Karsa Orlong Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Deadhouse Gates by Steven Erikson Book 2 of The Malazan Book of the Fallen This thread is for discussion of Deadhouse Gates, and will contain spoilers for this book. For any comments about related events/characters/plot from the later books in the series, please use spoiler tags. From Amazon: Weakened by events in Darujhistan, the Malazan Empire teeters on the brink of anarchy. In the vast dominion of Seven Cities, in the Holy Desert Raraku, the seer Sha'ik gathers an army around her in preparation for the long-prophesied uprising named the Whirlwind. Unprecedented in its size and savagery, it will embroil in one of the bloodiest conflicts it has ever known: a maelstrom of fanaticism and bloodlust that will shape destinies and give birth to legends... In the Otataral mines, Felisin, youngest daughter of the disgraced House of Paran, dreams of revenge against the sister who sentenced her to a life of slavery. Escape leads her to Raraku, where her soul will be reborn and her future made clear. The now-outlawed Bridgeburners, Fiddler and the assassin Kalam, have vowed to return the once god-possessed Apsalar to her homeland, and to confront and kill the Empress Laseen, but events will overtake them too. Meanwhile, Coltaine, the charismatic commander of the Malaz 7th Army, will lead his battered, war-weary troops in a last, valient running battle to save the lives of thirty thousand refugees and, in so doing, secure an illustrious place in the Empire's chequered history. And into this blighted land come two ancient wanderers, Mappo and his half-Jaghut companion Icarium, bearers of a devastating secret that threatens to break free of its chains... Set in a brilliantly-realized world ravaged by anarchy and dark, uncontrollable magic, Deadhouse Gates is the thrilling, brutal second chapter in the Malazan Book of the Fallen. A powerful novel of war, intrigue and betrayal, it confirms Steven Erikson as a storyteller of breathtaking skill, imagination and originality - a new master of epic fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm planning on starting the book tomorrow, so here we go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I started it last night! I've only really read the prologue so far, but I'd forgotten how good the beginning is. Throwing us straight into the shoes of Felisin, taken prisoner after the dreaded 'cull of the nobility', as she prepares to be dragged through a bloodthirsty mob on her way to a slaver's ship . . . powerful stuff. I've always loved the image of the priest covered in flies - disgusting, but awesome. God, I love this book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 I remember going straight up to town the day after I finished Gardens of the Moon for the first time, and buying both this and Memories of Ice. I was so excited about it all Can't wait to spend time with Mappo and Icarium again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Aw, Mappo. Yeah, part of the reason Deadhouse Gates is so exciting for me is because it means that soon I'll get to read Memories of Ice, which is possibly my favourite book of the whole series. I noticed a possible discrepancy in the prologue. They refer to some of the guardsmen as 'Red Swords', whereas I was sure they were called 'Red Blades'. Is it a different thing, or is it a mistake, or am I just being petty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Aw, Mappo. Yeah, part of the reason Deadhouse Gates is so exciting for me is because it means that soon I'll get to read Memories of Ice, which is possibly my favourite book of the whole series. Talk about backhanded compliments Poor Deadhouse Gates I noticed a possible discrepancy in the prologue. They refer to some of the guardsmen as 'Red Swords', whereas I was sure they were called 'Red Blades'. Is it a different thing, or is it a mistake, or am I just being petty? Sssssh! SE doesn't do discrepancies - it's the unreliable narrator! ETA: I won't be starting it today - I was too tired to finish my current read last night Edited August 21, 2014 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Talk about backhanded compliments Poor Deadhouse Gates Oh, Deadhouse Gates, I still love you too! Sssssh! SE doesn't do discrepancies - it's the unreliable narrator! Oh, true - it was Felisin's POV after all. I'm going to try and keep my eye out for instances of the unreliable narrator this time through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Awesome quote describing Mappo: ". . . the thousand years that capered like a gleeful goat behind Mappo's eyes." Awesome. Exploding dhenrabi = also awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Oh, true - it was Felisin's POV after all. I'm going to try and keep my eye out for instances of the unreliable narrator this time through. It's a handy excuse, if nothing else I'll have to try and find a list of the continuity errors somewhere I remember reading an interview with him where the interviewer said SE must've kept hundreds of pages of notes in order to keep everything straight and he said nope, it was all in his head Awesome quote describing Mappo: ". . . the thousand years that capered like a gleeful goat behind Mappo's eyes." Awesome. Everything about Mappo's awesome! I started it last night - read the prologue. I'm still wondering why the guards didn't just hack Baudin down when he started getting violent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 It's a handy excuse, if nothing else I'll have to try and find a list of the continuity errors somewhere I remember reading an interview with him where the interviewer said SE must've kept hundreds of pages of notes in order to keep everything straight and he said nope, it was all in his head That explains the continuity errors, then. But, WOW, what a lot of stuff to keep straight without writing it down. I started it last night - read the prologue. I'm still wondering why the guards didn't just hack Baudin down when he started getting violent Good point. I think it said somewhere that Laseen wanted the commoners to have their riots and mobs so that they'd become sick of blood and settle down again. Maybe letting Baudin hurt them was part of the strategy? I want my own little Moby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Bult to Coltaine, on how he got the scar across his face, and on how Duiker survived his attack: "I remember an unarmed man. The lack of weapons in his hands turned my lance at the last moment. I remember Dujek's sword that stole my beauty even as my horse bit his arm crushing bone. I remember that Dujek lost that arm to the surgeons, fouled as it was by my horse's breath. Between us, I lost the exchange, for the loss of an arm did nothing to damage Dujek's glorious career, while the loss of my beauty left me with but the one wife that I already had." "And was she not your sister, Bult?" "She was, Coltaine. And blind." Not only funny, but now we know how Dujek lost his arm And then Duiker tactfully says to him he hadn't noticed the loss of his beauty, to which Bult says, "One must look carefully, it's true." Also, when Duiker watches the divination, the blind boy says, "Two fountains of raging blood! Face to face. The blood is the same, the two are the same and salty waves shall wash the shores of Raraku." So much foreshadowing there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I loved that exchange between Bult and Coltaine. And yeah, I've just read the bit with the Spiritwalker and the conch shell - "salty waves", indeed. And . . . Iskaral Pust! Iskaral Pust! I didn't realise he appeared so early on in the book. He's one of my favourite funny characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Iskaral Pust really needs to choose his staff better Reading it now, I really love how the mystery of Icarium is being held on such a tight leash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I'd managed to completely forget the relevance of the boat Mappo and Icarium found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Iskaral Pust really needs to choose his staff better Reading it now, I really love how the mystery of Icarium is being held on such a tight leash I know, and when Mappo lies to him about the fight that he doesn't remember. I'd managed to completely forget the relevance of the boat Mappo and Icarium found I'm just at the bit where they've met him and the bhokaral have let down the rope. Had to go to a wedding yesterday and lost valuable reading time. I got a bit confused about servants arms - did he have an arm missing anyway and they gave him a new one? I don't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 I got a bit confused about servants arms - did he have an arm missing anyway and they gave him a new one? I don't remember. Yeah, he lost an arm in a battle - then was it Mappo who suggested that he'd been taken by Shadowthrone as leverage over Cotillion (for Apsalar)? And that his new arm was something to do with ST? The book is moving a lot faster than I remember it doing so - the pacing is great for such a long book. I can't remember how many years it was between him writing GotM and DG, but the step up in the quality of his writing is impressive. I'd also heard that he was working on MoI as the second book, then lost the manuscript when his computer broke down, so turned to DG instead. Maybe that has something to do with the sense of urgency that's coming across to me Also, the ramping up of the scale is very apparent and yet it's still only hinting at how big it's going to get. The crossing of the Sekala ford was great - the first real large scale battle in the series I still love the way Iskaral Pust can't keep his internal monologues to himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It's much better than I even remembered it being! I'm still making slow progress because I'm making sure not to rush it - I'm at the bit where Fiddler is woken up by Iskaral Pust using his broom to try and brush spiders out of his beard. Yeah, I just got confused about the arm. I vaguely remembered something about him losing it after getting it caught in a fishernet, but that might have been something else. I got the feeling that Cotillion took him because he felt guilty for possessing Apsalar - "a life given for a life taken" - but I'm still only a third of the way through and there might be more clues later that I've forgotten . . . Maybe SE was just a bit obsessed with giving people new limbs in this book. Can't wait to get to the main Chain of Dogs sequence. I love when Duiker arrives back in the city thinking they've all been destroyed, only to find out that Coltaine isn't going to go down so easily . . . Coltaine is awesome. I have to say, though, I'm not really enjoying Kalam's little side quest. Oh, and I'd forgotten how horrible Felisin and co are to each other. And how awesome Gesler and Stormy are! And the image of that Tiste Andii boat just lurking there in the Nascent with its creepy crew still gives me shivers. I remember when I read that bit in HoC (?) and was like, 'that's that boat from DG!!! ' Who is the crazy mage attacking the boat?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Yeah, I just got confused about the arm. I vaguely remembered something about him losing it after getting it caught in a fishernet, but that might have been something else. I got the feeling that Cotillion took him because he felt guilty for possessing Apsalar - "a life given for a life taken" - but I'm still only a third of the way through and there might be more clues later that I've forgotten . . . Yeah, more clues . . . no answers, just clues The stuff I mentioned that Mappo says comes later. I have to say, though, I'm not really enjoying Kalam's little side quest. That storyline only gets really good once he reaches his destination, I think. Me, I just think anything involving Kalam is brilliant And without it there'd be no Pearl and Lostara Yil I loved the way Duiker, Lull and co went after the Tithansi warlord, and then Duiker thought a Claw had been helping them, but it's only a while later we find out exactly what happened Oh, and I'd forgotten how horrible Felisin and co are to each other. And how awesome Gesler and Stormy are! Felisin is completely unsympathetic, I find. If I had one problem with this book it would be her. But I don't have a problem with it I'd forgotten about Legana Breed giving Stormy his sword. I just loved what he said as he did so: "This weapon is our memory. Carry it, mortal. Learn its weight. Stone ever thirsts for blood." . . . and then we have to wait four books for him to fall out of the sky Who is the crazy mage attacking the boat?? Dunno. I thought they said it was someone who'd been driven mad by the otataral. I haven't seen anything else about it since, and I can't remember anything else about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 That storyline only gets really good once he reaches his destination, I think. Me, I just think anything involving Kalam is brilliant And without it there'd be no Pearl and Lostara Yil I loved the way Duiker, Lull and co went after the Tithansi warlord, and then Duiker thought a Claw had been helping them, but it's only a while later we find out exactly what happened I'm not up to that bit yet - I don't think I even remember it. They've just crossed the river, and the sappers are crying because they've used all their cussers. Felisin is completely unsympathetic, I find. If I had one problem with this book it would be her. I don't mind Felisin, but I remember having this problem with Scillara - I always hated her. I'd forgotten about Legana Breed giving Stormy his sword. I just loved what he said as he did so: "This weapon is our memory. Carry it, mortal. Learn its weight. Stone ever thirsts for blood." Yeah, the T'lan Imass are such buzzkills. I just love how Gesler thinks Legana Breed wants to take Stormy's soul, and volunteers in his place. Those guys! Dunno. I thought they said it was someone who'd been driven mad by the otataral. I haven't seen anything else about it since, and I can't remember anything else about it I was racking my brains thinking it turned out to be someone important in future books. Did the Imass call him a servant of the Chained One, or was that just what they said to Kulp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yeah, the T'lan Imass are such buzzkills. I just love how Gesler thinks Legana Breed wants to take Stormy's soul, and volunteers in his place. Those guys! Last night I read the bit where Gesler breaks Coltaine's hand. That was funny (and a little scary!) I think the T'Lan Imass are my favourite race in the series - just edging out the Tiste Andii and K'Chain Che'Malle. Oh, and the Toblakai of course The only problem I have with the T'Lan Imass is that when I visualise them - especially Tool - they always end up looking like Iron Maiden's mascot, Eddie . . . I was racking my brains thinking it turned out to be someone important in future books. Did the Imass call him a servant of the Chained One, or was that just what they said to Kulp? Oh bloody hell, I can't remember. So much has happened since then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Last night I read the bit where Gesler breaks Coltaine's hand. That was funny (and a little scary!) I love that bit . I've just got to the bit where they're following an undead dragon out of Shadow realm. It's all kicking off! I think the T'Lan Imass are my favourite race in the series - just edging out the Tiste Andii and K'Chain Che'Malle. Oh, and the Toblakai of course The only problem I have with the T'Lan Imass is that when I visualise them - especially Tool - they always end up looking like Iron Maiden's mascot, Eddie . . . I can honestly say I've never had that problem! I do struggle picturing them how they're described, though. The book always says they're short and squat and wide, but I always picture them as being quite tall. I think my favourite race is either the Tiste Edur or the K'Chain Che'Malle. The Andii are a bit miserable for my liking. Is it bad that I only just connected 'Mael' with the word 'maelstrom'? And I just want to scream at everyone who doesn't know what the Jhistal is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) I think my favourite race is either the Tiste Edur or the K'Chain Che'Malle. The Andii are a bit miserable for my liking. You don't like the race that includes Anomander Rake and Korlat? There's no pleasing some people Actually, when you think about it, all the races are pretty miserable Is it bad that I only just connected 'Mael' with the word 'maelstrom'? Pretty bad, yeah ETA: oh yeah, completely forgot why I came in here in the first place Finished it this afternoon. Talk about being put through the emotional wringer . . . ETA2: Still trying to put my thoughts in order. But dear Lord, the scene as Duiker and Nether look on from the walls of Aren . . .just leaves me in bits. Seeing Bult and List go down, Bult trying to get up again, the dogs fighting with him. Then Coltaine . . . Stormy and Gesler looking for Duiker's body. Mappo giving his last elixirs to save the dogs. Poor Mappo, everything he had to go through, and then we find out that he's been lied to all along, and Icarium didn't destroy his village Not to mention that Gothos is Icarium's father. Had to laugh at Moby, and Iskaral Pust and Mogora - there's a match made in heaven That's my favourite ending to a book, that epilogue. First time around I remember being so upset about Coltaine (still am ) and then that happens. Crows, so many crows. Really gives me chills, every time Edited August 29, 2014 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Well done you on finishing it! I can't wait to get to the end - especially since I don't remember the epilogue. I'm 700 pages in and the momentum's building. Everything about Mappo just breaks my heart. And even though I'm looking forward to the end, I'm also kind of dreading it. Pust and Mogora are hilarious. And I love his little bhok'aral acolytes - how he was hanging out of the window throwing rocks at them as Icarium and the rest left the temple. I still don't really like Kalam's storyline . . . and I've never liked Minala either. I think one of the only negative things I have to say about Erikson is that he's very skilled in creating unsympathetic female characters. And is it just me, or is the Path of Hands not really all that relevant in the grand scheme of things? ETA: I forgot to mention . . . TOBLAKAI !!! Edited August 30, 2014 by Signor Finzione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Just finished it. I have the same reaction every Hood-damned time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Pust and Mogora are hilarious. And I love his little bhok'aral acolytes - how he was hanging out of the window throwing rocks at them as Icarium and the rest left the temple. Not to mention refusing to throw the ladder down for him at the end I still don't really like Kalam's storyline . . . and I've never liked Minala either. I think one of the only negative things I have to say about Erikson is that he's very skilled in creating unsympathetic female characters. Aw, I like Minala And Kalam's story becomes all kinds of awesome once he gets to Malaz City And is it just me, or is the Path of Hands not really all that relevant in the grand scheme of things? Hmm, in the grand scheme of things, i.e. the series as a whole, probably not. In terms of this book on its own - well, it wouldn't have been much of a book without it! ETA: I forgot to mention . . . TOBLAKAI !!! I do love the way he keeps telling Felisin to kill Heboric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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