Pied Piper by Nevil Shute

[vodkafan]

Hi All Welcome to the March Reading Circle!

 

It is assumed that you have read the book before reading posts in this thread, as the discussion might give away crucial points, and the continuous use of spoiler tags might hinder fluent reading of posts.

 

 

I know that lots of you have already read the book. Anybody who hasn't who wants to join in please feel free to read it and join the discussion when you are ready.

 

synopsis from Amazon:

Pied Piper by Neville Shute

 

John Howard is determined to brighten up his old age by taking a fishing trip to France. However, during his stay the Nazis invade and he is forced to try to escape back to England with the two small children of some friends who are forced to stay behind in order to help the Allied war effort. As the conflict grows closer the roads become impassable and Howard also comes across five more children who need his help. He ends up leading this motley group of youngsters through the French countryside, constantly beset by danger yet heroically protecting his charges.

 

Here are some basic questions to consider:

 

1- Who was your favourite character?

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up? .

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

[Janet]

1- Who was your favourite character?

John Howard – without a shadow of a doubt! What a wonderful man.

 

He had such remarkable patience with all those children. Not rushing them but happy to walk at their pace, despite the necessity to get out of the country as quickly as possible. I warmed to him from the word go!

 

An honourable mention goes to Rose too – whilst I’m certain Mr Howard would have managed without her, there is no doubt she took the load off him despite her young age.

 

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

Gosh – I loved the whole thing so that’s a tricky question to answer! I think the ending was exciting. Despite the fact one knew that Howard had ‘lived to tell the tale’, with the book being told after the event, Shute still managed to keep up the ‘will they, won’t they’ tension of the story – remarkable – but I simply loved it from start to finish!

 

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

Yes, it’s the first book of Shute’s I’ve read. I’ve been meaning to read this for donkey’s years as it was on my parents’ bookshelf and I was really attracted to the cover…

 

 

…in fact, my Mum’s writing inside the front cover (for I borrowed it from her) tells me she bought it in February 1977! I love the current, slightly art deco cover so I might treat myself to that as I’m positive I’ll read it again.

 

Yes, it’s definitely encouraged me to read more but I need to research as I don’t really know what else he’s written (apart from the fact I know A Town Like Alice, which was made into a film, is one of his but I’ve never seen).

 

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

No, not that I can think of.

 

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

Do you know, I had totally forgotten that the theme was masculinity!

 

Erm, well I suppose the parts in the Gentleman’s Club in London certainly did, as they were the domain of men only.

 

Thinking about it, the book did fit the theme, albeit that maybe it turned on one’s head the way we think about masculinity in the time it was set. Certainly at this particular point in history (most) fathers were not as “hands on” as they are today, this journey and John Howard’s determination to save the children in his care was, to me, a truly remarkable characteristic of him - the urge to protect, whilst not being unique to men when it comes to children, is certainly a masculine characteristic.

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up? .

I know throughout the book he was referred to as elderly and that he had health problems, but it amused me that he was referred to this way – the narrator tells us he was ‘about seventy’. I do think that people, as well as living longer, are definitely ‘younger’ in outlook and I don’t consider 70 to be elderly.

 

I was having this conversation with my Mum who is seventy-five but is fitter than me and has the most active social life of anyone I know! When my Gran was the same age she was a ‘little old woman’ but I definitely don’t think of people in their 70s in that way today – there is no doubt that people are different today from how they were in the 1940s.

 

He didn’t refuse to help – and he didn’t give up - because he knew how desperate the situation was for that children and the instinct to protect kicked in. I think also the fact that he had lost his own son to this war meant that he wanted to prevent the childrens’ parents from going through the same anguish as he had. Also, I think it would take a very hard-hearted person to turn his back on those he found along the way (imagine leaving the orphan boy, Pierre, with the bodies of his dead parents and carrying on without them?!) and John Howard’s personality wouldn’t have allowed that.

 

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Oh yes - a definite 5/5! I intend to re-read it at some point and I can’t recommend it highly enough!

[lauraloves]

I have this book on my kindle as my next book to read on there. I'll be back as soon as I've read it

[chesilbeach]

1. Who was your favourite character?

John Howard is just a fantastically written character. He really does feel like a real person, not just some words on a page and I absolutely loved him.

 

2. Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

Not really, I loved it all! I read it in a couple of sittings, and considering the content at times, I found the writing was easy to read, and I just swallowed up chapters at a time.

 

3. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

I've read some war books, but I'm not a big reader of that genre, although I've never read any books by Nevil Shute before. There will always be war books that crop up on my reading list, but I don't search them out, it's only via a recommendation or if I want to read a particular author, and I don't think this book would change that habit. However, I did enjoy Shute's writing and I have been looking at the rest of his books and will probably read some more.

 

4. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

With regards to the content, I didn't struggle as such, but I did find the scene where there is an air attack on the road when they are travelling on the bus very hard, particularly when they add the small boy to their journey. The description of him and his state of shock was very moving, and I still well up thinking about it now. And again, when they arrive in the town where the villagers are throwing stones at a small boy because the believe him to be a spy. I found that incredibly difficult to read.

 

From the point of view of the structure of the book, the only thing that threw me was at the beginning of chapter six when it suddenly reverts back to the London club where the narrator is hearing the story from John himself. I'd been so engrossed in the story that when this chapter started in the first person narrative, I was initially confused before I remembered that this how the book had begun and it was actually being told during an air raid. It just took me a few paragraphs to realise!

 

5. How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

I have to admit, I find it hard to answer this question. When I think about whether this book had a masculine theme, I'm not sure that it does. I think what it has is a human theme. It's about what it's like to be a human in desperate situations, and how the main characters humanity drove him to bring these children back. Although there would have been differences in the difficulties encountered in the story, it could have been written about a woman. Now, I've just written that, and I know wonder whether I'm convinced by that myself. Actually, in that era, I think a woman may have dealt with the grief of losing a son differently and, more importantly, would have been able to contribute to the war effort in some way, probably as a volunteer of some sort, where a man couldn't, due to the differences in society at the time, so maybe, I think this book is about the theme of masculinity, and how a man learned to cope with bereavement.

 

6. The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help, or give up?

Howard struggled as I felt many older men struggled during WW2. He wanted to have a useful occupation and serve his country, but his age and health went against him. Although he'd travelled to France to cope with the grief of losing his son, once he'd agreed to take the children, he suddenly found he was actually doing something useful and although he was at times frail and suffered with his own health, he would have felt that sense of duty and honour of helping, and feeling that no matter how small his contribution, he was supporting the war effort. On top of that, I think because of the loss of his son, he was a man who didn't want to see any life wasted, and that's why he couldn't turn away from the children he picked up along the way, and he wanted to cherish their lives, and hope that the death of his son wasn't in vain.

 

7. Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Absolutely! I thoroughly enjoyed reading the book, and it's definitely one I would never have looked at had it not been for this reading circle.

[chesilbeach]

I have another thing I wanted to mention about the writing. I was so pleased to read a book about WW2 that was actually written during the war (published in 1942), and it made me think about the language, and the style of the dialogue used. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is, but I think there's a certain tone and flavour to how people talked in each era, and I've sometimes found that books written today as historical novels about WW2 don't quite have the same spirit to them that books written in and around that period seem to have. When written well, you can almost sense the stiff upper lip, the slightly forced cheerfulness in the face of adversity, and you can sense how the distinctions in class are starting to blur and there is a presence of comradery between the classes.

 

If I compare this book to another I read recently, The Welsh Girl by Peter Ho Davies which is a contemporary book written about a Welsh community during the same period, I definitely think that Shute's ambience seems more authentic, but I guess I should expect it to as it was written during the period. I really enjoyed The Welsh Girl, but as I compare them now, I can see the influence of modern attitudes on how the author writes about the experiences of the characters. I think both styles have merits, but I do find it interesting to consider the differences.

[bree]

1- Who was your favourite character?

John Howard.

 

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

I think the book picked up pace when Howard met Nicole. Till then it was a bit dreary, and not unlike the journey he was undertaking - as he put it at one point : "without adult conversation". I did like the interactions between them.

 

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

Yes, it was the first one - and I'd be open to similar books. I'm not sure I'd have picked this book randomly, so I'm happy it was chosen by the reading circle.

 

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

Not really. I just wish I could have read it in fewer sittings though. Because of my erratic reading the story felt a bit long-winded - and is begging for a quicker re-read.

 

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

I'm not sure how I define masculinity. To me it's just being male. I try and fight and reject prejudices of what is "feminine" or "masculine". So apart from the fact that the protagonist was male, masculinity has no other relevance in my understanding of the book. He was just a beautiful person. And being male was incidental.

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up? .

He was good person. Someone sincere and true to his conscience. Who knew what was right and was courageous and noble enough to look past limitations and do what he felt needed to be done.

He was of gentle, yet strong spirit and his life's experiences - the war, losing his son - has only made him more compassionate, wise and patient. So despite the fact that he wasn't physically strong enough, or the path home wasn't straightforward - he was essentially a person who'd do what he thought was right, or fall trying.

 

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Enjoyable is not a word I'd use. But did I like the book? Yes, very much. And it is a book that I will re-read down the years.

Inspiring. That's how I'd describe it. Such a beautiful story of a beautiful man. Told gently, with little gems of wisdom scattered amidst a tale of heroism. I'd rate it a 4.5 on 5.

[vodkafan]

All good reviews so far I notice. And everybody has said they will read the book again! Chesilbeach you bring up a very good point about the book being of it's time. I read a "modern" war book set in WW2 recently- The Odin Mission - and although I enjoyed it it didn't have this same feel, so I agree with you totally. One book that did have an authentic period feel for me was The Night Watch by Sarah Waters.

[bree]

…in fact, my Mum’s writing inside the front cover (for I borrowed it from her) tells me she bought it in February 1977! I love the current, slightly art deco cover so I might treat myself to that as I’m positive I’ll read it again.

 

Janet, that's so lovely! And I know what you mean about the cover.

I picked up my copy from a second-hand book-store - the cover is almost the same as yours, and it has a little note from 1974!

 

[Ooshie]

1- Who was your favourite character?

 

My favourite character was John Howard too, he was so dutiful and understated. I also liked Rose, who took a lot of the burden off him despite being so young.

 

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

 

I liked the part at the very end, where it was obvious that Mr Howard hadn't talked about what he had been through but allowed people to go on thinking he had just been on holiday. I think it was very in keeping for the time, and I can't think of many people who would carry on with life in such a stoic manner nowadays.

 

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

I have read On the Beach by Neville Shute, and intend re-reading it one day as I enjoyed it very much. I have read quite a few books set during the war.

 

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

I don't tend to enjoy books set during the war much, so it didn't actually appeal to me much.

 

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

 

I think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity very well; Mr Howard's behaviour fits the model of masculinity both my father and my husband demonstrate, putting others first, doing their duty and their best at all times, and not complaining. Unsurprisingly, it's a model that I admire!

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up?

 

As mentioned above, I think he had a very well-developed sense of duty and putting others first, and he would have seen it as his duty to help the children if he could.

 

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

No, I didn't enjoy it much. I do think it was well-written, and I certainly didn't hate it, but I probably won't read it again.

[bree]

I liked the part at the very end, where it was obvious that Mr Howard hadn't talked about what he had been through but allowed people to go on thinking he had just been on holiday. I think it was very in keeping for the time, and I can't think of many people who would carry on with life in such a stoic manner nowadays.

Very well put. And you're right. It didn't occur to me till I read your comment.

[chesilbeach]

All good reviews so far I notice. And everybody has said they will read the book again! Chesilbeach you bring up a very good point about the book being of it's time. I read a "modern" war book set in WW2 recently- The Odin Mission - and although I enjoyed it it didn't have this same feel, so I agree with you totally. One book that did have an authentic period feel for me was The Night Watch by Sarah Waters.

 

Yes, I read The Night Watch a few years ago, and I agree, that's one of the few exceptions as it really seemed to evoke the same sense and atmosphere as Pied Piper yet was written only recently.

[vodkafan]

Thanks to everybody who has commented so far. Thought it was about time I added my own review to the mix . But before I answer the questions I wanted to take a light-hearted look at why the events in the book could never happen today. That is because our Politically Correct council Nazis would have John Howard stood up against the wall and shot long before the Germans. Imagine the scenario:

John Howard is brought into a council interview room supported by two staff. He is weak and unsteady on his feet.

He has not been tortured, he has just been sitting out in the foyer for 6 hours without a drink waiting for an appointment after taking one of the little tickets.

Before him is a stern woman in a suit. She shuffles papers and tuts repeatedly before looking at him accusingly.

“So, Mr Howard. I have been reviewing your case. Dear me. I understand that you took it upon yourself to save 7 children from the German onslaught. Is this correct?”

Howard tries hard to focus. He manages to croak an affirmation.

“ Oh dear. Are you aware that the Health and Safety rules stipulate quite clearly that the ratio of adults to children under 10 is 1:2. TWO children maximum Mr Howard. And I understand that you were not related to any of these children? You don’t seem to be a registered childminder and I have no record of you even filling out a CRB check. “ She lowered her eyes and peered at Howard fiercely over her spectacles. “This is a REQUIREMENT.”

Howard’s mouth is dry. He is rather confused. “ The German airplanes…. They were bombing the road….”

The woman continued as if she had not heard.

“ And here by your own admission you state that one of the children was of indeterminate race, and another was Jewish. This is a serious breach of the rules Mr Howard. You simply do not have the proper Qualifications to understand the religious needs of ethnic minorities. You may have done untold harm to that child’s development, I hope you realise!”

Howard’s mind is reeling. But before he can reply the woman is standing leaning across the desk, her face a mask of righteous fury, her voice raised in anger .

“ And to cap it all you admit that you were involved in bathing the children and buying them socks and undergarments! Do you know how many red flags that raises ? You can’t fool us Mr Howard just what sort of a game are you playing? We are stopping your benefits!!”

 

1. Who was your favourite character?
   

John Howard was of course central to the story, but my favourite character was Nicole, who was very brave , and although had gone to pieces found a way to deal with her loss and carry on.

2-

Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

I enjoyed the interactions between Howard and Nicole the best, which were very poignant. Of course the reader realises that she loved Howard’s son long before he does.

3-

Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

Yes, the first by this author .I will read more by him. I do like to read WWII books, but usually read actual true life accounts or history books.

4-

Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

No struggle at all but there is a mistake in the introduction to the book which annoyed me. Here it stated that the events of the book happened in 1942 but of course France was invaded in May 1940. (The book was written in 1942) The writer of the intro should have known this. Howard would not have been able to travel over to France on holiday in 1942.

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

I think it did fit but you have to be looking at it to see it in that context. Others have already made very pertinent comments. For me another example of masculinity in the book is of the captured British agent . He knows the game is up and he is resigned to his fate. The interaction between him and Howard , and the later dialogue between the old man and the Gestapo man , are both very masculine scenarios. Howard is important again, not irrelevant. He has a part to play that is important to both other men..

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up? .

Others have already answered this better than I can, and I agree with all the reasons about him wanting to safeguard the children after losing his own son. Also he was the one on the spot, he felt it was his duty and it gave him a job to do.

7-

Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Yes the book was a very easy read and the characters were well drawn.

Edited March 10, 2012 by vodkafan

[lauraloves]

I thought I had commented on this, but I hadnt, so here are my answers,

 

1- Who was your favourite character?

John Howard. I just loved how he put all of the children and their needs above himself.

 

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

I loved all of the book, but I did like the part where John says that Nicole is like a daughter to him. Its very moving as she would have beenhis daughter in law if the awful untimely death of his son.

 

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

This is not my first book in the genre that I have read, indeed wartime fiction is one of my favourites. However it is my first book by this author and I really want to read more by him, I've already added a couple to my wishlist.

 

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

I didnt like the part where the locals were throwing stones at one of the children that felt so wrong when I read that. Also, if an older man was travelling with a group of young children who he hardly knows, I feel that maybe people might not be so forgiving.

 

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

The only thing I can think of is that he has an attitude of just getting on with things. I know that this is not really a masuline trait, but I am finding this question a bit difficult to answer

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up? .

I would have said because that is really what people did during that time, just get on with things. It was a bit of a stiff upper lip ad british attitude.

 

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Yes, l loved reading this book

[poppyshake]

1- Who was your favourite character?

John Howard .. who couldn't love him? I loved his patience and his understanding of each of the children and their individual needs. He was so trusty and reliable that you could see why Mr and Mrs Cavanagh entrusted their precious children to his care even though they didn't know him all that well. You knew instinctively that he would do his utmost to get them to safety. You could see too why the other children felt safe with him, in such an uncertain situation he was a very calming and reassuring influence.

 

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

I was glad when he met up with Nicole and she shared responsibility for the children from thereon in. Not that John wasn't doing a brilliant job but I was worrying too much for him up to that point. As soon as she answered the door I guessed from her reaction what her relationship to John (junior) was and it was amusing to see how naive John (senior) was on the subject. I loved the fact that by the end of their time together he loved her as a daughter .. though he started off thinking that she was not much more than a fashion plate with a soppy hairdo.

 

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

It's the first book I've read by Nevil Shute but it won't be the last. I loved the writing and fell easily into the story, he is so readable.

 

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

Not really, I liked it all but I did think the German officers were just a tiny bit clichéd .. like German officers in a b&w movie .. I felt they might launch into 've haf vays of making you talk' etc etc at any minute. Also the ending did seem just a little too convenient .. though I was very happy for it. I can see that it's possible that a Gestapo officer may have had family he wanted smuggling out but I don't think he would have let quite so many people in on the scheme, I think that would've been unwise and he would know it. However, I expect stranger and more unlikely things than that actually happened and anyway this is fiction and you're allowed to take liberties for the sake of a good story.

 

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

Very well. One of the things John had to do was take control especially because he had so many dependants. He found himself in some very frightening situations and quite a lot of the time was panicking inwardly but he never relayed that to the children. Even in panic he remained level headed and was clear about what his next move should be. My Dad always used to say to me in times of stress 'stand on me' .. in other words 'I will carry the burden for you' and John was like that. He would have literally laid down his life for those children .. he tried bargaining as much with Major Diessen. For a time he had to be both mother and father to these children and even though he had had children of his own he had never encountered half the things he now found himself faced with .. I thought he was at his most heroic then.

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help, or give up?

I think part of him definitely wanted to but he came from an age when doing your duty was everything, he had made a promise and there was no way in the world that he was going to renege on it. He wasn't sure that he was up to it but still he was determined to see it through. He thought about leaving Pierre with nuns at a convent etc but when it came to it he didn't even look for one. It would have troubled him to leave any of them behind.

 

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Yes very, it was a joy.

[dawnbirduk]

1- Who was your favourite character?

 

I think I must also go for John Howard, just an all round lovely man.

 

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

 

The growth of the relationship between John and Nicole, and Ronnie getting into mischief by disappearing to look at the German Tank

 

 

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

Yes, it was, my late Grandad was a Nevil Shute fan, I wouldn't mind reading more, human war time stories.

 

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

The people throwing stones at a child, that was so awful.

 

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

 

I do not really know

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up? .

 

Because he was a caring person, and you do not refuse those in need, if you care. However, at the beginning of the book, there was evidence of him trying to take part in the war effort and he was classed as too old, I suppose he was thinking by helping these children he was doing his part.

 

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[vodkafan]

I have thought of another question to ask. This one is just a bit of fun really.

 

Although the story has a happy ending it finishes in 1940 and there is still 5 years of war left. I liked to think that John Howard survived the war and stayed in good health long enough to reunite with Nicole after the war and develop a relationship with her as her father in law. How would you like to see the characters end up in your version ?

[Devi]

1- Who was your favourite character?

 

That would have to be John Howard and Nichole.

 

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

 

Hmm, I loved it all really, especially from the middle onwards when things started to pick up. You really felt like they were being cornered.

 

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/ by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

It's the first I have read of Nevil Shute, I am keen to see what other books he has written. I loved this story so much, that I plan on buying my own copy of pied piper.

 

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

Well the bit I kind of struggled to understand, was the bit at the start. How could a mother just send her kids off with someone she barely knew really, just so she could be with her husband, if it were me I would of gone with them. Though I understand, it would of been a different kind of thinking process in that era and generation.

 

5- How well do you think the book fitted the theme of Masculinity?

 

Well boys will be boys, the men all played a typical male role.

 

6- The main character is elderly and the events stretched him to his limits. Why did he not refuse to help , or give up?

 

I think his grief must of him feel that if he couldn't of saved his own son from the war, then he would try to save these kids.

 

7- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

I loved every bit of this book, and was really excited at the thought of reading it everynight, a book hasn't done that to me in a long time. I can't wait to re-read it!

Edited March 18, 2012 by Devi