pontalba Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ahhh clearly I was confused..... it dosen't take much. This is my second and a half reading after all. I wasn't sure the first time around, I had to go back and re-re-read! That is the fun of Nabokov. Twisty little fella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 This, I think was what I was talking about several posts back. Do I have this wrong? Which country is he talking about here? Maybe I'm confused. Hi dogmatix, pontalba, I see I am a little late to the party, but I was completely intrigued by the quote that you, dogmatix, highlighted, where VN uses the phrase "rather appalling country" about Russia, as you correctly suggested. The thought crossed my mind that you also might be thinking of the time(s), as I was, when VN commented that his regret at leaving Russia was not the loss of his wealth, which was confiscated, but rather the loss of the countryside of his fondest childhood memories. The contrast of the two thoughts is indeed striking and I have been scratching my head since, as to how he could possibly use the word "appalling." Finally, it has seemed to me that VN was prompted to realize that life for Mademoiselle with the Nabokov's was not so much fun, being restricted to the single mis-pronounced word "giddy-yeh" (for "where"), and perhaps lacking accustomed amenities in a rustic environment (and here I am completely guessing), with muddy roads, cold weather and so on. For VN himself, life was not so bad at all, and he was accustomed to it; but for an imported governess it might have felt rather different, as he describes at length. It seems like an interesting example of a single person seeing the same situation from two different perspectives, at two different times, in two different contexts, and (gallantly) choosing to voice (or correct) the governess's perspective. To me that sounds like the gesture of an open-minded and appreciative man, even if his remark comes across as somewhat judgmental about the rosiness of her memories. It seems to me like a complicated set of perspectives that he is trying to grapple with at once. All of which I think says about the same thing that Pontalba said, but with many more words. The other possibility, that he might have been referring to his view of the "appalling" situation of the Country under the Bolsheviks at the time he was writing Speak Memory just doesn't seem to really come into it as a possibility. He was a much more careful writer than that, to permit such confusion, I would say. Anyway, now, finally now, I am rounding the corner into Chapter Two, hoping to catch up and freshen all these thoughts in my head. Forward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 "Tip, leaf, dip, relief" Ahhhhh. It's the moment of conception from which all the wonder grows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 "Tip, leaf, dip, relief" Ahhhhh. It's the moment of conception from which all the wonder grows. Dogmatix, Yes! The exact moment, and he noticed it precisely! And remembered it. That is why it seemed more than a little strange to me to read a short and very enigmatic paragraph in Chapter 1, which he seemed to slip in almost unnoticeably at the end of Section 2 there. But even so, the individual mystery remains to tantalize the memoirist. Neither in environment nor in heredity can I find the exact instrument that fashioned me, the anonymous roller that pressed on my life a certain intricate watermark whose unique design becomes visible when the lamp of art is made to shine through life's foolscap. Here he is, in effect, answering a question that hasn't been asked, namely, "Where did your talent come from?" and in effect he is saying "I don't know. Talent I may have, yes. But why? I don't know." He has completed his musings on the nature of time, and the impenetrable walls of the abyss, and has already segued into beautiful pictorial descriptions of the early memorable events of his life, especially the endearing memory of the small child, kneeling in his pajamas and peering out the window on a train journey while his heels get cold. He has even said, to open that paragraph How small the cosmos (a kangaroo's pouch would hold it), how paltry and puny in comparison with human consciousness, to a single individual recollection, and its expression in words! I may be inordinately fond of my earliest impressions, but then I have reason to be grateful to them. They led the way to a veritable Eden of visual and tactile sensations. Here is an overwhelmingly powerful description of the majesty of human consciousness -- greater than any paltry, pouch-sized cosmos! -- and an undeniable assertion of its significance in his own life. And yet. And yet, where did his talent come from? He cannot tell, he tells us. Carrying forward the thought of your earlier post, about the possibility of the Divine in his thought, and using his own very image of surpassing even the cosmos, it would seem that here is yet another indication that in some way he thinks of the entirety of existence as being larger than merely the lives we live here. All expressed in an almost unnoticeable, but overwhelming, six lines of his writing. Véra was once quoted as saying (paraphrased) that notions of the Divine run through all of all of her husband's writing, not just his poetry. I am beginning to believe her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I've just finished...... Wonderful. Thanks for the recommendtion Pontalba On the vein of the Divine, the bigger picture, spirituality; look at how he describes love "Whenever I start thinking of my love for a person, I am in the habit of immediately drawing radii from my love-from my heart, from the tender nucleus of a personal matter-to monstously remote points of the universe. ...whose remoteness seems a form of insanity" Definitely thought there was something out there bigger than him. And by the way it breaks my heart to read about the love he and Vera had for their son. This will NOT be my last Nabokov! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 And by the way it breaks my heart to read about the love he and Vera had for their son. This will NOT be my last Nabokov! Dogmatix, That is absolutely the most heart-stealing scene of the whole book for me, when Vera is standing in the cold with her son on the railroad overpass, shifting her weight from foot to foot to stay warm, waiting patiently as her son waits patiently to see the train signal change, or the train to come, while Vladimir looks at the whole scene and one can just imagine the depth of his love for Vera, showing such a depth of patient love for their only child and the son he also loves so much. Welcome to the club! YAY! I hope there may never be a last Nabokov for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Oh dogmatix! I am so glad you enjoyed him so much. Really and truly! And I fully agree, may there never be a last Nabokov! His books can be reread and enjoyed over and over again, because there is always another layer to discover and explore. You may and will enjoy some more than others, but will always need to go back for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Yes, well I will certainly re-read this one. It's really an autobiography second to so much else. It's a treatsie on the creative process, the immeasurable depths of the mind and thought, memory (of course) and how it shapes us and we it (He says something towards the end about how he has tried not to create but narrate his memories) and at the end it becomes very apparent it is a love story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 YAY!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 VN really treads the line between revealing his life and maintaining his privacy. And yes, it is a love story to his family. I love the way he addresses and refers to Vera as 'You'. Because to him, she is the only You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 . . . and at the end it becomes very apparent it is a love story. Yes indeed! And love stories knock me over, every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Yes, well I will certainly re-read this one. It's really an autobiography second to so much else. It's a treatsie on the creative process, the immeasurable depths of the mind and thought, memory (of course) and how it shapes us and we it (He says something towards the end about how he has tried not to create but narrate his memories) and at the end it becomes very apparent it is a love story. You little monkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 You little monkey. I try:smile2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 Actually, I thought it was very touching when the girl, Colette, kissed him on impulse when they were at the beach and on impulse he said "You little monkey", not knowing how to respond. It showed great affection the way he defended Colette on numerous occassions when they were vacationing as children at Biarritz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 I loved that bit too muggle, it was beautiful. And when he sees her for the last time in Paris, I remember thinking how Nabokov really loves and more importantly likes women. I always feel that he held women in awe a bit. He was a sensualist to the Nth degree and almost worshiped women, but in a good way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I loved that bit too muggle, it was beautiful. And when he sees her for the last time in Paris, I remember thinking how Nabokov really loves and more importantly likes women. I always feel that he held women in awe a bit. He was a sensualist to the Nth degree and almost worshiped women, but in a good way. That is an excellent description and really hits the nail on he head. Muggle you've got a little VN in you don't ya? So Pontalba I won't be ready for a while (got several others screeming to be read) but what book should be next in my VN journey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 That is an excellent description and really hits the nail on he head. Muggle you've got a little VN in you don't ya? So Pontalba I won't be ready for a while (got several others screeming to be read) but what book should be next in my VN journey? Dogmatix, I have thought about that, and you could go a couple of different ways, one being to start at the beginning with Mary then King, Queen, Knave and down the chronological line. That is what I decided to do and I am enjoying myself, BUT OTOH..... You could read The Real Life of Sebastian Knight which is Nabokov's first novel written in English, a sort of detective story about a writer that is dead. A quest by his half brother to find the real brother, with a twist--of course. Or, Pnin a story about a professor that is a bit like Nabokov himself, but not. Timofey Pnin was one of Nabokov's most charming and sweet natured characters.......ever. He is in fact my favorite character in any Nabokov novel so far. If I have to recommend only one.....it'd be a toss up between The Real Life of Sebastian Knight and Pnin. Weighted in favor of Pnin. I hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 What are your thoughts on going straight to Lolita??? I am about finished with Speak, Memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Dogmatix, I have thought about that, and you could go a couple of different ways, one being to start at the beginning with Mary then King, Queen, Knave and down the chronological line. That is what I decided to do and I am enjoying myself, BUT OTOH.....You could read The Real Life of Sebastian Knight which is Nabokov's first novel written in English, a sort of detective story about a writer that is dead. A quest by his half brother to find the real brother, with a twist--of course. Or, Pnin a story about a professor that is a bit like Nabokov himself, but not. Timofey Pnin was one of Nabokov's most charming and sweet natured characters.......ever. He is in fact my favorite character in any Nabokov novel so far. If I have to recommend only one.....it'd be a toss up between The Real Life of Sebastian Knight and Pnin. Weighted in favor of Pnin. I hope that helps. How completely decisive of you:friends0: BTW got to play with some more lions the other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Lions! Ohhh, pictures? Gotta love any cat, big or small. I remember years ago, there was some silly movie on tv, something to do with Africa, and animals taking over (hah, maybe they'd do a better job), but all I remember of the whole thing is this house being taken over by lions and after they broke down the shutters and got into the house, they were in the kitchen and the way they leapt up on the counter and tables was so....well just like our little kitty kats...funny to see the same movements translated into huge size. Re the Nabokov, let me know which one you decide, maybe another thread is in our future.....I'll post a review of Pnin I wrote in the Reviews section here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 What are your thoughts on going straight to Lolita??? I am about finished with Speak, Memory. Ah, well there is that wonderful possibility as well muggle! Now that you know Nabokov a bit, I think it is a great idea. But dogmatix did say she'd tried Lolita and didn't care for it. As it happens Lolita was the first Nabokov I read. Of course the thread on B&R, but there was a previous thread on another forum that introduced me to her. To me, Nabokov's writing is addictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I do think If I'd warmed up with something else VN irst I may have enjoyed Lolita more. I just felt over my head and couldn't appreciate the book. I knew it was something great but I just wasn't up to par. Would have been a great college read and I may yet read it again once my level of sophistication rises to a more appropriate level. Plus the B&R thread was too intimidating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Continuing pontalba's earlier thought, I would think that the story of Pnin was not intimidating -- a gentle, cuddly, teddy-bear of a man making his way through life among friends and not-so-much-friends. With Sebastian Knight being, in effect, Nabokov's gentler version of a detective story -- having a corpse but no killer, for example. I think I have to agree that, for a variety of reasons, they are both more approachable than Lolita, whose fame must at least rest in part upon its boldness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I do think If I'd warmed up with something else VN irst I may have enjoyed Lolita more. I just felt over my head and couldn't appreciate the book. I knew it was something great but I just wasn't up to par. Would have been a great college read and I may yet read it again once my level of sophistication rises to a more appropriate level. Plus the B&R thread was too intimidating. AWK!! That thread was the most fun I'd had on a forum! And more insight into Lolita than I ever could have imagined on my own. Really Timofey Pnin is the antithesis to Humbert Humbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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