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vodkafan

Gay Marriage legal today in England

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I was going to post this in the "what's up in March" thread but thought it was important enough to have it's own thread....the first proper gay marriages are legal today in England and Wales. I don't have any close gay friends so don't know anybody who is tying the knot or has plans to....it will be interesting to see how many couples get hitched seeing as tthe marriage rates in general are falling.

Up until only a few years ago I was completely against the idea of gay marriage but have now completely reversed my opinion. One of the reasons is my own marriage experiences....I have been married twice (to women) and tried really hard both times but they still failed. So I think marriage is hard. So if two people want to commit and get married then I say good luck to them and nobody should have the right to say they cannot.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26793127

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I think that this is brilliant. The situation for me, as some of you are no doubt aware is a little different in that my partner of 17 years although anatomically male has always wanted to really be female. I knew when we got together that Colin as he was then liked to wear women's clothes, something that his ex wife never knew about, but as we began to explore this together, it became clear that it went much deeper than this, and he really wanted to be a female. Coran has no wish for genital surgery, but has been on female hormones for a number of years which have to some extent feminised the body. She has then lived more or less as a woman since changing her name legally in 2005.  

 

As it stood prior to todays changes, were we to get married as a man and a woman, which Coran still is on his/her birth certificate, then if she were to apply for gender recognition certificate as a woman, we would have had to get divorced. But this has now all changed, so that couples like us who are in a kind of no mans land can now marry without the fear of having to get divorced should the legal gender change. I hope all of this makes sense.

 

The thing is though neither of wants to get married - we would like some sort of legal recognition for our relationship, but marriage to both of has religious connotations which puts us off, plus the fact that Coran has been married before. A civil partnership would really be more the kind of thing that we would like. Now that same sex marriages are legal though, this has left us and many others wondering what will happen to those couples who became civil partners, will they have to effectively break up and marry instead, or will both types of partnership continue to be legal. If so, then will straight couples also be able to have civil partnerships, as if not this becomes discrimination in favour of gay couples ? !   

Edited by Talisman

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Hi June I had completely forgot about your particular circumstances.  About the civil partnerships nothing legally has changed; they can stay as they are or convert to full marriage. Straight couples have always had the right to have a civil partnership since it was invented. So now there are two ways  for everybody to be legally spliced together.  

I got interested in the whole thing of marriage reform since I started researching Victorian times; this now is only the logical outcome of reforms that really picked up pace from the 1850s. It is quite fascinating really. Women used to be owned by their husbands lock stock and barrel; from the 1850s the idea of marriage as an equal contract for both parties started to gain ground.

I wonder where marriage will go? SF writers have for a long time predicted the idea of short fixed- term contract marriages (which could be renewed if both partners wanted). I could see that coming to pass. 

Islam has a type of contract marriage in some countries where two people are married but they live in different houses, each has their own property rights and they see each other or not as they both see fit. That seems fairly civilised.  

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Finally! What took you so long, England & Wales? :)

Jokes aside, same-sex marriages has only been leagal in Sweden since 2009. 

I believe the Netherlands was the first country to leagalize it. And not until the 21st century. 

 

While it's terrific that some countries allow it, it's more depressing to read about countries that strongly forbid it. And where gay people are harrassed and even jailed. 

Edited by emelee

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I am not sure where you got the information about civil partnerships being legal for straight or different sex couples VF, but I believe you are wrong - they were specifically designed as a kind of halfway house to give same sex couples the same legal recognition of marriage without actually calling it that. You are probably getting it mixed up with the idea of civil ceremonies, which is basically a marriage that takes place outside of a church, in a country estate perhaps or a local beauty spot. A civil partnership is to all intents and purposes the same as marriage, but without the religious connotations.

 

I didn't know that about Islam though - fascinating stuff !   

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I have to agree about civil partnerships being in existence for gay people because they couldn't get married in the UK.  I recalled than many hetrosexual couples who did not want to get married complained that they did not have this option available to them when this started.  I have heard in that in France everyone one can chose to marry or a civil partnership regardless of sexual orientation.  

 

I do happen to know someone who'd like to get herself a wife so its possible I would get to attend a gay wedding and get to here "brides you may now kiss".

Edited by Kreader

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Good stuff! :smile2: I'm hoping this same thing will happen in Finland this year (the motion for it has been made, I think we're waiting for the verdict, or a vote by the parliamentary or something, I'm not quite sure what the procedure is because this is one of those new motions that was made by a 'normal' citizen and which got the needed 50,000 signatures in order to go to parliament). Fingers crossed!

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I'm happy to see this happening, everyone should have the right to get married :)

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I am not sure where you got the information about civil partnerships being legal for straight or different sex couples VF, but I believe you are wrong - they were specifically designed as a kind of halfway house to give same sex couples the same legal recognition of marriage without actually calling it that. You are probably getting it mixed up with the idea of civil ceremonies, which is basically a marriage that takes place outside of a church, in a country estate perhaps or a local beauty spot. A civil partnership is to all intents and purposes the same as marriage, but without the religious connotations.

 

I didn't know that about Islam though - fascinating stuff !   

 

Hi June I just checked and you are right about civil partnerships- which glaringly shows that they were only ever considered second best and "not good enough" for straight couples. I am quite surprised by this. 

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Nothing about our crackpot Government surprises me anymore ! They will have to do something though to correct this - either force the same sex couples in existing civil partnerships to convert to marriage, or give us equal rights - it will be interesting though to see how this pans out - I won't hold my breath.

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This is great news! Yes, gay marriage has been legal here in the Netherlands for a while. The more countries that legalise it, the better. If a couple (regardless of their individual genders) wants to get married, they should be able to do so.

 

I have an aunt who's gay, she has a girlfriend, though I have no idea if they'd want to get married or not. My aunt has been married twice to men. I don't see her a lot so we don't talk that much.

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I think it's brilliant! I wish Italy will follow the example, but I know Vatican influence on political issues is still too strong here. I do hope things will change soon.

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I hope things will change here soon, but we're a pretty backwards country sometimes. Unfortunately a conservative Catholic was elected as Prime Minister just last year, and although his own sister is a lesbian who wants to get married, he is strongly against gay marriage. He was actually a trainee priest at my school's church many years ago - that's how religious he is. I feel like we blew our chance because until last year we had an atheist Prime Minister, but unfortunately she wasn't strong enough to stand up to the religious conservatives who rule our parliament.

 

I really don't see the point to dragging one's heels about it. It WILL happen sooner or later (at least in most countries), so why not just do it now? At least with more countries seeing sense and legalising gay marriage, I can only hope that it will put pressure on countries that haven't.

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For me it will always be a case of love is love, gender doesn't come into it. I was lucky enough to get together and marry the one I love, why should anyone be denied this? All that should be required is genuine and heartfelt consent between two adults.

 

I cannot understand ANY argument against gay marriage. Never will.

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^ Would that be Tony Abbott by any chance? Cause I've seen some pretty interesting protests and picketing against him on some websites lately!

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I cannot understand ANY argument against gay marriage. Never will.

 

I couldn't say it better, Chrissy. I live in a country somehow stuck to a medieval conception of family and I feel ashamed of my country sometimes. I do hope things will change, though.

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^ Would that be Tony Abbott by any chance? Cause I've seen some pretty interesting protests and picketing against him on some websites lately!

 

Yes. I hate him!  :banghead:

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Good Luck to all the new legal "married's" out there - enjoy the icing on the cake of your special bond. :party:

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For me it will always be a case of love is love, gender doesn't come into it. I was lucky enough to get together and marry the one I love, why should anyone be denied this? All that should be required is genuine and heartfelt consent between two adults.

 

I cannot understand ANY argument against gay marriage. Never will.

 

I agree completely.  I have heard all sorts of arguments against gay marriage in the media, and not one of them has given me ANY reason to think that gay marriage should not be allowed.  Goodness me, there is enough hate in this world....if two people want to declare their love for each other and show the world that they want to be together, then that's a wonderful thing.

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That´s brilliant. I have to say that it makes the bitter tatste of Croatia having its constitution changed to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman go away a bit. Even though it doesn´t have anything to do with us but progress always makes everything better :)

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This is good news, but one thing I don't understand is the civil union thing.  Apparently people currently in a civil union in Britain can't get married yet.  The British govt claims it's 'too complicated' under current legislation.  Our govt (NZ) legalised gay marriage last year, and there was no problem with civil union couples getting married if they wanted.  Two friends of mine got a civil union a year ago this Sunday, and when marriage was legalised got married in September.  If our stupid, backwards govt can do it, surely Britain can allow civil union couples to marry if they want to.  I saw something about Elton John and his partner wanting to and saying they can't.

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I think this is something to do with our crackpot Government trying to figure out what to do with civil unions and whether or not they have to upgrade to marriage - and perhaps more to the point, trying to figure out whether by saying that civil unions are valid for gay couples this means they have to offer the option of a civil union for straight couples as well. I know that I this was possible Coran and I would almost certainly go for it. In a way the fact that civil unions are only for gay couples places us in the same situation that allowing marriage only for straight couples does. We would prefer a civil union if possible, but even though Coran is technically (if not legally) a woman, we cannot do this as we are not gay. Coran as a transgendered male to female would I suppose be a lesbian, since she still fancies women, but I don't fancy women, I just fancy (and love) Coran !   :smile:

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