yet to read anything about the case .

 

I'm still not sure on the theory of the Dingo carrying off a baby . Would it be possible ? I dont live where there are Dingos, so I'm not really well-versed in the size of a Dingo or the eating habits.

There are areas in our state that have coyotes,and they do say that they could be a danger to small animals or kids,but would they drag a kid off into the woods and eat them ?

I don't think so .. but I'm guessing .

 

What's the word over there on Dingos ? Any history at all of them eating a PERSON ? They look like they'd be pretty small, not a massive huge animal.

[chaliepud]

Dingos aren't very big but are fairly wiry and strong (Obi is in fact descended from Dingos) but being a pack animal they could work together to carry off prey, like wolves though they would not seek human prey as they are naturally fearful of humans but if a child wandered into their midst who knows. I think during that case the searchers thought they would at least find some remains but wolves (and I'm assuming Dingos too) will eat pretty much an entire carcass and bury anything they cannot eat so there are no trails left..

[julie]

Thanks for the info,Chalie

I can't remember for sure,but I don't think they could even find any of the clothes the baby was wearing . I'm not sure though,it's been so long ago that I read that ... I also can't remember how long from the time the babye came up missing til they actually called in police to help them search for her .

 

Whatcha readng right now,anything exciting ?

[Kylie]

A new book has been published on the subject recently, and I think it was written by the father. Just last year, the case was reopened and a judge finally ruled that a dingo did indeed take Azaria. At the time that it happened, no real dingo attacks had been recorded in Australia, so it was assumed that a dingo couldn't take a baby. However, since then, there have been several reported dingo attacks, and a 9-year-old boy was killed by a dingo several years ago. Now that it's a fact that dingos can kill, I guess it is much more plausible that a dingo was responsible.

[julie]

Thanks for the update Kylie

I hadn't heard any more about the case. That certainly did take a long time for them to come to a resolution over it . I think at the time it happened, lots of people thought the mother may have somehow "disposed" of the baby . Good to know they came to a resolution .

[Devi]

The snowtown murders would be another famous case in Australia, it's also known as the bodies in the barrels case because the victims were found in barrels of acid.

 

Here is a quote from wikipedia:

The crimes were uncovered when the remains of eight victims were found in barrels of acid located in a rented former bank building on 20 May 1999. The name "Snowtown murders" refers to the town where the bodies were found despite that the bodies were moved there only in the final months of the crime spree.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowtown_murders

[julie]

Devi

Thanks for mentioning that. I found a set of videos on youtube that are all about famous Australian murders and I think one of them was called The Snowtown Murders. I'll have to take time to watch it to see what they say about it .

 

 

Edited January 19, 2013 by julie

[Kylie]

Poor Julie. We are probably giving the impression that Australia is full of crime and murder. She'll think it's a nasty country and will never want to visit! Don't worry, Julie, we'll look after you!

[Devi]

Well we are meant to be a country full of convicts from the UK!

 

I think all things considered, we probably have a low crime rate compared to other countries. Probably being just over 200 years old helps that too.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Devi

[julie]

Thank you kindly, Kylie,but I'll bet your murder rate is a LOT lower than ours. To hear all the crimes from here,you might think it'd be dangerous to walk out the front door.

Although our state is one of the most densely populated, it's only because we have several large towns in the state. We live in an area where you see more cornfields than people .

I was talking to our police chief one day - he has written a couple books about the history of our area,and he said we have only ever had 8 murders in our town . One was when the chief of police YEARS ago shot a man who robbed the grocery store. The guy wasn't from here,so he didnt know what direction to drive to get away,and the police had him cornered on a street. He turned around to shoot at the policeman,and the policeman killed him with one shot. That was a big thing at the time since we never have any excitement here. The chief took a long time off work after that -- he had a hard time dealing with the fact that he had to kill a person .

Another murder was outside a bar down on Main street. 2 drunks got into a fight and one shot the other .

I'm not aware of any others during my lifetime.

We used to have a bar in town called The Sleepy Owl,and there was an apartment upstairs. The lady who lived there went loco one day,and decided to shoot at every car that drove by,so a few people got NICKED by bullets,but no one was seriously injured .

Edited January 19, 2013 by julie

[julie]

Devi

I was trying to recall the history of your country yesterday . I knew that England sent people that were in trouble with the law to your country,but did they send any murderers ? Like dangerous type people or did they send people who had just robbed stores or stolen a horse,or some simpler crimes like that ?

I wouldnt think they would have sent really dangerous fugitives there ,but I could be wrong .

[frankie]

Frankie

Yes, I agree that gun control would definitely put a little bit of a damper on the crazy people that wanna shoot up a building full of people. They say they are going to attempt to make stricter laws here after the recent elementary school shooting in Connecticut. I sure hope they can do something about the situation. I don't think they will ever figure out a way to completely eliminate it,but there's gotta be more they can do .

 

I agree, there should be a waiting period after one's signed up for buying a gun, so that they couldn't just go and buy one. I'm not sure, but I think in some states over where you live you don't have to wait very long at all?

 

But it's not the whole solution. When we had our two school shootings a lot of people thought we should have an even stricter gun policy, but then after that we've had murder/killing cases where the killer has gone and 'borrowed' a relative's gun, knowing where they keep the keys to the locked gun case and have had access to a weapon in this way.

 

Some of the names on the shooter's list are familier -- the Virginia Tech shooter ,and Adam Lanza was the Connecticut guy .

The first Texas guy was the Luby cafeteria shooter who went in and shot people eating in the restaurant .

The San Diego guy was the McDonalds shooter ...

The Whitman guy was in the tower at a college and shot several college kids below him walking around outside that day .

I remember several of the postal workers long ago --that term was given --going postal ,because several guys who worked in post offices got angry about something at their job and came back and shot up the place.

I remember the guy who shot several of his family members ,those are fairly common too .

The Texas one was in the army base down there when one of the soldiers went off the deep end and shot several fellow soldiers.

 

I can't even imagine what it would be like to know of so many cases from 50 cases on a list, and that they've all happened in one's own country...

 

I remember the Norway one which is number 1 on the list --the one out on the island where the kids were in the political convention type camp to learn more about government or some such thing .

 

That was really awful. I remember we were out sitting at a park, having a few ciders with friends when one of us took out their cell phone and started going through news and told us that more than ten people had been shot. I can't remember if it was still going on or if it was just the case that they hadn't managed to find and count all the bodies yet. It was awful.

 

The earlier one you mentioned about the girl on her way home from a church event -- it sounds like the second guy they mentioned ,the Hans guy,sounds like the most likely suspect . It sure looks like a tiny list of murders in your country. It'd be nice to live in such a safe place .

 

Quite curiously he was also a suspect in the Lake Bodom murders!

 

Aww shucks Frankie I would love it if I could meet you one day!

 

Maybe the next time I visit Australia Kylie and I could come around a'knocking on your door Or meet somewhere half way. In a great big secondhand bookshop, preferably

 

 

Because of the shooting gun laws were tightened and restricted here in Australia. My aunt worked as a prison officer for a few years, and worked at the same prison the killer is in. She mentioned he was a bit of a sicko. I would love it if my aunt wrote a book about her work in prisons, she has told me a few work related stories.

 

Oh wow, I'm sure your aunt would have a lot of interesting stories! If she ever publishes her stories, give us a holler and I'll definitely buy the book!

 

I read a lot of true crime books too. I'm interested in why people do things like that. Here (in NZ) nearly all murder victims know their killer, often domestic violence, or, very sadly, child abuse. Unfortunately, we have a really high rate of child deaths from abuse. We have had a few mass killings too, the worst being Aramoana in 1990 where, 13 were killed. (http://en.wikipedia....amoana_massacre) In 1992 a guy killed seven members of his own family, and in 1997 a guy shot eleven people, killing six, in a tiny little village. We have really tight gun laws here.

 

Thanks bookmonkey, I'm going to check the link out, I don't think I've ever heard about murder cases in NZ!

 

That last guy who killed the kids actually went to buy a gun and our gun laws turned him down - he had a history of mental issues and had been on mind-altering drugs(antidepressants),so they turned him down.

His MOTHER had 3 guns in her house,though,so he located them shot and killed her,then went to the school and killed so many little kids. I blame a lot of that situation on his mom. He lived with her,she knew he had mental issues, but yet she kept 3 guns in the house. NOT SMART .

 

Unless the mother is a hunter who actively goes out during the weekends to hunt for food, I cannot fathom why she would need three guns in her house. Or even one, to begin with.

 

There are also always cases when parents just don't keep their guns under lock and key and kids get to them and start playing and then end up firing the gun. They are such unnecessary deaths

 

 

Well, I made a library trip yesterday and found some new true crime books ,so I picked them up.

 

I'm so jealous, our library has a teeny tiny section for crime and true crime books, it's just ridiculous. And most of the books in that section are mob books or drug related crime, and I'm not interested in those themes. Pretty much all of the true crime books I've read have been books I've had to buy somewhere.

[Devi]

Devi

I was trying to recall the history of your country yesterday . I knew that England sent people that were in trouble with the law to your country,but did they send any murderers ? Like dangerous type people or did they send people who had just robbed stores or stolen a horse,or some simpler crimes like that ?

I wouldnt think they would have sent really dangerous fugitives there ,but I could be wrong .

 

It was a mix but 8 out of 10 prisoners were accused of larceny - compound larceny, stealing goods worth more than a shilling (about $50 in today's money) - meant death by hanging. Some of the criminals were political prisoners, and pow's, lawyers, doctors and teachers as well, and jobs were given to them based on their skills when they arrived. It was a hard and harsh existence, but I imagine it would probably beat doing prison time, and death for sure.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Devi

[julie]

Frankie

 

Yes, each state has different guidelines to follow regarding gun purchases ,so some would have stricter rules than others . I think it's a 3 day wait for some areas,time enough to do a background check to see if the person has a criminal record, been diagnosed with a mental illness, been using illegal drugs and been caught,etc .

You're right,though,lots of people who have gone on these killing sprees did NOT own the weapon,they either borrowed it or stole it ,so if they want one bad enough ,they will find it .

 

As for the Adam Lanza boy who shot all the little kids at school his mother (we've heard ) was one of the End-Of-the World fanatics,and she thought she needed guns for protection from ... UM ZOMBIES ???

I have no clue WHOshe thought would get her . The crazy thinking of hers got her shot by her own son ..

 

Do you have a Kindle ? I could do the loan thing for you if you guys can do that over there .Some of the books I buy are loanable to another kindle owner ,so if it'll work from over there, I'd be happy to pass them on to you .That's what type books I own most of now are Kindle books . If I run across some paper true crime books, I could pick them up for you and send them if you'd like .

 

 

 

Devi

That doesnt sound like that bad a mix of people then --they may have been petty criminals with no violent tendencies . Everyone can make a mistake sometimes . Have any of you from Australia done any type of geneolgy searches to see who was the original person in your family who started their lives in the country ? It'd be really interesting to find out .

[frankie]

Yes, each state has different guidelines to follow regarding gun purchases ,so some would have stricter rules than others . I think it's a 3 day wait for some areas,time enough to do a background check to see if the person has a criminal record, been diagnosed with a mental illness, been using illegal drugs and been caught,etc .

 

I have no idea how you guys cope with all the different laws in different states, how do you keep up with all the different things. I wouldn't remember half of the stuff, although I guess you only need to know your own state's laws and look up others when you travel out of state.

 

As for the Adam Lanza boy who shot all the little kids at school his mother (we've heard ) was one of the End-Of-the World fanatics,and she thought she needed guns for protection from ... UM ZOMBIES ???

I have no clue WHOshe thought would get her . The crazy thinking of hers got her shot by her own son ..

 

Sure, I mean if the UFOs came I'm sure she could take them down with three guns. Yes sirree, all on her own...

 

Do you have a Kindle ? I could do the loan thing for you if you guys can do that over there .Some of the books I buy are loanable to another kindle owner ,so if it'll work from over there, I'd be happy to pass them on to you .That's what type books I own most of now are Kindle books . If I run across some paper true crime books, I could pick them up for you and send them if you'd like .

 

Unfortunately I don't own a Kindle That's really nice for you to offer, but I think the postage from the States to Finland would be kinda pricey and I wouldn't want you to go through all that trouble I can get secondhand books from play.com so it's just a case of finding good books to order

[julie]

Frankie

It's really not that hard over here to keep track of the laws . I think sometimes people from other countries ,if they aren't real familiar with ours ,or maybe havent been here and traveled extensively, they don't realize the size of the states . We rarely EVER leave Ohio ,unless it's just a random vacation,which we dont get to do very often anymore. It's been several years since we've gotten to leave the state due to health reasons and medical expenses.

So ,to leave Ohio, if you were going north, it 'd be an hour and a half,south is 2 and a half, east is maybe 1 hour or more,west is about 2 hours . That'd be to get to the border . Most of the states abide by the same rules,but on certain issues like gun control, death penalty, some states have a little different speed limits on the roads ,etc .. It's really not hard to live here and keep track of things because I'd say most people spend 99 % of their time in the state they live in, unless they take a vacation or need to go see family in another state ,or they travel for their job .

 

As for the books, the offer is open .I rarely read paper books anymore unless they are library books ,but if you ever do get a Kindle, I'd be more than happy to share my books with you .

[Kylie]

That doesnt sound like that bad a mix of people then --they may have been petty criminals with no violent tendencies . Everyone can make a mistake sometimes . Have any of you from Australia done any type of geneolgy searches to see who was the original person in your family who started their lives in the country ? It'd be really interesting to find out .

 

It's funny you should ask about this, Julie. Just this afternoon I attended a local meeting where some local history was discussed, and how records have been kept. One of the speakers works in library services and mentioned how, only about 50 years ago, people would visit the library to find out information about their families, and if they found any record of convicts in their family, they would tear out that part of the page because it was shameful to have a convict heritage! Things have changed since then, though, and now it's something to brag about and be proud of. For myself, I'm not aware of any convict heritage, but I certainly wish I could trace my line back to convicts!

 

I did hear a story a couple of years ago that my Irish Pop met my Nanna in Australia when he was travelling around with a swag (the equivalent of modern-day backpacking, I guess). As I understand it, my Nanna had baked a cake and set it on the windowsill to cool and he pinched it! So I have a bit of criminal history, I guess. Seemed to work out well for my Pop, though.

[julie]

Kylie

Isn't that neat ? I love hearing stories like that about people's past history . I was big into genealogy about 10 years ago,and looked up my maternal side of the family -- which was quite interesting .

The only people in our family that people may have heard of ( and they played a minor role) ,was one of my great,great,great uncles ( I think I have the greats right, I'd have to dig out all my books to see , was one of the people in the Donner Party. Not sure if you would've heard much about it over there,since it's a small part of our "westward expansion" here. The Donner party was a small group of wagon trains who left to go west ,and the leader of the group made several errors in judgement ,the main 2 being that they left too late in the year and the weather got dangerously bad for the wagon trains by early fall,but he chose to go anyhow . His second mistake was the route they took. He had others who had traveled the route tell him NOT to take the route he did because of the difficulty in getting through the mountains ,even in GOOD weather,but it sounds as if he was pretty headstrong and decided he knew better than others did .

They ended up getting stranded in the mountains in a severe winter blizard . My great-great-great uncle William McCutchen (spelled McCutcheon now ) was in the wagon train,along with his wife and 1 year old baby girl . He was one of the men who left on horseback when they realized they were gonna be stuck there for a long time ,and they had short rations. He and another guy made it to the closest fort, and they got food and provisions to bring back,but it took them quite awhile to get there and back,due to being frostbitten and in bad shape by the time they arrived at the fort .

In the meantime, the remaining people started getting sick and frostbitten -- the place they stopped had a couple old deserted cabins, so they had shelter ,but they couldnt find much wood to burn ,being in a blizzard .They had very little food,so they began starving. They ended up practicing cannibalism to survive,by eating the victims who died .

They waited as long as possiblle for the rescue party to arrive,and the group ended up splitting up,some of them staying there, others who left ,feeling that it might be their only chance of surviving .

My uncle and aunt both survived,but their baby daughter died .

 

My aunt ,who lived to be 93 ,told me that we are also related to an author, George Barr McCutcheon .You can still find his books in the classics area of amazon . I never figured out how he was linked into the family,but it's highly possible we are,because my grandfather's side of the family (McCutcheons all had several kids ( mostly sons ) .

 

So those are the only 2 who may have made a small name for themselves .

Edited January 20, 2013 by julie

[Athena]

Wow, those are some very interesting stories!

 

My great-greatgrandfather (if I got that correct) wrote a famous book about the technology of automobiles (cars). My dad's been on national television (he's a professor automotive, it runs in the family it seems ) and on the radio a few times. I think those two are the most famous ones from the family.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Athena

[julie]

Wow, Athena

That IS exciting ! You definitely have family members with lots of intelligence ! Something to certainly be proud of !

[julie]

Since we were talking ancestors and family trees, here's a photo of my grandparents on their wedding day :

 

 

 

 

[julie]

Here's another one --

My Great Grandpa and Grandma, my Great Uncle Harold, my Grandma Chloe,and my Great Aunt Hazel. This would have been about 1915 or so .

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2013 by julie

[Devi]

I think I have mentioned my genealogy somewhere before Julie, but if you like I can tell it again in here! We were also told that we are related to a famous author too, but we never knew if my great great grandad was just pulling our leg or not!

[julie]

Devi

That's really interesting --who are you supposed to be related to ?