Hogfather by Terry Pratchett [Archive]

Kell

28th November 2006, 07:21

I now declare this reading circle thread OPEN!

Hogfather by Terry Pratchett
It's the night before Hogswatch. And it's too quiet. There's snow, there're robins, there're trees covered with decorations, but there's a notable lack of the big fat man who delivers the toys...He's gone. Susan the governess has got to find him before morning, otherwise the sun won't rise. And unfortunately her only helpers are a raven with an eyeball fixation, the Death of Rats and an oh god of hangovers. Worse still, someone is coming down the chimney. This time he's carrying a sack instead of a scythe, but there's something regrettably familiar...Ho, Ho, Ho, - it's true what they say. 'You'd better watch out...'

dididave

5th December 2006, 16:37

Got it, read it a million times and could probably do this from memory anyhow! Anyone else love the irony of Death as "The Hogfather" with the bah humbug Albert in tow as the oldest elf in history? I love the darkness of this .

Acesare*

5th December 2006, 16:53

This is on Sunday 17th December, Sky 1. Can't remember the time, I'm afraid.

Kell

5th December 2006, 18:47

It's a two-parter on Sky 1:

Sunday 17th December & Monday 18th December @ 8pm.

Am now a little disappointed, because it was originally supposed to be on Xmas Day!

Liz

6th December 2006, 02:05

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed as well. It would have been great if they had shown it on the 25th. Although, if it's a two-parter, it must be fairly long. I'm really looking forward to this now.

Kell

6th December 2006, 07:09

They could have done it over Xmas Eve/Xmas Day - that would have been perfect! Waaahhh!

Still, I'm looking forward to it, despite the fact that i've heard they've changed quite a bit of the plot (why? why? why?????)

Sugar

6th December 2006, 18:04

They could have done it over Xmas Eve/Xmas Day - that would have been perfect! Waaahhh!
They are probably hoping that it will make more people get Sky+ then it can be saved for Xmas Eve/Day.....!

Gyre

6th December 2006, 19:18

I had actually forgotten how funny Terry Pratchett is, 'Hogfather' is brilliantly dark! :mrgreen:

Kell

6th December 2006, 20:47

dididave

6th December 2006, 20:53

I love how Pratchett's Discworld characters all have a basis in "Round World" history. In the case of the Hogfather, he's obviously done a lot of research into old Pagan beliefs & practices - the same basis from which we ended up with Santa Claus, just leaving it a step or two behind where we're currently at. Pratchett does this with many of his main characters - i think it's part of why his books appeal to so many people - there's a realism there that gets under our skin. ;)

Aye I think that is what a lot of people who do not read Pratchett fail to understand. Yes IT IS a world with witches and stuff but it very closely parodies our own and the witches and werewolves suffer the same problems we do. Susan having an embarassing Grandfather for example (Who just so happens to be DEATH.

Kell

6th December 2006, 20:59

Michelle

6th December 2006, 21:20

I have a strange sense of humour, so some of the things I love are the random discussions.. like the one about whether a banana is actually a fish. (I also love Eddie Izzard's random style.)

This book is actually growing on me.. there are some really clever ideas etc :)

Michelle

6th December 2006, 21:26

Sky's web site is pretty slow, but you may want to have a look here...
http://www.skyone.co.uk/hogfather/

Renniemist

7th December 2006, 09:39

The Hogfather is a very enjoyable and witty book. I have not read any Terry Pratchett books before so the whole Discworld and all the characters are new to me.

It is a great book to read at this time of the year. I loved the scene in the toyshop. I will try to watch The Hogfather when it is on TV over the Christmas period. I do think I may have enjoyed it more if I had read some of the previous books- just to get a feel for some of the characters. However the book is so full of humour that you can’t help but enjoy it. :D

Pilgrim

9th December 2006, 11:11

I also love Susan's no-nonesense approach to things. For example, her employer asks how one should address the third cousin of a Queen, she replies, "We call him Jamie" (if I remember correctly!). Also, how she handles the kids smacks of how my Grandad used to be - I was never told there were no such things as monsters & ghosts - mostly because there are such things! And The Poker was something my Gramps would threaten to use on any bogeyman who tried to scare his granddaughters! The first time I read that whole section, I almost creased myself laughing - especially the "Susan picked a Bogey by it's nose!" :lol:

She's like most people - someone trying to live a normal life under extraordinary circumstrances. i think we can all relate to that in some way.

I'm only about a 10th of the way through but Susan's a wonderful creation. In dealing with Twyla, one of her little charges, "What have I told you about trying to sound ingratiatingly cute..." as part of her no-nonsense approach.

Thanks for getting me away from mysteries for a while. Are there even any spoilers in this? It seems as if the narrative, and as you said earlier, the basis in Round World, is the message and it's fantastic.

Also phrases like "the members of the Guild of Assassins...knew the value of human life. To a penny, in many cases."

I've just passed the descriptions of the underworld thugs and how Teatime negotiates. I'll never pronounce tea time the same again...not that I use that expression very often.

Kell

9th December 2006, 15:44

I'll never pronounce tea time the same again...not that I use that expression very often. i used to work in an office full of Pratchett fans & come 10:30am & 3:00pm every day, someone would announce very loudly, "Stop working everyone - it's Te-ah-ti-meh!" & we'd all have a cuppa - LOL!

Pilgrim

10th December 2006, 20:58

Kel, what a wonderful office!
The name "Ankh-Morpork" sounds as if it has a history to it and I may be missing something obvious or already mentioned. The only thing I could come up with is an exclamation involving hogs.
I'd like to see the show and I noticed on the cast at IMDb that Terry Pratchett has a part.

And "Ho, Ho, Ho, Cower Brief Mortals" is a great way to deliver gifts. What a likeable character - so far.

Liz

11th December 2006, 01:52

I'd like to see the show and I noticed on the cast at IMDb that Terry Pratchett has a part.

Yes, he's playing the Toy Maker (although, he does only make a brief appearance).

Watched a "Making Of" programme on The Hogfather tonight. Looks as though this could be quite good. They've taken a long time making the sets, so hopefully it will look like it's from the Disc.

Lilywhite

14th December 2006, 10:52

I can't wait for this on Sunday, I have nearly finished the book too. Great story and I'm glad I read it now coming up to Christmas, it has so much more meaning when you're in the festive mood. :)

Gyre

15th December 2006, 23:26

I finished 'Hogfather' last night and having being away from Terry Pratchett for some time, I have to say I absolutely loved 'Hogfather', the story was brilliant and very apt of course for this time of year. Death and Albert are such a great comedy duo don't you think? Susan trying to find her place in the grand scale of things. It was a great read, a brilliant choice for the book of the month.

Pilgrim

16th December 2006, 11:55

Well, I just read a tad more last night because what an exhausting week but am now 50% of the way through the book and the month.

I like Death too. Good to know that Death and Albert are certainties til the end - like death and taxes.

And Lilywhite! You're the mom of two of Teatime's ragtag band! The brainless one that has taken to following Teatime around like a puppy and his brother who was exceedingly mean til Teatime showed up on the scene and now, by comparison, just a member of the team. Though I believe someone says if she were still around she'd be a match for Teatime.

I've set the book down where I can't find it for the moment but as soon as I clean some clutter, I'll be back and I'll block the sad fact that can't watch this on Sunday. I'll bet Pratchett was in the "Making of The Hogfather".

Lilywhite

16th December 2006, 19:49

I do like that.... good old ma Lilywhite :)

dogmatix

17th December 2006, 13:57

I'm enjoying my own read this month but I have to say after reading this thread I think I really missed out on The Hogfather. This book sounds hillarious. Funny I usually try to participate in the BOTM. I'll definitely be looking into this book at some point in the future.

Angel

17th December 2006, 16:24

I confess that I've never tried a Terry Pratchett book before, so I thought that I would give this a go. It sounds good - I was listening to Pratchett discussing it with Jonathon Ross on the radio yesterday - it sounded good, although fantasy doesn't usually rock my rock!

Michelle

17th December 2006, 17:32

I'm just watching the 'Making of..' and it's looking rather good! I can't wait. :)

Liz

18th December 2006, 00:01

Watched the first part this evening. Quite liked it, actually. Will definitely be watching the second part tomorrow.

Gyre

18th December 2006, 00:07

Me too, I really enjoyed watching Hogfather..
:mrgreen:

Kell

18th December 2006, 07:28

Having loved the book, I was a little disappointed by the 1st part of Hogfather on Sky 1 last night. I thought it rather slow-moving yet fragmented & not much seemed to be happening. Then, in the preview of tonight's episode, they gave far too much away & it looks like they've tried to cram too much into that part.

That said I did actually enjoy watching it & I thought David Jason was excellent (despite not originally liking the idea of him being cast in the role) & the gril playing Susan is wonderful.

Here's hoping the 2nd half isn't too garbled as they try to finish the story!

dididave

18th December 2006, 07:31

I liked it but it was a lot darker than I expected and a lot of the humour has been lost in translation. I reckon they have captured Suasan perfectly but Ridcully is nut how I would imagine him and DEATH is a poor representation to me. Albert is just too nice and Nobby Nobbs not inhuman enough.

They have got the mood and atmosphere of the story spot on and Mister Teh-A-Timeh is superbly sinister creation. Part two looks promising and yeah for the appearance of the DEATH OF RATS!

Liz

18th December 2006, 08:43

I haven't reached The Hogfather yet (I'm reading them in order), so I cannot say how close it is to the book. But from reading about Nobby and DEATH in previous books, I have to say that I wasn't thrilled with how they've turned out in the show.

Lilywhite

18th December 2006, 09:40

Like Kell I was slightly disappointed with the slow moving pace of the first part, and I agree that a lot of the humour was definately lost in translation. I was laughing but only because I just finished the book and know what they mean. Will be missing part 2 though as I have to work until 9 tonight :(

dididave

18th December 2006, 10:14

Will you not be able to watch it because it is on multi-start?

Liz

18th December 2006, 10:37

Or you could set your video player to record.

Michelle

18th December 2006, 11:32

I do think fans of the books will enjoy this more, because they understand alot of the background stuff, and the humour. It was nice to see it brought to life though.

Susan is great, and from the previews, the god of hangovers should be funny. I loved seeing the Death of Rats.

I, howver, found Tea Time really annoying. he said in the 'making of', that he'd been watching 'Charlie and the Choc Factory', and had modelled himself on Johnny Depp. Personally, I think he's simply tried to copy him, and it's annoying.

Looking forward to tonight's though. :)

Gyre

18th December 2006, 17:55

I have to say I was slightly disappointed with Corporal Nobbs as well.

Kell

18th December 2006, 22:20

I was completely disappointed by the TV production. The script jumped all over the place & there was no pace at all - they could have worked on the timing a little & cut an hour out of it, making room for all the stuff they left out! Also thought that 90% of the humour was missing - where were all the clever puns & witty satire? The casting was mostly good, the sets & costumes were stunning, but I thought it was severely lacklustre over-all. :(

If you've watched this but not read the book, please don't let it put you off - the book is far, far better, with a decent laugh on pretty much every other page & a belly-laugh every half-dozen or so, as well as some very astute observations on the human condition.

Shame - it had so much potential, but it was, to my mind, mostly frittered away...

Liz

18th December 2006, 22:56

I have to admit, I thought it was going to be funnier that it was.

It hasn't put me off reading it, though, as I know the book is going to be far better than the T.V. version.

But it was great to see Terry Pratchett at the end, even though he didn't have much to say or do.

dididave

19th December 2006, 07:27

I thought the second half was far better than the first but there was virtually no humour. It was all very serious and had a slightly preachy C.S Lewis feel to it. I think Susan was wonderful but the rest of the cast were ust a bit dull and I have never seen David Jason look so mediocre.

Michelle

19th December 2006, 07:41

I think that any fan of the books would have very high expectations, so it's not surprising that there were disappointments.

Alot of the humour was missing, but it's not the sort of humour that's easy to transfer to the screen. Plus, as I may have said before, I think you need a deeper knowledge of some of the characters to really understand them.. which comes from earlier books.

I've only read the Death trilogy and Hogfather.. I had no real preconceptions of the wizards, for example, and so enjoyed them. I also know nothing about the guards, so they didn't bother me either way.

On the whole, I still enjoyed seeing it 'brought to life'.

Pilgrim

19th December 2006, 10:48

Another great dialogue...

IT'S THE EXPRESSION ON THEIR LITTLE FACES I LIKE, said the Hogfather.
"You mean sort of fear and awe and not knowing whether to laugh or cry or wet their pants?"
YES. NOW THATS IS WHAT I CALL BELIEF.

Have I thanked you all for introducing me to this?

Well, thank you.

dididave

19th December 2006, 12:16

Once you read Pratchett, you never go back!

Liz

19th December 2006, 23:26

You're hooked for life, now. :lol:

Kell

20th December 2006, 06:59

Incidentally, if anyone missed the TV production & still wants to see it, it's repeated on Xmas Day & Boxing day at 1pm on Sky 1 - so they are showing it at Xmas after all!

Liz

20th December 2006, 09:24

Oh. I just thought they had messed up the programme times in the Radio Times.

Kell

20th December 2006, 12:58

I think it's being repeated again near the end of January too...

The book's still WAAAYYYY better though! ;)

Mia

20th December 2006, 13:24

*Waiting (im)patiently for a showing on terrestrial TV* :(

Liz

20th December 2006, 17:18

You could be waiting a long time, then. Very few SKY programmes are later shown on terrestrial. Channel 4 may get it later on in the year.

Or you could get the DVD when it comes out.

Sugar

26th December 2006, 22:33

I've readd half of Hogfather today - I need to finish it quickly as (a) my copy from the library has been requested by someone else and (b) I've been really lucky to be able to borrow a DVD recorded from Sky with the dramatisation on it from a colleague and she wants it back!

It's been years since I have read any "Adult" Pratchett (possibly 5+ years) and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I've decided that a New Years Resolution must be to read at least 3 more Discworld books in 2007!

Kell

27th December 2006, 10:24

I was just reading a little information on the TV adaptation, & apparently 2.6 million viewers tuned in for the 1st half, but only 1.5 million came back for the 2nd half, which is a shame, because of the two parts, I thought the 2nd was marginally better.

Indicentally, if anyone missed it & still wants to see, it's repeated on SkyTWO tonight & tomorrow night, & then again on 30th & 31st December on the same channel.
--------------------------

One of my favourite parts in the book involves some of my least-favourite characters - I've never been a huge fan of the Wizards, but the scene in the Unseen University, where the Wizards lie in wait for the Hogfather in the library is so funny. The whole concept of whether the Librarian would already have been visited because he's an ape (either because he visits primates 1st in accordance with Ponder Stibbons' theories of evolution, or because apes start with A & humans start with H & it's all done alphabetically) always has me in stitches.

Sugar

27th December 2006, 23:23

One of my favourite parts in the book involves some of my least-favourite characters - I've never been a huge fan of the Wizards, but the scene in the Unseen University, where the Wizards lie in wait for the Hogfather in the library is so funny. The whole concept of whether the Librarian would already have been visited because he's an ape (either because he visits primates 1st in accordance with Ponder Stibbons' theories of evolution, or because apes start with A & humans start with H & it's all done alphabetically) always has me in stitches.
I read that bit earlier this evening, and I laughed too!

My other favourite bit so far is the bit about criminalism near the start - moving things around, "from A to B or, of course, to the Bottom of the C".

Pilgrim

2nd January 2007, 11:47

Well, I'm still not finished (maybe 3/4) but do love this book and my daughter has started it and may finish first. I believe she's even given herself a screen name somewhere of "verucca gnome".

The dialogue has already come in handy at a New Year's party when someone started talking about being bald and I used the "you know what they say about bald men" repartee.

Mia

6th January 2007, 21:22

Well, I finished Hogfather just before Christmas and my opinion hasn't changed from the first time I read it - I just don't like it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Discworld books and I'm a major Pratchett fan, but this book is strange for me. I found it very funny (as usual), with some laugh-out-loud moments, but it just annoys me a lot. What's even more annoying for me is that I can't say why I dislike it. As I say, it's funny, there are loads of great characters, and it rattles along at a fair rate without any boring bits. So why I don't like it, I don't know...

I'd read it when I bought it, but had never re-read it until it was chosen here, so I decided to give it a second chance, but my opinion remains the same. It's one of my least favourite Discworld books and I won't be reading it again.

I'd still like to see the Sky version though, to see what sort of a job they've made of adapting it.

Pilgrim

21st January 2007, 05:34

Great book - thanks, again. So much to love...the creative French chef/manager, the face off between Susan and Teh-ah-tim-eh - both times, the snowman disguise, Hex's FTB (fluffy teddy bear), Twyla and Gawain's children wisdom "And anyway..." I'm sure I'm forgetting a million things. My daughter and I finished the last 40 or so pages together - a landmark - Harry Potter's first year was the last time she wanted to read anything with me -thanks for that too.

Janet

21st January 2007, 14:51

I feel such a failure, and I hate to admit this as it's the first 'reading circle' book I've bought, but I've had to give up on Hogfather. It's just not doing it for me at all.

I do like Susan very much, and I like Death and his funny portrayal of someone being Father Christmas without much of a clue what it's about, and I love the way he TALKS IN CAPITAL LETTERS, but I just couldn't get to grips with the other story at all, about Teatime and Ridcully etc.

It wasn't like I only read a bit of it either - I got to about half way through!

I really wanted to like it, and I'm disappointed not to have but when reading becomes a chore... well, life is too short!

I've got the DVD of it that a friend kindly taped for me, so I will see how the story pans out that way!

Kell

21st January 2007, 15:55

Despite being a HUGE fan of Terry, there are one or two of his Discworld books that I don't like at all (The Colour of Magic,The Light Fantastic, and Eric are the three that I really didn't enjoy at all) - in a series of this length (there are over 35 of them now), there will always be one or two that don't appeal to everyone. Some people can't get on board with Pratchett's style of writing at all. For example, I always thought Pratchett would really appeal to my Mam's sense of humour, but she can't read the books at all - she hates that there are no distinct chapters for a start, but she also really can't get on with his style. I really loved Hogfather, but it's not one of my absolute favourites in the series - more of a secondary one instead.

However, if you were new to Pratchett before the reading circle and this one didn't float your boat, please don't be completely put off, as I really do believe he has something for everyone. :)

Janet

21st January 2007, 16:45

However, if you were new to Pratchett before the reading circle and this one didn't float your boat, please don't be completely put off, as I really do believe he has something for everyone. :)

I am new to him - it's my first attempt, in fact. Two people on the Neighbours board who are huge fans have recommended that I try Wyrd (sp?) Sisters, so I'm looking out for it in the secondhand shops.

Michelle

21st January 2007, 17:00

Also, if you enjoyed Death, try 'Mort'.. that was my introduction to Pratchett, and I really enjoyed it.

Liz

22nd January 2007, 15:30

Despite being a HUGE fan of Terry, there are one or two of his Discworld books that I don't like at all - The Colour of Magic,The Light Fantastic, and Eric are the three that I really didn't enjoy at all

See, now, I really enjoyed reading those three. I haven't read all the Discworld books yet, but the one I didn't like was Pyramids. I couldn't seem to get into that one at all.

It just goes to show that some of the Discworld books are better for certain people than they are for others.

Icecream

14th February 2007, 15:17

OK, so finally here are my thoughts, or at least some of them. I was completely inefficient by taking the book back yesterday before I wrote something down that I'd spotted. Might take a sneak peak when i go at the end of the week. I have never read any Pratchett before and therefore Discworld also) so I am completely new to the author and the world, though i have read plenty of fantasy before now.

I too liked the dark element of the book. I think it was one of the first things I noticed. It is strange because it is almost comical, given in the context of the nature of the book, yet also has an element of realism that is too prominent to ignore.

I liked Death too, a very likeable character. Is it ironic that one should like the character of death? It certainly seems so:lol: .

I agree with Kell's comment about Santa, and just leaving a step or two behind where we are now. It makes the realism of Pratchett's writing prominent, while not being too much, therefore still keeoing that fantastical element, as you said Kell, a realism that gets under our skin..

As the world so closely parodies our own in this way and in many others, Pratchett it seems, is showing us more than we actually read in his book. The wizards themselves, I feel pose an interesting reality. As diddave said above, although the creatures in the book are not always human, they show closeness with humanity, and this, for me, came through with the way the wizards conducted themselves, from the use of normal things such as bathrooms, to the way they interacted with each other (including with Hex). This made me wonder how far we can actually push the boudaries of our own reality. How far are the real and unreal actually the same thing?

I also enjoyed Susan's no nonsense approach. Also, I think her character helped in a big way to push the book in the direction of reality, especially as she was reluctant to leave reality (whatever that reallly is;) ).

As for the pronunciation of teatime, I always read it as it was written and refused to indulge in his own pronunciation, whether it is right or wrong). I just couldn't be bothered with it.