All the things they said, they said

[honestfi]

I recall a thread here about readers who scribble in margins of their, or even worse, library books, noting objections or just general comments. Came across one last night in the Robert B Parker book I'm reading:

 

511 - the number of times "said" is used

 

My first reaction....AND? Your point is?

 

(By the way my INTP was tempted to go through the book and prove the person wrong. They had far too much time on their hands.)

 

Okay, at school I was encouraged to reduce the number of times I used the word "said" and in writing in later years I felt dead guilty about using said rather than shrieked, cried, yelled, whispered, grunted, sang, whined...etc, etc you get the gist. But the thing is about these words is that although you get a feel for how it is said, if appropriate, what if they just, well, "say" them....then it's "said" is it not? What is really wrong with the word "said"? And if, like me, you're not looking for especially clever prose, just a banging good plot with bodies in all sorts of weird places, should you really care? Then I read a book on writing stories and novels, and in it is a discussion on said. The upshot: don't try and be too clever. If said fits, said does.

 

Previous novel I read by Parker had a lot of saids too. But although I noted it, I didn't let it bug me. The plot, execution and the humour was what I was looking for, and that's what I got.

 

So. Are you put off by the overuse of said or does it really depend upon what you are reading?

Edited September 30, 2009 by honestfi
Uhh just one more thing

[BookJumper]

I will put up with it if the story's good enough - but I cannot lie, it will vex me. Obviously there are instances in which "said" will do just fine (not every utterance in the world needs drawing attention to), but overuse of the word indicates to me that either the author does not have a real feel of the character's emotions, or he/she cannot be bothered communicating those emotions to us.

 

How much more meaning is there in words like mused, opined, jeered? A world of emotional relations is wrapped up in those single words; writers who don't use them often enough or at all usually need to spell out those emotions in descriptive passages, which are notoriously tricky. Why spend an awkward paragraph telling me that X was very scared when you could just affix "quavered" to his/her last bit of dialogue?

[Janet]

The overuse of 'said' annoys me. It's something my children would have done when they were writing stories at primary school. It shows lack of skill, I think.

 

That said, like BookJumper I will persevere if it's a good book, but it will irritate me!

[Stephanie2008]

The overuse of 'said' annoys me. It's something my children would have done when they were writing stories at primary school. It shows lack of skill, I think.

 

That said, like BookJumper I will persevere if it's a good book, but it will irritate me!

Yeah I agree. I hate when dialogue is really drawn out, writing said or some other word after everytime someone has spoken. I end up skipping and just read between the speech marks

[Scarlette]

Then I read a book on writing stories and novels, and in it is a discussion on said. The upshot: don't try and be too clever. If said fits, said does.

 

I agree with that, although I am all in favour of a well-placed "muttered", "whispered", etc.

 

In general, though, I prefer dialogue to be as uncomplicated as possible. I feel that if a flowing dialogue is suddenly interrupted by a "said" or "joked", it's distracting. I also feel that punctuation, if well used, can be very effective in describing emotion, etc - why waste paper writing "he exclaimed", when this little guy "!" can do the job for you?

[Beccles]

Only sad book bores scribble in margins. I have bought books and seen the notes. "Too much sex" or too much swearing" I agree that swearing should not be used (there are plenty of words to use in the dictionary instead) but the sex reminds me of the good times in the 60's

[Mia]

Then I read a book on writing stories and novels, and in it is a discussion on said. The upshot: don't try and be too clever. If said fits, said does.

 

We must have read the same book! It discouraged people from using alternatives such as shouted, whispered etc as it said it got in the way of the flow of dialogue, and there was nothing wrong with using plain old "said".

 

That said (ha ha), primary school children are taught to use alternatives to "said" to make their writing more interesting!

 

So I guess it's a matter of personal taste. Neither really bother me, I'm more interested in a good plot and the dialogue itself.

[sirinrob]

I will put up with it if the story's good enough - but I cannot lie, it will vex me. Obviously there are instances in which "said" will do just fine (not every utterance in the world needs drawing attention to), but overuse of the word indicates to me that either the author does not have a real feel of the character's emotions, or he/she cannot be bothered communicating those emotions to us.

 

How much more meaning is there in words like mused, opined, jeered? A world of emotional relations is wrapped up in those single words; writers who don't use them often enough or at all usually need to spell out those emotions in descriptive passages, which are notoriously tricky. Why spend an awkward paragraph telling me that X was very scared when you could just affix "quavered" to his/her last bit of dialogue?

Totally agreed - there are plenty of more nuanced words avaialable. even more radical why use 'said' at at all - if its clearly dialog then thats a given. Internal thoughts can use the more nuanced words.

[BookJumper]

even more radical why use 'said' at at all - if its clearly dialog then thats a given. Internal thoughts can use the more nuanced words.

I do understand the need for a "said" substitute - if more than two people are interacting, for instance, the writer will need to signal changes of speaker. That said (hihihi), there are so many solutions to this problem ("interjected" is a good one) that settling for "said" just smacks of laziness and/or lack of talent. I agree that a good story is important; but if I didn't care about quality of language I'd be watching a good CSI story on telly rather than reading a book.

[sirinrob]

I do understand the need for a "said" substitute - if more than two people are interacting, for instance, the writer will need to signal changes of speaker. That said (hihihi), there are so many solutions to this problem ("interjected" is a good one) that settling for "said" just smacks of laziness and/or lack of talent. I agree that a good story is important; but if I didn't care about quality of language I'd be watching a good CSI story on telly rather than reading a book.

Oops forgot about dialogue switching ,and agree with finding "said" lazy.

[~Andrea~]

Oh I totally disagree. I find too many descriptive dialogue tags distracting and amateurish in the same way I do with overuse of adjectives and adverbs. I think descriptive dialog tags should be used sparingly. If a dialog tag is really necessary then 'said' is less obtrusive than say 'giggled'.

 

Really good dialogue should speak (haha) for itself, and descriptive dialog tags often aren't necessary. I prefer the words themselves to indicate the tone. There are also other ways of indicating who is speaking than use of dialog tags.