Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes

[Nollaig]

Synopsis from Amazon:

Charlie Gordon, IQ 68, is a floor sweeper, and the gentle butt of everyone's jokes, until an experiment in the enhancement of human intelligence turns him into a genius. But then Algernon, the mouse whose triumphal experimental tranformation preceded his, fades and dies, and Charlie has to face the possibility that his salvation was only temporary.

I haven't written a proper review for this, and probably won't, but it's a good enough book to warrant it's own thread so DISCUSS!

 

I read the whole book in one night, because it's not all that long and it's very easy to read. I'd seen a film adaptation of the novel, and didn't realise the novel was in first person. It's written very welll - the transition from unintelligent to genius is quite smooth,

though the return trip isn't quite as convincing. I really liked Charlie, both versions of him. Essentially one was defined by emotional response, the other, intellectual response, and the way the two contrasted when the genius found himself haunted by the child was quite unsettling. That was actually my favourite aspect of the novel, because (being a Philosophy grad with particular love for Phil/Mind&Science) I'm fascinated by what defines a person, and in this case the two intellectual poles actually resulted in a mind organising its experiences into those of two different people, when in actuality it's exactly the same person acting under different mental capacities.

 

 

Anyway, I didn't cry or find it particularly sad, but then I didn't think I would.

 

Charlie doesn't know what he's lost, and in a lot of ways he's much better off at the end of the book.

 

Essentially the book held a philosophical, theoretical fascination for me, rather than an emotional one. I was more sad about Algernon dying than anything that happened to Charlie. An excellent book though. I'd be interested in reading the short story that preceeded it.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Nollaig

[Weave]

Hi Noll

 

 

I have read 'Flowers for Algernon' a few times and you know, I was always in two minds about Charlie, part of me felt that Charlie should have remained as he was, the better the devil you and all and part of me felt that Charlie deserved a chance to be more than what he felt he was.

 

Charlie has been lead to believe that because of his low IQ he is unworthy of certain things and sees the chance for intellect, to me as a form of acceptance because he would show people he was improving himself.

 

I felt sorry for both Algernon and Charlie they both played their part and both lost something and Charlie (for awhile) gain a perspective of a life he saw as 'normal', which leads to more questions that I won't bore you with.

 

'Flowers for Algernon' for me was very much about how people are seen, what do you as a person consider a low IQ? doesn't everyone in their own way strive to improve but Charlie took a step further.

 

 

[Pixie]

Interesting view point, Nollaig.

I found the book terribly sad, but I have a difference in opinion.

 

On an intellectual level, it seems that Charlie does not know what he has lost. But is he better off in some ways? I don't know. Why did he want to leave flowers on Algernon's grave? That seems to suggest that he knew something, at least emotionally or subconsciously. The death of the mouse was perhaps a reflection of his own intellectual death.

 

[Nollaig]

*EPIC RANT ALERT*

 

 

Weave: Feel free to chatter about any questions you have, that's what the thread is for and I always love hearing different viewpoints. I hadn't actually thought about it in terms of deserving - did he DESERVE to be more or should he have stayed the same, well - if I had answered that yesterday I would have said straight out he was better to do what he did because when he reverted he remembered virtually nothing of it anyway, but Pixie made an interesting point about his 'intellectual death' and the subsoncious or emotional recollection of it.

 

Hmm... I don't think the ultimate point of the book is so much to focus on such questions as to raise them and leave the reader decide, while simply telling a difficult story, so I'm not going to dwell too much on this either way. It's very possible something, an impression maybe, of the intelligence was left - after all the doctors argued that intelligence isn't something that can be weighed and increased but a capacity you either fill or you don't. And it's difficult because Charlie didn't know what he was agreeing to in the first place, but at the same time the one thing that remained with him at all levels was his desire for self-improvement, and I think that if the initial Charlie could be made to understand the significance of what he did, that he would have chosen to do it anyway.

 

I personally feel it was worth it, because I don't feel he 'lost' much so much as gained a chance he was never supposed to have, and he made a difference with it. Not only did he contribute to something that may be developed in that future into a permenent solution to mental retardation, but he ended up too unintelligent to understand what he 'lost' - so yes to us it's a frightening concept because we know what he was, but he doesn't, not really, even if there's an impression of it in his mind.

 

I guess the reason I don't find it sad is because I don't think of him as losing. I don't feel sorry for him - sure none of us would want to live in Warren, but we also saw the way he will be cared for - he genuinely will. We also saw how he changed the attitudes of the people in the bakery - they were scared, but then they became more understanding and swore to look after him. He was far happier in his ignorance than he was knowing the truth, but in knowing the truth he changed it so people had more respect, and ultimately ended up somewhere he would be cared for and even loved, probably happier than he ever would have been as a genius. I can't view that as a loss. I was sad over Algernon because he actually died. Poor mouse.

 

Edited July 10, 2010 by Nollaig

[Weave]

 

Poor Algernon, I was always sad he died because unlike Charlie, he did not have a choice about the procedure.

 

Charlie already wanted to learn and when Alice, Professor Nemur and Doctor Strauss present him with the chance of improved intelligent with the procedure, he takes it because I feel Charlie had worked as hard as he possibly could to improve himself and then a chance like this is presented to him, in his own way, Charlie thinks he has nothing to lose and that's what led me to feel that he deserved the chance to improve himself, whatever the cost. As the story progresses, you see the vast change in Charlie, the fact that he is asking questions he would never have asked before in his work environment, etc (do you think that the questions were always there but Charlie in his limited capacity was unable to ask them and the procedure may or may not have brought them forward?).

 

Then from the points of views of Professor Nemur and Doctor Strauss, they have created this huge success in Charlie but then resent him for questioning them, because they have created a new Charlie but effectively want to continue to treat him as old Charlie.

 

Throughout the book Charlie cannot get away from the person he was and its particularly sad when he realises he is losing his intelligence and choosing to go Warren.

 

By the end of the book Charlie (as you know) does not know what he has lost, which is sad but at the same time, almost a kindness because I think it would incredibly difficult to cope with the life you have left behind but at least he had the opportunity to see his parents (even though they did not recognise him), his sister. Also the fact that he chooses to go to a place where no~one will know about the procedure shows to me that Charlie knew on some level that he would not remember and not be in a place where there is chance he could be reminded of it all, which is also sad. His final act of asking flowers to be put on Algernon shows a glimpse of the innocence of Charlie because he believes there will be a grave for Algernon.

 

[Nollaig]

 

The fact that Charlie (in his original limited capacity) wanted to better himself, versus what was essentially a role reversal later on between him and the scientists raises an interesting point about the capacity for choice and how it's all relative. By the end of the novel Charlie's capacity for choice changes drastically, but by comparison the choice-making and attitudes of the scientists increasingly seems less intelligent. (Not informing Charlie of some aspects, treating him like a test subject etc.) I think that raises an interesting view of intelligence - there's no such thing as 'unintelligent' or 'intelligent' independent of each other - and that seems like an obvious thing when it's said (everything is relative), BUT, it's very easy to forget it.

 

As for whether the questions were always in Charlie's mind regarding other parts of his life - I don't think so. To me that's like suggesting a monkey has such questions in it's mind - if only we increased it's intelligence. I think such questioning and thought processes are a direct result of both the level of intelligence, and how that intelligence interacts with it's environment.

 

I definitely think the saddest bit was when he was actually losing his intelligence. That is a concept any of us can imagine - and the thought, to me, of say, opening a book one day and not being able to read English - that's a terrifying thought. So yeah, that was pretty sad. But if that was me, the fact that I would know, once it was all over, I wouldn't even remember it anyway, would be a consolation. I don't find things sad, as long as the person does not have the capacity to find that thing sad themselves, if that makes sense.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2010 by Nollaig

[Weave]

Interesting insight Noll, well said

[Kylie]

Great insights everyone. I'm not really that I have anything worthwhile to add.

 

I thought it was a brilliant book and

the struggle between Charlie's emotions and intelligence was very well done. I also found it incredibly sad when Charlie's intelligence started to decline again. I guess he was better for it in the end, but it was heartbreaking witnessing him losing all the knowledge he once craved and held so dear.

 

[Brida]

Though I haven't yet finished the book, I thought I'd post some thoughts here in case I forgot them by the time I'd finish it.

 

First of all, I have to say this is the first SF book I've read (am reading), I think at least, and I'm liking it very much.

I did find one thing a bit irritating

after the operation, when he already became very inteligent, he said he was reading a lot of books and they were dealing with a wide range of subjects. Then he realised that other people he thought were his friends were just using him and making fun of him, and just generally became aware of the fact that life is not as simple and positive as he thought it was, he became sad and empty and whatnot. Anyway, he went to Alice, the teacher and told her about the problems he had encountered, and how he doesn't understand what he's feeling concerning the problems and he even started to annoy her (!!) with his whining, and only when she told him that he has to make decisions for himself and she wouldn't/couldn't do that for him, only then he became aware of that. I mean, he was reading so much (not to mention that he had become aware of things some people didn't even notice or understand), I find it hard to belive that he still hadn't realised by then (from books if nothing else) that everyone encounters problems and has to deal with them, and everyone finds it difficult, it's not just him. I guess I just thought it would become obvious to him earlier on...

 

 

On a lighter note, I found quite a few lines I loved:

 

''Strauss again brought up my need to speak and write simply and directly so that people will understand me. He reminds me that language is sometimes a barrier instead of a pathway. Ironic to find myself on the other side of the intellectual fence. ''

 

''Exceptional refers to both ends of the spectrum, so all my life I've been exceptional.''

 

Edited August 20, 2010 by Brida