Freewheeling Andy Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 We don't seem to have a Tolstoy thread. I'm making my second attempt at War and Peace, and after battling through a seriously turgid opening 50 pages where I was really struggling to understand who was who, and what they were doing, it's beginning to pick up in the second 50 pages. The interaction of the characters is finally coming to life for me. And I'm quite excited to know that a few pages away the war scenes will start, which my mum tells me are some of the best things in literature. I notice a few people have Anna Karenina (which I've never even opened) on their TBR piles so perhaps it's time to discuss Tolstoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polka Dot Rock Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Good idea, Andy! I notice a few people have Anna Karenina (which I've never even opened) on their TBR piles so perhaps it's time to discuss Tolstoy. Yep, I'm one of those people. I'm not sure when I'll get around to reading it, but maybe this thread will help I feel re-inspired to read it again after seeing Newsnight Review last Friday: they were discussing those new (awful) abridged classics, and Anna Karenina was one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 So is it the same as War and Peace? Not only incredibly long, but it takes an age to really get going at all, and there's a cast that's almost incomprehensibly large to start off with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polka Dot Rock Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 So is it the same as War and Peace? Not only incredibly long, but it takes an age to really get going at all, and there's a cast that's almost incomprehensibly large to start off with? I think so! Especially confusing as Anna isn't the only principal character, despite being in the title... The translation I've got is wonderfully fluent tho' so I imagine that will help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 The translation is an interesting thing, too. I know that Tolstoy wrote parts of War and Peace in French and parts in Russian. In the translation it mentions the characters talking in French as part of the text because it's relevent to whethern they're being posh or coarse in the society. And yet when there's a German speaking officer talking Russian, the translater puts it into a sort of cod-German accent "Zis iz ze vey ve do sings" etc. I'm sure it's necessary but it seems a little clumsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squawk Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 They do that with the Dostoevsky translations as well (well the ones I have read). I really like it TBH. I mean it gives a clear indication of how the German minorities would've been thought of. But anyway I would like to read War and Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polka Dot Rock Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 The translation is an interesting thing, too. I know that Tolstoy wrote parts of War and Peace in French and parts in Russian. Ooh now I didn't know that! Learn something new everyday etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 Well, I've been checking and it seems that it's large chunks of dialogue that are in French - the "narration" is all in Russian. But in 1805 Russia the upper classes did tend to speak a lot of French so it's basically reflecting reality. What's interesting is that it gets specifically stated in my translation: Prince Andrey stepped forward and spoke quietly to him in French. "Sir, you asked me to remind you about Dolokhov..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polka Dot Rock Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 ...in 1805 Russia the upper classes did tend to speak a lot of French so it's basically reflecting reality And that was today's "Amy learns something new" fact I had no idea! How little I know of Russian history... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Actually I've had both War and Peace and Anna Karenina in my TBR stack, and this morning pulled AK further up in the stack....maybe by next month, or June....I hope. Although who knows what book will distract me in the mean time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny_Shovel Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 I'd suggest the novella Hadji Murad as a good 'in' to Tolstoy. A cracking story and the kind of detailed characterisation you'd expect from the Russian master; but much, much, shorter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 After the turgid start, where the cast of characters was pretty hard to follow (actually, it still is on occasion), War & Peace is now turning into the magnificent masterpiece of its reputation. And I've only read to part 2 of Volume 1. A mere 1150 pages left, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishbookworm Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 the only tolstoy book I ever read was "War and peace" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 I've finished War & Peace now. I'm not sure it makes sense to do a "review", as the book has surely been reviewed more times than it needs to have been. Anyway, my thoughts are that as a historical family romance romp kind of thing, it was fantastic. As a description of wars and battle scenes, it was also fantastic. It may be one of the best novels ever written. But it is deeply, deeply flawed. There are too many pages discussing the flow of history, discussing how events happen without the control of people. The whole of Epilogue 2 is redundant and incredibly dull, too, being full of only this stuff. Tolstoy needs to discuss his views on history a bit, as he tries to explain how the war of 1812 flowed, how the French won almost every battle yet lost the war, how the inaction of the Russians led to the greatest success. He wants to explain how "Great Men" don't change wars and history, that the flow of human history will happen irrespective of Great Men. A view with which I strongly differ. But Tolstoy appears to be trying to contrast that with the love and happinness you can make in your own life, and to those closest to you. He's talking about the contrast between how you achieve personal redemption, and why that is what you should focus on rather than focussing on the bigger stage where neither you nor anyone else will genuinely change anything. So the discussions on the nature of history are clearly relevent to the book, but they are just too long winded (and, to my mind, wrong). The other thing that drags, for me, is a typical tendency in Victorian novels for the characters to spend too long on introspection, and have moments of epiphane when they suddenly change their entire outlook on life; to me neither of these things seems particularly realistic, although perhaps that's because of my modern sensitivities. But, these criticisms aside, it's still a wonderful book once you battle past the swarms of characters and determine who is who. Something that's pretty inevitable in a 1400 page novel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 The War and Peace is still on The Pile (one of them, anyways), but I have read Anna Karenina. Albeit it was many years ago (in high school) I do remember it rather well as we dealt with it for a long time. It's not that confusing with the names and such, as in the end there aren't many central characters. It's a beautiful story, and a very realistic description of its time (common to all the DRD's, Dead Russian Dudes as we called them in high school, really). If any of you wish to discuss Anna Karenina in more detail, I'd be happy to join in. Oh, one word of warning, though. At least for me it was very hard to like Anna. I though she was a real cow, if you don't mind me saying so. The true art of the story is, thus, that everything makes sense. You find yourself agreeing with the characters and their actions, even if you don't like them one bit. It just makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishbookworm Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I've finished War & Peace now. I'm not sure it makes sense to do a "review", as the book has surely been reviewed more times than it needs to have been. Anyway, my thoughts are that as a historical family romance romp kind of thing, it was fantastic. As a description of wars and battle scenes, it was also fantastic. It may be one of the best novels ever written. But it is deeply, deeply flawed. There are too many pages discussing the flow of history, discussing how events happen without the control of people. The whole of Epilogue 2 is redundant and incredibly dull, too, being full of only this stuff. Tolstoy needs to discuss his views on history a bit, as he tries to explain how the war of 1812 flowed, how the French won almost every battle yet lost the war, how the inaction of the Russians led to the greatest success. He wants to explain how "Great Men" don't change wars and history, that the flow of human history will happen irrespective of Great Men. A view with which I strongly differ. But Tolstoy appears to be trying to contrast that with the love and happinness you can make in your own life, and to those closest to you. He's talking about the contrast between how you achieve personal redemption, and why that is what you should focus on rather than focussing on the bigger stage where neither you nor anyone else will genuinely change anything. So the discussions on the nature of history are clearly relevent to the book, but they are just too long winded (and, to my mind, wrong). The other thing that drags, for me, is a typical tendency in Victorian novels for the characters to spend too long on introspection, and have moments of epiphane when they suddenly change their entire outlook on life; to me neither of these things seems particularly realistic, although perhaps that's because of my modern sensitivities. But, these criticisms aside, it's still a wonderful book once you battle past the swarms of characters and determine who is who. Something that's pretty inevitable in a 1400 page novel. I would take me from now until christmas to read the book because of the amount of pages to turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahsilet Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Only Tolstoy book I've read is Hadji Murad. I need to re-read it because I didn't get a full grip of the book the first time around. I have Anna Karenina and War & Peace, but have read neither. What I didn't like about Hadji Murad is how Tolstoy treated characters. He would bring some characters in just to only take them out of the book a few pages later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I've wanted to read War and Peace, but I haven't had the time or energy to really commit myself to a book like that. My Humanities teacher called the book "possibly the best book ever written." To the people who have read it, do you agree? I read your thoughts, Andy, and was really intrigued, and I think I'll cautiously give it a try sometime next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipread Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I thought War and Peace was a great book, the characters, the romance the battles and the wars were brilliantly written. There were parts that dragged and seemed unnecessarily longwinded, and I did skip through these pages, I confess. I agree with Andys thoughts pretty much. Is it the best book ever written? I honestly don`t know, haven`t read enough of the classics to judge. I would reccomend reading War & Peace though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Mines Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Which translation are you reading? I have Constance Garnett's, which has been enthusiastically panned by several distinguished Russian novelists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Andrea~ Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I almost put Anna Karenina on my xmas list - but I am thinking of borrowing war and peace now instead. If I like it I can get AK another time. It is quite a daunting prospect though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Mines Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 War and Peace sat on the shelf for about two years. I own an old, shabby copy of Constance Garnett's questionable translation which I have only just found the courage to read. Today I'm at page 571 and am completely enthralled. If you haven't read it yet, you should. It's superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonders disciple Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I've been wanting to read War and Peace for so long now. The problem is i have so many other books on the go at once. I need to set myself a target of finishing what books I am reading and forcing myself not to pick up any more. Think if you are going to read such a classic you really have to give it your full attention. Of course this is just my humble opinion:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 War and Peace sat on the shelf for about two years. I own an old, shabby copy of Constance Garnett's questionable translation which I have only just found the courage to read. Today I'm at page 571 and am completely enthralled. If you haven't read it yet, you should. It's superb. It really is fantastic, isn't it? It took a while for me to get into when I was reading it; and I was nervous because I'd failed when trying to read it in my late teens - I don't think I had enough knowledge or experience to understand it, and I was very, very lazy and couldn't remember the characters (it became much easier once I kind of understood (or at least, spotted) the Russian patronymic, and could notice where the same character had different titles). But once over the couple of small barriers, it just becomes a really, really great book. It's a giant love and battles romp, beautifully written. And because it's based around a very defined war, I didn't even feel like it was either too long, or wanted it to continue for ever like you do with some books like this. It's huge, but it's also just right, I think. Particularly with the first epilogue helping out with the aftermath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 (And I'm not sure that letting people know the 1812-1815 franco-russian war came to an end qualifies as a spoiler...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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