The Day of the Triffids, by John Wyndham

[Raven]

 

The Triffids are Coming!

 

July's Reading Circle doesn't start until this Friday, but I wanted to give those who want to take part a heads-up on part of what I am intending to do.

 

As an addition to the normal book discussion, I'm also planning to compare the book to the 1981 BBC TV adaptation. This is an optional part of the discussion and won't take place until later in the month, but should you wish to get a copy to watch in good time, you can find it on Amazon for under £4 here: The Day of the Triffids.

 

More on Friday!

[Raven]

SPOILERS AHOY PEOPLE!!

 

IF YOU ARE READING THIS, I HOPE YOU HAVE READ THE BOOK!

Right, and we're off!

 

The Day of the Triffids, John Wyndham Parkes Lucas Beynon Harris' 1951 novel about the collapse of society and the rise of walking plants, covering themes of morality, ethics and gender roles.

 

Some questions to get us going:

 

1) Who was your favourite character?

 

2) The book has several distinct phases; the collapse of society in London; the search for Josella and life at Shirning, which was your favourite section and why?

 

3) The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the Triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

 

4) John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

 

For those interested in taking part in watching the BBC adaptation, I've found that you can watch it for free, online, here: The Day of the Triffids (UK only).

[Kell]

1) Who was your favourite character?

Coker is actually my favourite character - he's so highly principled and tries so hard to help as many people as he can, even if he has to force others to do so.

 

2) The book has several distinct phases; the collapse of society in London; the search for Josella and life at Shirning, which was your favourite section and why?

I love watching the whole collapse and seeing the different ways of rehabilitation that people look to, wether it's kidnapping sighted people to help the blind, or arranging polygamous groups to repopulate. I also loved the section where Bill and the others are trying to rebuild their lives and just do everything they can to get by. The whole looking for Josella bit, I wasn't so keen on.

 

3) The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the Triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

I find the idea intriguing, more than scary, though no doubt if something like this were to actually happen, I'm sure I'd find it quite terrifying! It's more a psychological thing - realising that man is only the dominant species on the planet by default.

 

4) John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

I actually think this one is quite well told. I've read it several times and always enjoyed it immensely.

[lauraloves]

Just popping in to say I will be back to answer the questions, as soon as I finish the book!

[lauraloves]

1) Who was your favourite character?

 

My favourite character was Bill, mainly because of his search for Josella, and how he never gave up!

 

2) The book has several distinct phases; the collapse of society in London; the search for Josella and life at Shirning, which was your favourite section and why?

 

My favourite section was life at Shirning, because I found it interesting how they coped with the triffids and also why the triffids were gathering near to them.

 

3) The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the Triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

 

I found the idea scary, that one event could happen and change the population forever. however I didnt find the triffids themselves scary.

4) John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

 

I found this story very entertaining and thought that this was a really good book.

[Chrissy]

Started the book (finally), will join in this week when I'm finished!

[Raven]

1) Who was your favourite character?

 

Without a doubt, it has to be Man of the People and all round good egg, Jack Coker (as I have previously said in another thread on this board, Jack is one of my favourite literary characters).

 

At first he is easy to take a dislike to, but as his motivation becomes clearer, and it becomes apparent that he is just trying to do the right thing - albeit (and arguably) in he wrong way - the more likeable he becomes.

 

I like his no-nonsense approach, and apart from being a useful chap to have around in a crisis you get the impression he would be someone genuinely interesting to know, and also a good friend. I think the relationship he develops with Bill, despite a decidedly shaky start, is testament to the kind of man he is.

 

2) The book has several distinct phases; the collapse of society in London; the search for Josella and life at Shirning, which was your favourite section and why?

I really should think about how I'm going to answer questions before I pose them, as I like the different phases of the book for different reasons!

 

For me, the phase in London is interesting for the description of how the triffids came about, and for the portrayal of a collapsing society; the search for Josella because of the characters it introduces and the section in Shirning for giving more information on the triffids and how the world without man in charge is gradually changing (I love the bits that depict a dead and decaying London!).

 

I'm not sure I can name one section as being preferable over the others, I think they all have their merits!

 

3) The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

 

As a kid, triffids scared the crap out of me (largely due to the BBC adaptation), but that passed as I grew older and actually read the book for the first time (just over twenty years ago, now).

 

I think the horror in the story is more born from the ghastly state of affairs that arise from the collapse of society and the inability of the blind to be able to do anything about their plight. The certain knowledge that the longer the situation continues without “anyone coming along to clear things up", the more likely it is that they will die, is truly a chilling one.

 

Having said that, however, I think there are a few sequences in the book where the triffids are genuinely unnerving. When Bill and Josella find her father; when the lone village survivor is killed by the lurking triffid (when he leaves his house to wave down Bill and Coker) and when the triffids break into the compound at Shirning. Brrrrrrr . . .

4) John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

Again with the "How do I answer this one?!" (this is good, I am challenging myself!).

 

Without going into detail about other Wyndham novels, he is very good at the "What if?" questions.

 

Here the question is "What would it be like if man lost control of the planet?" and to that end the green flashes and the triffids in turn are what are used to first unseat him, and to them keep him down.

 

In this novel I feel Wyndham pulls it off better than he does in any of his others. The concept is one that is explored thoroughly from several different angles and the story doesn’t feel as though it is window dressing for a sparsely-stocked cupboard.

[Raven]

More questions tomorrow, in the meantime does anoyone else have anything to add?

[Chrissy]

1) Who was your favourite character?

It's got to be Jack for me too. He is dynamic, forward thinking, selfless and unhindered by an overdeveloped ego. He is open and honest, who is willing to speak his mind and equally willing to admitting his mistakes.

 

2) The book has several distinct phases; the collapse of society in London; the search for Josella and life at Shirning, which was your favourite section and why?

I 'understood' the first two phases, and read them with interest, but I enjoyed the domesticated phase, with the development of the household and the maturing of Susan.

 

3) The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the Triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

I found the naivety and disregard of the possibility of intelligent movement of Triffids the scariest of all. It was as if no one could see the threat of a self propelling giant stinging plant before it actually when out and attacked. If I had to choose one aspect it was the congregating of the beasties around the perimeter of any habitation. *shiver*

 

4) John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

I enjoyed the concept enormously, and admired that he decided to kill off the majority of the population with a mysterious plague, leaving bunches of suvivors rather than a still-full society that was now blind. That would have become tedious reading very quickly. I found that the author gave enough in each scene without resorting to cliche or repetition. I was left wanting to know more about Jack, Bill, Josella and Susan and the details of how they went forward in their lives. So I would have to say that in this instance his concept and story were brought together well.

[Raven]

3) The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the Triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

I found the naivety and disregard of the possibility of intelligent movement of Triffids the scariest of all. It was as if no one could see the threat of a self propelling giant stinging plant before it actually when out and attacked.

 

The danger of the triffids is one that most of the characters in the book are slow to comprehend, but most of them had never had any real contact with them before so that is largely understandable. Bill, on the other hand, has worked with triffids for years, and despite his knowledge of them - and the theories but forward by his friend Walter - he still seems slow to grasp their true nature. This leads on to my next question:

 

5) Do you think Bill is convincing as an authority on triffids?

4) John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

I enjoyed the concept enormously, and admired that he decided to kill off the majority of the population with a mysterious plague, leaving bunches of suvivors rather than a still-full society that was now blind.

 

One of the points made in the book is how much effort man has to put into just staying alive. From the growing of food to it's processing to eat, a lot of work is required and without sight that job becomes nearly impossible. It is quite likely that plague or not, virtually all of the blind would have died sooner or later as stores of food were used up so - to a point - the plague really is just a way to get the blind out of the way and to move the story forwards.

 

The author Brian Aldiss is famous for having referred to The Day of the Triffids as being a "cosy catastrophe" and when you look at the evidence it's not hard to see why. Bill doesn't have any parents, family or friends he feels compelled to seek out and help when the end comes. He quickly meets up with Josella and pretty quickly she too is unhindered by family. Over the course of the rest of the novel a lot of the obstacles that present themselves to Bill largely go away without his having to do much about them, so:

 

6) Do you feel Bill has an easy time of it? Do you feel Brain Aldiss is right to call the novel a cosy catastrophe?

 

 

[Chrissy]

5) Do you think Bill is convincing as an authority on triffids?

No! He seems to consider himself such because he was stung as a child, but he seems incapable of looking at things in any manner other than in a bland and unquestioning way. I kept waiting for some revelation from him, or for him to experience some kind of epiphany about the whys and wherefores of the Triffids. He was like that throughout the book on other matters too. It was always someone else that did the thinking, the expanding of thoughts etc. Little Susan had more intelligent verve and integrity about the Triffids than anyone in my opinion.

 

 

6) Do you feel Bill has an easy time of it? Do you feel Brain Aldiss is right to call the novel a cosy catastrophe?

Yes I really do. Josella is initially found being held captive by an abusing male, and once freed loses her family and other familiar people pretty mcuh immediately. Susan loses her family one after the other and has been running the gauntlet of the triffids for some time before Bill finds her. Bill encounters a few distressing moments, but is able to walk away from them unscathed both emotionally and physically. It never reaches a point of desperation for Bill, there is always an alternative direction he can take.

 

As Bill features as the centre of the novel, because he has 'an easy time of it', it means the experience of reading it is made easier. You certainly couldn't call the novel gritty.

[Raven]

Have we really only got three people reading this?

[wickedvoodoo]

Hmm I read this at the end of last year for the first time when I was on an old school sci-fi binge. I'll have a pop at a few of these questions.

 

 

Who was your favourite character?

 

Can I say none? For me, this wasn't book where the characters leapt out as being particularly likeable, nor essential enough to the plot to get them by. This book was all about the plot for me, all the strengths were in the arc and not in the characters. You could have switched out / subtracted / added to these characters an awful lot without having to change the greater story any great deal. For me that has to be marked as a fault.

 

 

The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the Triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

 

Yeah, in a way they are quite scary. They are an eerie and memorable foe. I remember my mother bugging me to read this years ago(partly why I think I waited so long to read it I think) and she always mentioned how she thought the Triffids were terrifying. It's the unrelenting, uncompromising nature of them. Also, who as a kid didn't spend enough time mucking around in the garden / park / woods to get tripped or caught up in a vine. We've all been whipped by the branch that the person in front of us has let spring back. And so I think we can all image these things a little too well, which is why they are scarier than some slimy alien or even an armoured predator. Those things are just a bit daft.

 

 

John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

 

Hmm. To be fair it was a rather ambitious idea he tried to pull off. He almost nailed it. Almost. Despite not liking some aspects of this book, I'd still give it a generally positive review. Also, there are a lot of books and movies that have paid homage / pinched bits from this story. That suggests he didn't do too badly, right?

 

 

Do you feel Bill has an easy time of it? Do you feel Brain Aldiss is right to call the novel a cosy catastrophe?

 

Easy and cosy are probably not the right words, it does get fairly tough for him at times. However I think he brought too much of it on himself to truly defend him. He was a bit useless at times, and a bit of a wimp at others. He wasted a lot of time maintaining a moral high ground that I didn't think was appropriate or realistic considering what had happened. I'd have been getting out of some of the situations he found himself in ASAP, whereas he seemed to linger at immense risk to himself. Sign of the times maybe, and of Wyndham's background, that Bill is so gentlemanly? More modern attempts at similar situations tend to go with a grittier, less compromising character, which is closer to what I think most of us would become if we woke up to what happened in this book.

 

 

All my little whinges aside, I did (mostly) enjoy this book. I'm just picky about character writing. Wyndham's always seems a bit flat. The triffids themselves though - bravo.

Edited July 12, 2011 by wickedvoodoo

[Ooshie]

Whoops, late again, sorry Raven...

 

1) Who was your favourite character?

 

I didn't find any of the characters tremendously, but on balance Bill was probably my favourite. Like lauraloves, I liked the way he didn't give up on finding Josella, although I'm not sure that was tremendously realistic. I think in a real disaster you would be too busy just trying to survive to worry about finding someone you only just met.

2) The book has several distinct phases; the collapse of society in London; the search for Josella and life at Shirning, which was your favourite section and why?

 

It's hard for me to choose, because I enjoyed each phase of the book. Imagining just how quickly society as we know it could disintigrate fascinates me, along with the fact that we have organised ourselves into large towns and cities which could not survive a failure of technology for any reason. I enjoyed the search for Josella even though it maybe seems just a bit too romantic. But maybe my favourite will have to be life at Shirning, when the realities of trying to survive in the new world and fend off the Triffids become clear.

3) The novel is often billed as being a horror story. Did you find the Triffids scary and if so when did you feel they were most effective?

 

I did find the Triffids very scary. Plants are everywhere, and the thought of a type that could deliberately choose to blind humans, while showing awareness enough to hide when necessary and hunt/surround human habitations is pretty freaky! I thought they were most effective when large numbers of them were converging around Shirning.

4) John Wyndham is big on ideas, but not always as good with his story telling. Do you think this was a case of concept over story?

I did enjoy the story, but only with a pretty large dose of suspension of disbelief at some parts. However, I was always interested in finding out what would happen next and read it pretty quickly.

 

5) Do you think Bill is convincing as an authority on triffids?

 

 

No, as an authority on Triffids he really was a bit of a failure! For me, that was one of the least convincing parts of the story.

 

 

6) Do you feel Bill has an easy time of it? Do you feel Brain Aldiss is right to call the novel a cosy catastrophe?

 

Everything did certainly seem to fall into place quite easily for Bill. And I had expected the novel itself to be more horrific, whereas most of the horror really came when I was thinking more deeply about things in the story.

[lauraloves]

5) Do you think Bill is convincing as an authority on triffids?

 

In a way yes because he has studied them, but I personally think Susan was more of an authority as she was studying them after eveything had happened, unlike Bill.

 

 

6) Do you feel Bill has an easy time of it? Do you feel Brain Aldiss is right to call the novel a cosy catastrophe?

 

Compared to eveyone else in the book yes. Josella looses her family very quickly in the book, Susan looses everybody too, and a lot of people have lost their sight.

[Raven]

5) Do you think Bill is convincing as an authority on triffids?

Not really, no!

 

In Bill's defence there are things that can be inferred by implication; he got a job working on a triffid farm because of his good school results in biology, so his knowledge may very well be more academic than practical and this isn't something that would necessarily come out in the course of recounting this story.

 

Having said that, though, when presented with evidence of the triffids intelligence, he does seem to miss joining up a lot of the dots . . .

 

His friend Walter gives him a pretty big kick and then there are the encounters in London and the events during his travelling with Coker, but Bill's theories never really seem to coalesce into anything definite. Later in the book he claims to have ignored the triffids, because of his earlier job, and it is left to Susan to fill the role of triffid expert.

 

As much as I like the character, I think Bill would have been more convincing if he had formulated some of the opinions he recounts himself.

 

I sure hope Michael Beadley doesn't regret putting him in charge of triffid research!

 

6) Do you feel Bill has an easy time of it? Do you feel Brain Aldiss is right to call the novel a cosy catastrophe?

 

When I first heard Triffids described as a "cosy catastrophe" I was up in arms about it (I think I can remember shouting at the TV, in fact!), but having re-read the book several times since then I'm actually coming around to the idea.

 

Certainly Bill witnesses a lot of unpleasant things, but he doesn't really suffer much himself.

 

By a fluke of chance he survives the comet debris and by the end of the first day he is sharing a bed with a pretty good looking young gal. By the end of the second day she's offering to have his children (and he comes pretty close to signing up for two more wives as well!).

 

No small wonder that I've been praying for the end of the world since I was nineteen, then!<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

 

Okay. so he has set-backs and frustrations, but most of his problems seem to resolve themselves (the blind dying of the plague, the side-stepping of the multiple wives issue etc) and he eventually ends up in a nice country pile with a wife and adopted daughter living - what we are told - is a richer and more rewarding life.

 

I'd say he has it pretty easy, though many others in the story - obviously - do not.

[Chrissy]

I have placed The Day Of The Triffids on my 'I thought I knew the story until I actually read it' list of books. It sits alongside such classics as Bram Stoker's Dracula and Mary Shelley's 'Frankenstein'.

 

Giant man-eating plants take over the world and they get dealt with by brave survivors. This is not quite how the story goes, and I think it is more thought provoking then I ever actually considered. Although the story is dated in some respects in how the women were depicted, I really liked both Josella's and Susan's characters and I found myself wanting to hear more from them as well as about them.

 

 

[Kylie]

I read this a few years ago and think I remember enough to have a crack at most of the questions (I don't have time for a re-read right now). I'll try to get stuck into it this weekend, Mr Raven sir!

Edited July 15, 2011 by Kylie

[Raven]

More questions!

 

Do you feel Bill has an easy time of it? Do you feel Brain Aldiss is right to call the novel a cosy catastrophe?

 

Easy and cosy are probably not the right words, it does get fairly tough for him at times. However I think he brought too much of it on himself to truly defend him. He was a bit useless at times, and a bit of a wimp at others. He wasted a lot of time maintaining a moral high ground that I didn't think was appropriate or realistic considering what had happened. I'd have been getting out of some of the situations he found himself in ASAP, whereas he seemed to linger at immense risk to himself. Sign of the times maybe, and of Wyndham's background, that Bill is so gentlemanly? More modern attempts at similar situations tend to go with a grittier, less compromising character, which is closer to what I think most of us would become if we woke up to what happened in this book.

 

Bill wrestles with the idea helping others several times before doing so is then forced upon him. The Beadley group came to the decision that the best way to proceed was to get on with their own preservation, Coker took the opposite view. Later in the novel, Miss Durrant leads a group that is trying to maintain a way of life that has largely vanished. So:

 

7) Which group do you think were right, and would you have joined them?

 

Although the story is dated in some respects in how the women were depicted, I really liked both Josella's and Susan's characters and I found myself wanting to hear more from them as well as about them.

 

The female characters in Triffids are generally quite headstrong, but they also seem to have an Achilles heal of some kind. When Bill first meets Josella she claims that she isn't the type to breakdown at the first sign of trouble, and yet she does seem to spend a good deal of the book crying on his shoulder, so:

 

8) Are women portrayed well in Triffids? What do you think are their strengths and weaknesses?

 

------------

 

Have any of you got hold of a copy of The Day of the Triffids on DVD, or watched the copy here?

 

 

[Chrissy]

I have the dvd, and plan on watching it this week. I am happy to pass this on when I have watched it if anyone wants to borrow it.

 

 

[Chrissy]

I have finished the DVD, which I thought was a pretty good adaptation of the book. The music is a bit intense at times, which made me chuckle, but aside from that I thought it captured the book well.

 

ANYONE WANTING TO BORROW THIS DVD (6 X 1/2 hour episodes, with comprehensive DVD notes) ~ JUST LET ME KNOW.

[Raven]

Anyone want to answer the last set of questions before I post some more tomorrow?

[Raven]

I guess not!

 

Well, as I've already written them, and on the off-chance that someone might answer one day . . .

 

9) The Day of the Triffids was first published in 1951, and a lot has changed in the world since then. How do you feel the book has dated? Does it show its age, or is it a timeless classic?

 

10) Bill and Josella hit things off pretty quickly; the day after they first meet they are contemplating having children together, is this convincing? (do you think it would have taken longer, or do you feel a real-life Josella would have ditched Bill when they met up with a larger group?).

 

11) Is this the first post-apocalyptic you have read? If yes, would you read another?

 

12) Is this the first John Wyndham novel you have read? If yes, would you read another?

 

 

[Janet]

I guess not!

 

Well, as I've already written them, and on the off-chance that someone might answer one day . . .

I didn't re-read this for the circle (sorry, no time!) so I'm a bit hazy as the older I get, the less sticks. Anyway, hopefully my answers are better than nothing!

 

9) The Day of the Triffids was first published in 1951, and a lot has changed in the world since then. How do you feel the book has dated? Does it show its age, or is it a timeless classic?

I read this at school and again last year. I couldn't remember much about the storyline, despite not only reading it before but also watching the BBC series in the 1980s (which was repeated last year - I watched one episode and thought it rather dated!). However to me, the book didn't feel dated at all.

 

10) Bill and Josella hit things off pretty quickly; the day after they first meet they are contemplating having children together, is this convincing? (do you think it would have taken longer, or do you feel a real-life Josella would have ditched Bill when they met up with a larger group?).

I felt it was quite convincing. I think their desire to have children fairly quickly was probably due to some built-in survival defence mechanism. It didn't feel unbelievable to me.

 

11) Is this the first post-apocalyptic you have read? If yes, would you read another?

I've had a look at the lists of post-apocalyptic novels on Wikipedia and it lists The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which I have read (not sure if that really counts though?) but that's it. I'm planning to read The War of the Worlds at some stage too.

 

12) Is this the first John Wyndham novel you have read? If yes, would you read another?

Yes it was the first and yes, as a result I now have The Kraken Wakes, The Midwich Cuckoos and The Chrysalids on my 'to read' pile.

 

The only reason I bought and re-read 'Triffids' was because I stumbled across a version with the same copy I had in the 1980s, and the three I've listed above I managed to find with matching covers - I'm not 100% convinced I'd have bought them to read otherwise!

[Raven]

10) Bill and Josella hit things off pretty quickly; the day after they first meet they are contemplating having children together, is this convincing? (do you think it would have taken longer, or do you feel a real-life Josella would have ditched Bill when they met up with a larger group?).

I felt it was quite convincing. I think their desire to have children fairly quickly was probably due to some built-in survival defence mechanism. It didn't feel unbelievable to me.

 

I think this is something that dates the book. It might be a hang-over from the wartime spirit, when couples often met and got married in a short space of time, but I think Bill and Josella's relationship is very much of its time. I suspect that if the book had been written today, they may well have ended up in the sack that first night, but I'm not convinced they would feel so tied to each other thereafter.

 

Is that an indictment on current morals and relationships? Possibly!

 

The only reason I bought and re-read 'Triffids' was because I stumbled across a version with the same copy I had in the 1980s, and the three I've listed above I managed to find with matching covers - I'm not 100% convinced I'd have bought them to read otherwise!

 

I've got over half-a-dozen different versions of Triffids, both in paper and hardback. My favourite is still the first version I read when I was at Uni (the cover image of which is in the first post of this thread).