Dystopian Futures Comparative Reading Circle

[Kell]

Anyone who would like to get hold of a copy of these books and join in the circle - there are quite a few copies available at Green Metropolis
Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell (http://www.greenmetropolis.com/search.asp?book_title=nineteen+eighty-four&author_name=&author_first_name=&ISBN=&categories=&Format=All&scope=InStock&Results=1&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=search)
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (http://www.greenmetropolis.com/search.asp?book_title=brave+new+world&author_name=huxley&author_first_name=&ISBN=&categories=&Format=All&scope=InStock&Results=1&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=search)



Welcome to the second comparative reading circle!

Over the months of October, November and December we will be reading, discussing and comparing the following two titles (although the thread will remain open indefinitely, so that others who read the novels later can add their thoughts).

Please feel free to make posts at any point, even if you are only part way through one or the other of the books in question - it will be interesting to see how your perceptions change as you read.

NOTE: When making posts relating to plot points, please use the spoiler tags and state which chapter of which novel you are up to (so that others who haven't reached that point can avoid that section, and those who have reached or passed it know it's safe to take a look.

Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell:
Hidden away in the Record Department of the sprawling Ministry of Truth, Winston Smith skilfully rewrites the past to suit the needs of the Party. Yet he inwardly rebels against the totalitarian world he lives in, which demands absolute obedience and controls him through the all-seeing telescreens and the watchful eye of Big Brother, symbolic head of the Party. In his longing for truth and liberty, Smith begins a secret love affair with a fellow-worker Julia, but soon discovers the true price of freedom is betrayal.

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley:
Far in the future, the World Controllers have created the ideal society. Through clever use of genetic engineering, brainwashing and recreational sex and drugs all its members are happy consumers. Bernard Marx seems alone harbouring an ill-defined longing to break free. A visit to one of the few remaining Savage Reservations where the old, imperfect life still continues, may be the cure for his distress...

SOME POINTS TO PONDER:
(You do not have to answer all, or indeed, any, of these questions, they are meant only as points for you to perhaps mull over as you read, and provoke more discussion. Please feel free to ask and answer any questions that come up as you read.)

* How do the portrayals of government control and scientific advancement in the two novels hold up to one another? In your opinion, is one more strongly/weakly written, and in what ways?

* How do the styles of prose compare? Are there major similarities/differences in the way the stories are told?

* Did you enjoy one novel more than the other? Which was it and why? Was there a particular part of either one that really stood out for you? Were there any parts you struggled with and why?

* What do you think each novel says about society at the time they were written, and what do you think it says about the future of society based on present scenarios as you know them? Do you think there is an inevitability that society will head in a direction similar to those shown, and why/why not?

* Did you find either of the novels particularly graphic/disturbing in any way? How do those scenes compare to graphic scenes in other, similar novels that you have read?

Happy reading!

[kitty_kitty]

I got 1984 out from the library and i am really gripped, i do not know if i am enjoying his style of writing or the fact that i hav always wanted to read this book.

I think it will be interesting to see what people think of both of these books and depending on which order you have read them which book you prefer.

When i reading this book especially the parts which are in the Party controlled areas and in the main characters apartment i imagine them to be really grey, dull, dingy, dark. I can amost feel the depression and smell the horrible cabbagy dank smell

[Kell]

There was one little bit of total irony that leapt out of Brave new World for me, and that was one of the character names. Linda means "pretty", but the character, Linda, was anything but - in fact, she was described as quite a repulsive character, both physically and in her lack of social graces (or her ability to fit into society).

[kitty_kitty]

These might be interesting some links from Wikipedia about the two books

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

[Kell]

Those are very interesting articles - thanks for posting the links, Kitty. I would, however, suggest that folks who haven't read the books yet don't read the articles till they do, as there are major spoilers in them - the entire plot is covered.

~~***~~


One major thing I noticed from reading these two novels is the polar extremes they reach:

1984 - Complete sexual repression - sex purely for procreation
BNW - Sex with multiple partners is encouraged - sex purely for recreation

1984 - General standards of living are very low, with most of the day spent in toil
BNW - Very high standards of living with plenty of free time

1984 - People are generally kept in ignorance - information is withheld from the public
BNW - People are given at least basic education, with better education depending on caste - the public is inundated with information

However, both books use brainwashing techniques, but in different ways:

1984 - Fear and ignorance combined to force people into a certain mindset
BNW - Subliminal feeds from a very young age condition people to certain mindsets depending on caste

[fireball]

1984 - Fear and ignorance combined to force people into a certain mindset.
BNW - Subliminal feeds from a very young age condition people to certain mindsets depending on caste.

I remember reading those books in the late 60's early 70's for some godawful school thingie, and thinking they were the WORST form of horror I'd ever read, they really creeped me out as they say now days; so I wasn't to suprised when the 80's finally did arrive, followed by the 90's, that both decades more or less had at LEAST some 'qualities' of BOTH books, and just look at the now, since the 80's up to now,
E V E R Y T H I N G' s been dumbed down, news proper what news?, teachers complaining of school curriculum's been made too easy and doesn't even stretch the youngest of pupil/s, the Law is more of ass then it ever was. :roll:
You name it and it's been dumbed down one way are another, I read that even the august BBC's looking to "reworking" the news and try and stem the tide of **** news for some 'serious news'.!

All an all our school days at least give us thought and how therein to utilise particular purpose or for its inherent or natural purpose and proper speech and God knows what else, for the good.

Things look simple for our children/teens now days, trouble is it's TOO simple. Some say 'they've' gone too far others say not far enough, true...in some ways our schooling was a rough ride (in ways it was meant to be at least it MADE you use your head ie BRAINS) but they didnt make you look as if you'd a godgiven right to this, that and other...did it.?

Everything's simplified to that of about tottdler's IQ,! or dammit as close to it.

I know, I know I've heared all laziest excuses, as know doubt you have as well. This is one occasion where fact is mirroring fiction to an alarming rate. At least in those books was a "forewarned is forearmed"

Sorry this posting's a bit down, and maybe too long, at least it's truthful and goes to show, how fiction can be so eerily accurate even if they were written in the last century....which isn't THAT long ago...is it.?

[Kylie]

Hear hear Fireball! Everything has definitely been dumbed down for the masses these days. I hate to think where it will all lead.

I notice it a lot when I'm reading too. The language used in books these days is (mostly) very simple. I don't think there's as much 'intelligent' writing these days. I don't know if I explained that very well, and I'm not trying to put down modern writing, but it just seems that in the past they had a much better command of the English language than we do these days. <sigh> Does anyone have any idea of what I'm trying to say here? :roll:

I've read both of these books in the past couple of years, but will definitely re-read them before the end of the year, if I get a chance!

[fireball]

I don't know if I explained that very well, and I'm not trying to put down modern writing, but it just seems that in the past they had a much better command of the English language than we do these days. <sigh> Does anyone have any idea of what I'm trying to say here?

Absolutely. And IF somebody does write a "grown-up" book with proper English (Mercy sakes! and telling an actual story too!!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/steelclaw32/faint.gif) and thought provoking and you have to use your brains with it, "critics" or so-called 'betters', say it's for the birds, granted, not all, but enough, to put you off. Looking at the NewYork Times's top book list recently. Well MOST of them were :roll: and THAT was only the 'best' selling fiction bit.!

[angerball]

I read both of these years ago, though I do recall giving up on Brave New World. :blush: I found both these books while I was packing up my things to ship to the UK. I've set them aside to take in my suitcase, so I'll be able to start reading them in a week or so (once I finish The Stand). Really looking forward to these! What I do recall, is that they were both pretty much opposites of each other, which struck me as interesting. I guess it's just the mindset of the authors. Anyway, can't really comment until I read them, so I'd better shut up now! :lol:

[fireball]

Fair point and fair dues to you angerball, just remember though that THEY are somewhat depressing reads and as I said : so I wasn't to suprised when the 80's finally did arrive, followed by the 90's, that both decades more or less had at LEAST some 'qualities' of BOTH books you might see it to, so don't get your hopes up for some pleasent reading....because they're not.

I did say :At least in those books was a "forewarned is forearmed" And they weren't far wrong...really. Sadly. :(

[kitty_kitty]

One major thing I noticed from reading these two novels is the polar extremes they reach:

1984 - Complete sexual repression - sex purely for procreation
BNW - Sex with multiple partners is encouraged - sex purely for recreation

1984 - General standards of living are very low, with most of the day spent in toil
BNW - Very high standards of living with plenty of free time

1984 - People are generally kept in ignorance - information is withheld from the public
BNW - People are given at least basic education, with better education depending on caste - the public is inundated with information

However, both books use brainwashing techniques, but in different ways:

1984 - Fear and ignorance combined to force people into a certain mindset
BNW - Subliminal feeds from a very young age condition people to certain mindsets depending on caste

These things jumped out at me too.

I found BNW more disturbing as the people there were being controlled and seemed happy to be controlled as in there were no talks of underground movements etc

I found 1984 a lot more enjoyable to read and I found BNW more difficult to read and definitely you tell it was wrote earlier due to a lot of the language and how the characters talked

I found the destruction of books and literature in both books distressing.