Maureen Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I have recently read Sputnik Sweetheart, by Haruki Murakami. The book is translated to English by Philip Gabriel. As I have said elsewhere, some sentences sound musical, to the extent that I read them more than once, just because I liked the way they read. As far as I know, I have not read any book which was translated before. Now I have another Murakami in my TBR pile, and this is translated by Alfred Birnbaum. I have not read this book yet, so I cannot really comment if I find this to be so......'musical'. Now obviously I do not read Japanese, so I cannot compare, but how much of the credit should go to the translator? There are more than one way to say a particular word/phrase/sentence. I can say 'read them more than once' or 're-read them', or 'read them twice' for example. So shouldn't the translator be given credit too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 He definitely should! That's what makes translating tricky... It's not only about transcribing the original work in a readable way but the translator should convey the style of the author, find just the right turn of phrase. I haven't ever paid much attention to translators/ tried to compare them (though I'm sure I've read lots of translated books over the years) but I think there definitely are good translators and bad ones... An interesting thing would be to see whether that 'musical quality' is there in the original work or whether it's the translator's touch. I mean in both cases it'd be his doing as he'd have had to find the right turns of phrase, but did he add it or just tried to copy Murakami's style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesilbeach Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 A good translation can make the world of difference to the success of a book. I've actually read quite a few translated works, and I think the mark of a good translator is not to impose their own style on the work. They have to have a fluent, contemporary understanding of both the original and translated language to be able to successfully and honestly translate the work. In fact, when referring to "The Classics", people will often refer to particular translations as opposed to just the name of the original, so important is the role of the translator to the study of the work. There are even awards for the best translations each year - the Guardian reported on the 2008 awards here, with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitra Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 The translation is indeed very important, a bad translation can actually make a book lose some of its beauty, I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I'm trying to be a little more conscious of the translations that I buy now. I constantly worry that I'm not reading the book as the author intended and that something has gotten lost (or added) in the translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraPepparkaka Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I am also a fan of romance books. Now, romance books in general do not have a big budget for translations, so some of the translations that are made are absolutely horrible. Fantasy-books seem to have a bigger budget, for example Terry Pratchett's books are readable in Swedish too, and true to the original idea (which is often better than if they are translated word-for word). But generally it's better to read something in the original language, if it's at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookJumper Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 As soon as I was taught to read in English (11-ish), I stopped reading books translated into Italian: most Italian translators were and still are appalling, especially the ones working for the biggest, most commercial publishers. There is only one edition (the fairly expensive Garzanti) I will look for when I am unable to read the original myself (i.e. Hugo's French or Dostoevskij's Russian). If I have to buy a book translated into English, I will try and get hold of the Penguin edition, they are usually pretty decent (I am currently reading Michael Ende's "The Neverending Story" in Penguin and it's rather good). I might further investigate the translators for Vintage; I am reading Walter Moers' "The City of Dreaming Books" (translated from the German) and it is so well done I wouldn't have guessed the book was translated without reading the author's bio. That's an absolute first for me, and confirms something I have always instinctively suspected: a good translator is an invisible translator, someone who is so good at what they do you barely know they're doing in. Such a translator indeed requires credit. On the other side of the scale, I can give the example of the murderous translator of Harry Potter - who went as far as changing 95% of all character names, including those that are not words with a meaning. Atrocious examples include: Dumbledore = Silente, Snape = Piton, McGonagall = McGrannit. Thus, communication re: the books with friends who'd read it in italian became nigh on impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 That's an absolute first for me, and confirms something I have always instinctively suspected: a good translator is an invisible translator, someone who is so good at what they do you barely know they're doing in. Such a translator indeed requires credit. So your main criteria is for it to be seemless? But what if the translator has made an excellent, seemless (ie: written as if it wasn't translated) job, but changed the style, atmosphere in the process? What if he's made it more his own work than the translation of the author? How can we know whether he's being loyal to the original? On the other side of the scale, I can give the example of the murderous translator of Harry Potter - who went as far as changing 95% of all character names, including those that are not words with a meaning. Atrocious examples include: Dumbledore = Silente, Snape = Piton, McGonagall = McGrannit. Thus, communication re: the books with friends who'd read it in italian became nigh on impossible. They did the same with the french version, which is sooo annoying! Honestly, changing Slytherin into Serpentard, Muggles to Moldu, Hogwarts to Poudlard ??? Don't know what they were thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookJumper Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 So your main criteria is for it to be seemless? But what if the translator has made an excellent, seemless (ie: written as if it wasn't translated) job, but changed the style, atmosphere in the process? What if he's made it more his own work than the translation of the author? How can we know whether he's being loyal to the original? Such cases do exist, especially in the field I'm currently flexing my toes in, which is poetic translation. In my experience however, such cases are clearly flagged on the cover (i.e. "Xyz's Celebrated Translation of the Iliad" or "John Smith's Groundbreaking Rendering of Beowulf"). These are poetic exercises in their own right, and warn the reader that this is the case, However, if I have between my hands a copy of a prose work I'll never be able to read in the original, I'd like for the translator to have done their best to come as close as possible to the style, atmosphere, humour, meaning of the original work - or it might as well be called something else. Hope that makes sense . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 It makes perfect sense... In the case of poetry though, I don't think the translator can really do a perfectly loyal work. I mean, it's like jokes which play on words, which are impossible to translate. (forgive the silly comparison ). In most cases it's probably impossible to get the same poetic effect with the same meaning. So the translator would have to adapt more than for a novel. But of course if his aim IS to reinterpret "groundbreakingly" the poet's work, that's another thing altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readwine Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I just finished The Elegance of the Hedgehog by Muriel Barbery (translated from the French by Alison Anderson). A quick plot summary from Amazon: Ren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 I am now reading Dance Dance Dance, by Murakami, and this one is definately not 'musical' at all. I am enjoying the book, although it makes me kind of 'feeling down', for whatever reasons, but it does not read like the other Murakami I've read. It is difficult to explain, what I mean is - the sentences, how they are constructed are different, although the 'stangeness' part of the story is similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 So could it be that Murakami's trying something different, or do you think it's in the translation? Because sometimes the difference in tone is NOT from the translator, but from the author stepping out of his/her comfort zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 That's what I want to know actually. I guess I would have to read another couple of his books to find out. Both books start about normal everyday things, the lifes described could be anyone's, really, and then out of nowhere this corner of fantasy crops up, and the normal, mediocre life is sucked in the fantasy world. That bit is similar in both books. But the descriptions are totally different. (I love his food preparation/cooking descriptions in this book , and I also enjoy the description of foreign places mentioned ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 That's interesting. Because if it's the actual things he describes, I'd say it's Murakami stretching himself. If it's the way the sentences are constructed to describe things, then it could be the translation. Am I making any sense? I've had quite a lot of wine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 LOL, Ok then. So it could be the translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) J suggests the following: Could you find out about reviews that are made with either the original text or different translations? That's one way to find out, to cross-reference the impressions and experiments. Edited June 7, 2009 by ii typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Good idea. Have just read a few, but haven't come across any that say so. Must be my imagination then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 He has his moments. Interesting that no one else is mentioning the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadya Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I agree with most of the posts here. A lot depends on the translator and it can be difficult work. I think they should get more credit for their work. Once I volunteered to translate some religious texts, English-Dutch. I didn't have to translate a difficult style in those, they were just a few facts about different life topics. But even translating those properly became a bit difficult. I wasn't much of a translater even in those easy texts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosalind Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I used to read all my books in dutch, reason for that was that the town library only has them in dutch. But since 2 years I started buying books instead of borrowing them(I want a library of my own). Since the day I decided to buy and start a collection I've been buying them in english. But for my point translations honestly can suck and take away a lot of the book. I had discussions about books I read in dutch and other people in english because I just thought it wasn't good. After rereading those books again in english I came to the conclusion that translations aren't always that good. Now I have a rule, if possible read the books in the language their written in. So I can read books in dutch, english, german and french now, but at the moment I'm sticking to english ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookJumper Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I came to the conclusion that translations aren't always that good. Now I have a rule, if possible read the books in the language their written in. Agreed, on both counts. However, it may come as a comfort that some translators are better than others: Penguin (the ones with the black covers, I'm pretty sure it's a series...?) do very good translations (for the philosophy half of my B.A. degree I needed to read Greek/German/Danish/etc. texts and couldn't have hoped for more understandable versions), as do Vintage ("The City of Dreaming Books" by Walter Moers, for example, I only realised was translated when I read the author's bio and discovered he was German - the translator has done such a splendid job the language reads beautifully and seamlessly). Usually if I want to read a book in translation I tend to get it in Italian, just because I consumed so many foreign classics in that language as a child my brain likes it better that way. Even then, I distinguish between publishers: Garzanti is my first choice (I read Victor Hugo's "Les Miserabl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadya Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Yes, it's so true. There is often a lot lost when a book is translated. There are books though, which I don't mind reading translated though. But there are writers who have a certain style which I do try to read in their original language if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Addison Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I am reading Victor Klemperer's diaries so obviously that has to be translated into English. Shadow of the Wind had to be translated also ... As had the Anne Frank diaries. That is all I can think of that I've read - oh and I have a book of Goethe's poems - the main text is in german with the English translation underneath - one of them is one of my most looked at - so most looked at that the book falls to that page instantly. And Asterix books of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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