CuriousGeorgette

If you're looking for a bit more meat - A Prayer for Owen Meany - John Irving. The World According to Garp - John Irving. Virtually anything by Neil Gaiman - mythical otherwordly but definitely meaty Action / Mystery / Adventure and some historical factoids: Assassin's Creed Series - Oliver Bowden Sci-fi / Fantasy Boreal Moon Series - Julian May Books of Stone and Water - Daniel Fox Assassins Apprentice, Farseer Trilogy and Soldier Son - all by Robin Hobb Historical Fiction Conqueror and Emperor Series (unrelated) by Conn Iggulden Hornblower - C.S Forester Sharpe - Bernard Cornwall Ramage - Dudley Pope Other: Life of Pi - Yann Martell

Yes completely agree.

Thanks for the link to that site, there are some really good and thoughtful reviews on there. http://www.nevilshute.org/biblio_new.php <- for all the reviews of all his books.

Oddly enough those kinds of things don't bother me HUGELY although it does sometimes when I have a particularly strong image of a character in my head. When translating from book to screen, those details often get ignored, so I guess in a way I'm kind of used to it. I must admit that the only movie in recent years that has been a bother for me on that point are the Narnia movies. Just about the only character I can say they got right was Reepicheep. Every one else just didn't exactly seem right.

Aah but they mustn't be glaringly obvious either because then it's like an itchy spot in my brain and it won't go away and I keep thinking = naartjie why didn't he/she just say the lights went out .... see simple solution that would have fit all other details of his story, without subtracting or requiring a long explanation .... and I would have been a happy camper it is a logical inconsistency I must point out that I am the kind of person who watches a movie at least 2 / 3 times and notices all the things like the glass being half full then full again or the actors socks suddenly changing colour

hmmm ok perhaps however ... it kind of stands out as one of those ... hmm that wasn't well explained / properly thought through / requires a bit suspension of disbelief moments. I don't much like them

um but the implication in the first quote was that it was not that local ... and required a fair bit of labour .. if every one was nearly dead or dying especially those further away ... who was excavating/feeding brown coal into the generators?

and keeping in the tradition of NOT following the news ... 4/10 not so many lucky guesses this week.

nope.... I will give you a clue ..... IF they are the last place in Australia to get the radiation (except for Tasmania which is mentioned somewhere) .... why is the electricity still on?

Has any one else noticed the one major inconsistency in the book?

Hmmm I think if it was normal life she wouldn't even have pursued him. Married = off-limits, but under these circumstances .... she is willing to try anything including making her bikini top fall off accidentally on purpose. She pretty much throws herself at him really, right from their first meeting. I think that there is some ambiguity in just how 'loose' she was. It is hinted here and there she might have been doing more with whomever, but there is also clearly a firm moral base to Moira as well. Perhaps it is more just that she flirts an awful lot, especially when she drinks, rather than going all the way. I think that in some way the drinking was an attempt to get past her own moral inhibitions because she wanted to experience certain things, but still had not managed to do so. In the end she resigns herself to dying an 'old maid' because the one who has captured her heart has coped with the situation by embracing a fantasy in which his wife and children are still alive and waiting for him. She deliberately buys into his fantasy in order to have whatever little of love she could have, seeing as how being 'loose' hadn't worked for her, on any level ie it was neither letting her have a sexual experience (because of her moral inhibitions) nor getting her closer to Dwight (because of his moral inhibitions).

I fail to see any discrepancy or contradiction but I am bowing out as it is clear that people are unable to discuss a difference of opinion calmly and politely without it being viewed as 'personal' and the rebuttals failing to be anything but defensive responses which add nothing to a discussion. Why is it that people are unable to reply with a well thought out and reasoned response. There are as many, if not more articles defending why Harry Potter is a work of literary genius. How about sourcing some of those to defend your enjoyment of the book instead of reacting with emotion which achieves nothing but to kill the discussion dead? Should that have happened we could have had an interesting discussion.

I agree with you - but she also says she was 'starving' which I took to mean that she knew what she wanted to do, and had Dwight been a different person she would have done whatever it took to do it. She wasn't the party girl, but did certainly wanted to experience 'it' and would have if it wasn't for Dwight's commitment to his wife and kids, whom he is unable to visualise any other way other than still alive and waiting for him.

Peter says 'party girl' and Mary says '"She doesn’t, you know. It’s all on the surface."' so although she acted 'loose' she wasn't. But later in the book Mary and Moira are talking about Dwight: She picked up the poker and began playing with it. "If it was for a lifetime it’d be different," she said. "It’d be worth doing her dirt if it meant having Dwight for good, and children, and a home, and a full life. I’d go through anything if I could see a chance of that. But to do her dirt just for three months’ pleasure and nothing at the end of it—well, that’s another thing. I may be a loose woman, but I don’t know that I’m all that loose." She looked up, smiling. "Anyway, I don’t believe that I could do it in the time. I think he’d take a lot of prising away from her." "Oh dear," said Mary. "Things are difficult, aren’t they?" "Couldn’t be worse," Moira agreed. "I think I’ll probably die an old maid." And then she and Dwight are discussing going away for the fishing: He stared across the crowded restaurant. "I’m going home quite soon," he said. "I’ve been away a long time, but it’s nearly over now. You know the way it is. I’ve got a wife at home I love, and I’ve played straight with her the two years that I’ve been away. I wouldn’t want to spoil that now, these few last days." "I know," she said. "I’ve known that all the time." She was silent for a minute, and then she said, "You’ve been very good for me, Dwight. I don’t know what would have happened if you hadn’t come along. I suppose half a loaf is better than no bread, when you’re starving." He wrinkled his brows. "I didn’t get that, honey." "It doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t want to start a smutty love affair when I’m dying in a week or ten days’ time. I’ve got some standards, too—now, anyway." So she drank, but wasn't loose, she would have done anything to have had Dwight to herself, to get married and all that goes with it, is 'starving' for love and all that he is refusing her because he is married, but is resigned to his devotion to his wife. Just to go back to my theory that they are all a bit insane - They talked a little of the cruise and of conditions at Seattle and in Queensland. Finally the doctor said, "I’ll probably look in tomorrow afternoon with one or two things you’d better take. I’ve got to go to Dandenong; my partner’s operating at the hospital and I’m giving the anaesthetic for him. I’ll pick up the stuff there and look in on my way home." "Is it a serious operation?" "Not too bad. Woman with a growth upon the stomach. She’ll be better with it out. Give her a few more years of useful life, anyway." Now that is a serious denial of reality - for a doctor to be operating to remove a growth to give her a 'few more years of useless life' above every one else he must realise both the stupidity and profound pointlessness of putting a person through such a surgery at this point. Dwight's considered opinion: "He’s nuts," said the commander. "Why? Because he’s making you stay in bed?" "Not that. He’s operating on a woman at the hospital tomorrow so that she’ll have some years of useful life ahead of her." So they consider his actions 'nuts' but not their own Then later Dwight and Moira are talking about his family and he says: He turned to her. "I suppose you think I’m nuts," he said heavily. "But that’s the way I see it, and I can’t seem to think about it any other way. At any rate, I don’t cry over babies." Then a little bit later on the same morning: They went on happily planning their garden for the next ten years, and the morning passed very quickly. When Moira and Dwight came back from church they were still at it. They were called into consultation on the layout of the kitchen garden. Presently Peter and Mary went into the house, the former to get drinks and the latter to get the lunch. The girl glanced at the American. "Someone’s crazy," she said quietly. "Is it me or them?" "Why do you say that?" "They won’t be here in six months’ time. I won’t be here. You won’t be here. They won’t want any vegetables next year." Dwight stood in silence for a moment, looking out at the blue sea, the long curve of the shore. "So what?" he said at last. "Maybe they don’t believe it. Maybe they think that they can take it all with them and have it where they’re going to, someplace. I wouldn’t know." He paused. "The thing is, they just kind of like to plan a garden. Don’t you go and spoil it for them, telling them they’re crazy." "I wouldn’t do that." She stood in silence for a minute. "None of us really believe it’s ever going to happen—not to us," she said at last. "Everybody’s crazy on that point, one way or another."

It just feels to me that they were all at very least in that state of numbness that follows a great shock. And yes although it can be argued it is a 'healthy' coping mechanism to block it all out for a bit and function on autopilot, there is also a lot of 'why' and 'why me' or 'why us' and 'isn't there anything I can do' type anger and questioning. There is only one time in the book when Moira, when extremely drunk, who gives voice to that kind of normal angry questioning, but at no other point do any of them do that. They do not refer directly to what is happening. They don't even say 'radiation sickness' it is 'that cholera thing' and they all say 'there isn't much time left' while planning what they are going to do next year, and the year after. Even at the end Moira goes and takes the pill 'to join Dwight with his family' not to die. There is vast collective refusal to face reality, even though they all know it on some level, as evidenced by both the deaths at the race and the response to them. And they are all complicit in this vast refusal to face reality. Moira never says to Dwight, "now listen you daft git, I don't want to die never having known a man, so forget your wife and kids for a moment because they are dead and do something with the girl in your arms". No she goes right along with his delusion and goes and finds some one to make a pogo stick for his daughter. Its not exactly entirely sane. To go back to Pontalba's question about the red boxes of pills / injections - while I am profoundly against the concept of euthanasia this is one circumstance in which I can understand the necessity. They are all going to die, no matter what. Even if some survive for a bit longer than the others, the levels of radiation are just too high and going to remain too high for too long for any one to survive. (Although I think Chernobyl has taught us that despite dangerously high levels of radiation plants and even animals do in fact survive unexpectedly well, but that was not known at the time of this book being written. At that time it was thought / known as a fact that nothing survived long term exposure to certain levels of radiation). As a result the choice would be to end it painlessly before you got too sick to do it, or to risk lingering on and dying slowly of some or other cancer, if you survived that long, or more likely in an agonisingly slow death from the nausea and diarrhoea radiation sickness causes. I'm glad it was a choice though and not mandatory. I think that if there were an organised 'killing' by requiring every one to take the pills at a certain point I would have objected violently.

English Sci-fi author in 1955 - hmmm Arthur C. Clarke I think may have had his first stories published around then, although I think most of his writing was a bit later. So not him. H.G. Wells ... but he was before then. Brian Aldiss - also I think a bit later. And you are currently reading John Wyndham ... so is it a stretch to suggest him - he is really the only British author I can think of who would be publishing around that time?

If every one has finished jumping to conclusions and defending that which was not attacked ... may I make my next point? It actually got me thinking about the whole marketing strategy for self-published authors. This strategy clearly works (we can't argue with that many sales - it works.) So if a book (excuse me but these books really are badly written no matter how many people like them, being badly written and being likable are two different things - Mills and Boon is a case in point.) as badly written as Harry Potter can be leveraged through clever marketing into the best seller it is / was then how do self-published authors make use of the same type of strategy when prevailing 'wisdom' says that you give away as many copies as you can (defeating step 1 in the process) in order to hopefully generate the magic 100 reviews needed for Amazon's marketing to swing into power for you (well for them really as I'm not sure that your success is high on their list of priorities)? Surely it would be better NOT to give any copies away and to generate interest some other, more effective way? Although what that way might be I can not see.

It is this particular point that makes me argue for them all having gone a bit round the bend - to use another WW2 phrase (which is also the title of another of Nevil Shute's books ) The origin of which I have always found fascinating. Harpic - a well known toilet cleaner brought out their first advert with the tag line 'cleans right round the bend' and for the first time there was an active embracing of psychology / psychological warfare during WW2. These two factors came together and resulted in the saying that people were 'around the bend' or not quite sane.

Who is criticising? And IF people actually read the thesis which goes into how the whole marketing plan works they will see the point I'm making. Because this right here is part of the plan. It highlights just how clever the marketing plans are - The first Harry Potter book had a print run of 500 books - it had sold 30 00 by the end of the first year. Doesn't this give you pause for thought at how effective this process is? And how much every one is being influenced, every day. Seeing that only very rarely do people actually click on links and read them I shall quote: Harry Potter is a prime example of current business practices in children’s literature and culture. Consequently, those that believe that Harry Potter is a direct reflection of marketing genius point to the mass consumer appeal that the Harry Potter books have elicited. ... At the onset of the Harry Potter phenomenon, there was no mainstream marketing. Rather, a buzz was created and sustained purely on personal recommendation, playground conversations, and customer satisfaction in a very grassroots fashion.14 Gladwell contends that the Law of the Few depends greatly on the “nature of the messenger.”15 Thus, using the theorist’s framework, the Connectors can be seen as the children and adults that initially read the books and spread their opinions to their social networks. .... The first print of Philosopher’s Stone was only 500 copies. Yet within the first year, the book sold 30,000 copies. Originally, the novel caught on due to the strong reviews by children. The adolescents that first got their hands on the novel told their friends it was a good book and word spread quickly.16 What better way to start a phenomenon than through children? ... J.K. Rowling and her team of publishers picked an opportune time to release the Harry Potter books. While the late 1990s saw the creation of numerous trends, from the boy band craze to Pokemon, there was a window of opportunity in children’s literature. The overall children’s book market saw depressed sales throughout the early 1990s, creating a golden ticket for Rowling’s fantasy series. .... While many argue that Rowling’s work was an overnight success, it was actually three years in the making. From the word of mouth reviews from children and newspaper to the ingenious marketing techniques that caused individuals to recognize and embrace Harry Potter, each stage of the tipping point was executed with absolute precision. It is no surprise that all the groundwork that was laid culminated with the release of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and resulted in the globalization of the Harry Potter brand. Get the picture? It was all very cleverly planned from the beginning. So yes, from your friend's recommendation in the beginning right through to the whole hype around the release of the next copy at midnight on a certain date .... was all part of a clever marketing plan ie you were had!

Many I don't really find their styles that comparable. John Wyndham uses far more adjectives He also writes a deeper book that explores more philosophical issues than Shute does. Shute really writes a small story about one or two individuals rather than grand scale books - A Town like Alice - there is really only person in the novel - Trustee from the Toolroom - same thing. Ditto for several other of his books. His books are always about some one with more depth, more story than appears on the surface. They are all in a sense somewhat autobiographical. As for Wyndham's endings being more hopeful ... well ... Day of the Triffids could be argued as being more hopeful - although he admits to the possibility of lawlessness and every man for himself. Although at the very end the survival of the human race is decidedly left in doubt. The Midwich Cuckoo - more positive? Xenophobia taken to the extreme in which all the alien children are killed in 3 of the 4 places they have appeared and die mysteriously in the 4th. Not quite so positive outcome I won't go through the rest I think the shock did drive them all insane - Farmer to Peter: "I was saying to the wife," the farmer remarked slowly, "if I had a little trailer like that I could make it like a chair for her, put it on behind the push bike and take her into Falmouth, shopping. It’s mighty lonely for a woman in a place like this, these days," he explained. "Not like it was before the war, when she could take the car and get into town in twenty minutes. The bullock cart takes three and a half hours, and three and a half hours back; that’s seven hours for travelling alone. She did try to learn to ride a bike but she’ll never make a go of it, not at her age and another baby on the way. I wouldn’t want her to try. Rut if I had a little trailer like you’ve got I could take her into Falmouth twice a week, and take the milk and cream along to Mrs. Holmes at the same time." He paused. "I’d like to be able to do that for the wife," he remarked. "After all, from what they say on the wireless, there’s not so long to go." Admiral to Peter: The younger man said, "I know, sir. I’m very grateful for the opportunity." He hesitated, and then he asked, "Will the ship be at sea for much of that time, sir? I’m married, and we’ve got a baby. Things aren’t too easy now, compared with what they used to be, and it’s a bit difficult at home. And anyway, there’s not so long to go." The admiral nodded. "We’re all in the same boat, of course. That’s why I wanted to see you before offering this posting. I shan’t hold it against you if you ask to be excused, but in that case I can’t hold out much prospect of any further employment. Peter musing to himself: It should be all right for him to go, so long as nothing further went wrong. But if the electricity supply failed, or the radioactivity spread south more quickly than the wise men estimated … Put away that thought. Mary would be furious if he turned down this job and sacrificed his career. Dwight: In the tranquility of the church he set himself to think about his family, and to visualize them. He was, essentially, a very simple man. He would be going back to them in September, home from his travels. He would see them all again in less than nine months’ time. They must not feel when he rejoined them, that he was out of touch, or that he had forgotten things that were important in their lives. Junior must have grown quite a bit; kids did at that age. He had probably outgrown the coonskin cap and outfit, mentally and physically. It was time he had a fishing rod, a little Fiberglas spinning rod, and learned to use it. It would be fun teaching Junior to fish. His birthday was July the 10th. Dwight couldn’t send the rod for his birthday, and probably he couldn’t take it with him, though that would be worth trying. Perhaps he could get one over there. Helen’s birthday was April the 17th; she would be six then. Again, he’d miss her birthday unless something happened to Scorpion. He must remember to tell her he was sorry, and he must think of something to take her between now and September. Sharon would explain to her on the day, would tell her that Daddy was away at sea, but he’d be coming home before the winter and he’d bring his present then. Sharon would make it all right with Helen. He sat there thinking of his family throughout the service, kneeling when other people knelt and standing when they stood. From time to time he roused himself to take part in the simple and uncomplicated words of a hymn, but for the rest of the time he was lost in a daydream of his family and of his home. He walked out of the church at the end of the service mentally refreshed. These are normal?

Date of publication? Nationality of author?

Clever marketing is clever marketing and it works but its only when you wake up and start questioning WHY you reach for that box cereal, or prefer this brand to the others that you start realising just how much you are influenced by it. It takes a bit of conscious and deliberate awareness as well as active resistance to overcome. Perhaps instead of shooting the messenger this could be the day you shake off the mind control of mass advertising

Combine that opinion with this thesis http://www.stern.nyu.edu/cons/groups/content/documents/webasset/con_043282.pdf and what you end up with is a bad book that was marketed incredibly well meaning that millions of 'fans' were deliberately created and taken for millions of dollars. I have no issue with making money but the implication that the masses are so easily manipulated into such hysteria over something so badly written is an indictment of our times.

I don't know if any one else has read / seen / posted this review but here it is: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/jun/25/booksforchildrenandteenagers.guardianchildrensfictionprize2000

What did you think of the book, in general? I have loved Nevil Shute's writing for years. This is book is typical of his rather sparse economical style. 1- Who was your favourite character? Were there any characters whom you disliked? I have neither a favourite, nor one I dislike. 2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest? A rather odd question to ask given the subject matter of this book. 3- Did you like the writing? What did you think of the way the story was told? Yes, the story was told in a very sparse pared down prose, which particularly fitted the subject matter. This is Nevil Shute's normal style but here he was even sparser than usual telling the story with little in the way of 'prettiness'. This helps to put you in the mind set of the people of the story. There is nothing to do but wait. There is little information to be had, and what there is is all bad. 4- Was this the first book you've read by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? No it wasn't the first. I think I read A Town Like Alice First and I think Trustee From the Toolroom 5- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with? Nope. It isn't overall a very complex story. 6- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience? Again a rather odd question. Can one legitimately enjoy reading a book like this? It feels a little bit like saying one enjoyed a funeral. How does Shute's writing style affect the mood of the novel? I think his writing style reflects the mood of the people in the novel. Do you think the events of the novel are believable? Do you think the behavior of the characters in the novel is believable? Why or why not? Yes very, but only I think in the context of the period of the novel. These days I think there is far more likely to be the kind of wild rampaging and rioting we see so often these days eg LA riots and more recently the London riots. Why do you think Shute chose the title On the Beach? What is the significance of this phrase? "On the beach" has several different slang meanings from being unemployed (sailing slang), to being retired (navy), overland (airforce/pilots) and to being off-duty (navy circa WW2) and probably drunk. In a sense all meanings are applicable in the book. The people are unemployed, but working just enough to keep things going, are stuck on land (no ships or planes are functional), they are 'retired' from duty and life in a sense and are definitely passing the time drunk. What is the significance of work in the characters' lives? No one has to, they do it to pass the time. Make-work in other words. How has the definition of sanity changed in the aftermath of the nuclear war? Now this is actually an interesting question. They are all insane. It isn't immediately obvious as they appear to be fairly normal, coping with an impossible situation with a stiff upper lip and just get on with it attitude, but in reality they are all quite insane. The calmness with which they all face their impending death is just a touch too calm. They don't ever really discuss the reality of the situation, even when they send out the ship and then the submarine to find out what is going on in the rest of the world, both doctor their reports to not reflect the reality of the situation. There is a consensus to simply not face it, acknowledge it, deal with it, consider it, and that is surely a form of insanity. When they do discuss it, it is with this cheery 'well we must get on with it' attitude combined with a sense of 'it will all be alright in the end' of course nothing will be alright. They are one of the last people on earth, there is no way out and no reprieve. Discuss the role and imagery of nature in the novel. Nature is always described throughout the novel as cheerful, warm, reassuring and normal. It is a sharp contrast to the abnormal way they all interact with it.