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Mistress Masham's Repose by T H White


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Welcome to the February 2012 Reading Circle for Mistress Masham's Repose by T H White

 

It is assumed that you have read the book before reading posts in this thread, as the discussion might give away crucial points, and the continuous use of spoiler tags might hinder fluent reading of posts.

 

 

Mistress Masham's Repose by T H White

Synopsis (from back cover)

Ten-year-old orphan Maria lives in a vast, crumbling mansion, with warm-hearted Cook and the eccentric Professor as her only friends. Exploring the neglected lake one day, Maria discovers a mysterious island - and an extraordinary secret. The island is home to a community of Lilliputians - the tiny people whom Gulliver met on his famous travels.

 

But Maria's wicked governess and the cruel vicar are plotting to steal her inheritance - and once they learn her secret, Maria knows she is in grave danger. Can she keep the Lilliputians safe, while protecting herself?

 

 

Questions for discussion (please answer as many or as few as you wish)

 

1.
Who was your favourite character...?

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

 

3.
Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

 

4.
Was this the first book you've read in this genre / by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

5.
Have you read Gulliver's Travels?

.......
a.
If yes, did it make this a more enjoyable experience?

.......
b.
If no, has this book inspired you to have a go at Swift's masterpiece?

 

6.
Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

7.
Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

8.
Would you recommend the book and if so to whom?

 

9.
The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

10.
Maria treats the Lilliputians quite badly when she gets over her initial shock at finding them. Why does she behave this way towards them?

 

11. T H White was an atheist - do you think this comes across in his writing at all?

 

Some more questions for consideration
again, please feel free to answer as many or as few as you wish.

(Some found from the internet and re-worded to suit) - Added 7 February 2012

 

12. Did any of the dialogue stick out for you as being either very good… or very bad!

 

13. Were you engaged immediately with the story, or did it take you a while to get into it?

 

14. Did you find the ending of the book satisfactory? If not, what would you have changed about it?

 

15. If you enjoyed the book, would you have liked a sequel? How do you think the story could develop in the sequel?

 

16. What did you think about the setting of the book? Does it come to life? Did you feel you were experiencing the time and place in which the book was set?

 

17. From the answers to questions 1 to 11 so far (6 Feb) it seems that the book hasn’t stood the test of time as it feels rather dated. Despite this, do you think the same basic story could be written today in a way which was convincing and enjoyable to today’s young people?

 

18. If you were able to talk to T H White, is there anything you would you ask him about the book?

 

19. If your book has an introduction did you read it?

a) If yes, did you read it before or after you’d read the actual story?

b) If you read it before the story, did it enhance your enjoyment in any way?

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1. Who was your favourite character...?

I don’t know that any of the characters had enough depth for them to be ‘favourites’ of mine. The Professor and Cook get plus points for being so kind to Maria (Cook gets double points for her kindness to the Professor too, visiting him to leave him a surreptitious parcel of ‘Bloaters’ which he knows she’s leaving, and she knows he knows she’s leaving, but etiquette means they both pretend otherwise).

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

I didn’t really have a ‘least favourite’ either. I guess we were supposed to dislike the governess and the vicar but I liked their villainous natures – and calling the vicar Mr Hater was just inspired!!

 

3. Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

My favourite part was towards the end of the book, particularly the part where they were trying to rescue Maria from the dungeons and it kept going wrong for them! I thought the ending was predictable but nonetheless I enjoyed it and I was glad Maria’s fortunes were restored to her! I was amused when Mr Hater and Miss Brown were tracking Maria, but she knew of this and led them a merry dance! I particularly liked the part where they got locked in the tower overnight!

 

4. Was this the first book you've read in this genre / by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

I’m quite a fan of children’s books so I have read lots as an adult and will continue to do so. This is the only book I’ve read by T H White. He’s best known for his Arthurian book, The Sword in the Stone, which was made into the excellent Disney film, and for the other books that make up the set The Once and Future King, but I don’t fancy those (sorry Noll, if you’re reading this!). I would like to investigate him further though – I don’t know if he’s written any books for adults but he does have quite a large catalogue!

 

5. Have you read Gulliver's Travels?

....... a. If yes, did it make this a more enjoyable experience?

....... b. If no, has this book inspired you to have a go at Swift's masterpiece?

I have read Gulliver’s Travels – I read it in order to read this and I suppose it probably helped knowing a little of the back-story of the Lilliputians, but then again, I think Mistress Masham’s Repose explained what had happened to them in Gulliver’s time quite well.

 

Had I read this first, I’m not entirely convinced I’d have gone on to read Gulliver’s Travels though!

 

6. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

The policeman’s behaviour wasn’t terribly convincing! Then again, I am reading through adult eyes. Had I read this as a child I would probably have found him quite humourous, but I his behaviour mildly irritating! (I find that a few weeks later I can’t actually remember why/what happened, but I do remember being irritated as I was reading!).

 

7. Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Yes, but there were sections of the book I found rather dull and some bits that were frankly silly, but then I’m not the book’s target audience so I guess that’s why!

 

8. Would you recommend the book and if so to whom?

I’m not sure I would recommend the book to anyone – I can’t think of anyone I know personally who I would say should read it. I usually pass books onto my mother as we have similar reading tastes, but I’m not even sure I’d give it to her. This doesn’t mean I disliked it – I just don’t think it was wonderful either!

 

9. The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

I know it was set just after WW2 but it felt quite dated to me and I don’t think it’s stood the test of time such as books like the Narnia Chronicles (although it doesn’t feel as dated as the Famous Five books did having re-read them a few years ago). I think the author made it feel like a blend of post-war years and of the 18th century when Gulliver’s Travels was written and set – which was quite clever!

 

10. Maria treats the Lilliputians quite badly when she gets over her initial shock at finding them. Why does she behave this way towards them?

Maria has been starved of affection since losing her parents. Although Cook and the Professor do their best, they are not a substitute for friends of Maria’s own age. I think she sees the Lilliputians as toys… dolls to be loved and played with… and not as adult people. Her initial meeting with them was lovely but I thought she’d blown it with them and that they would become enemies in the book and her realisation of her bad behaviour and her change towards them was well-written.

 

11. T H White was an atheist - do you think this comes across in his writing at all?

No. I didn’t know anything about him and didn’t research him until after I’d finished the book. The vicar, despite being avaricious and cruel was well-written, and his behaviour towards Maria didn’t sit well with him. At one point during the book he was adamant that his and Miss Brown’s behaviour towards Maria was not Christian. I think it would have been easy for T H White to allow his non-belief to have written the vicar with no redeeming features at all, but thankfully he chose not to go down this route, which would have (for me) made the character of the vicar less convincing. Mr Hater wasn’t a nice man but he must have been so at one stage and I hope this adventure taught him a lesson!

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1. Who was your favourite character...?

 

I liked Maria the best. I thought she was very realistically written. I imagined my own 10 year old daughter in Maria's place and she fitted perfectly.

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

 

I disliked the Professor. He was too silly for words. Then we got to the Lord Lieutenant and he was even sillier

 

3. Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

 

I enjoyed the early chapters when she was exploring on her own, and her discovery of the Lilliputians. Also her strop at knowing she was wrong after the pilot got hurt in her flying experiments and taking a while to admit it.

 

I also loved the ruined old house which (Impossibly) was a mile across and had rooms which had witnessed every event in English History. That is a fairy tale house to top them all. Wonderful.

 

4. Was this the first book you've read in this genre / by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

Yes the first. I would not go out of my way to read another.

 

5. Have you read Gulliver's Travels?

....... a. If yes, did it make this a more enjoyable experience?

 

I read GT a long while ago and had mostly forgotten it. I don't think it matters at all if you haven't read it because the relevant events are explained

 

6. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

All the parts with the Professor in were deadly dull and I started to be bored.

 

7. Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

When I finished the book I would have said it was only OK. But now looking back I enjoyed parts of it more than I realised.

 

8. Would you recommend the book and if so to whom?

 

Well if my 10 year old picked it up I would not discourage her, I don't think it would appeal to anyone older than that, modern teenagers have moved on. (see next answer)

 

9. The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

 

I think this is my main grumble. It has not stood the test of time in my opinion. Now the Latin references and all the History references in the house would just go over a modern child's head. That's hardly the fault of the author though.

 

If a child makes the effort to read though there are some good moral lessons in the book, and although I found all the adults too silly, I know this does appeal to a 10 year old.

 

10. Maria treats the Lilliputians quite badly when she gets over her initial shock at finding them. Why does she behave this way towards them?

 

Because she is young she sees them as toys, as Janet said, and is just not mature enough at the beginning to know that you should not do something just because you can

 

11. T H White was an atheist - do you think this comes across in his writing at all?

 

This didn't occur to me when I was reading so I don't think it was much of a factor in his writing, but I can only judge by this book.

 

Good questions Janet thanks!!

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1.
Who was your favourite character...?

I liked Maria and I also liked the Professor and the Cook. Yes they were daft as brushes but I liked that about them. I could hardly understand one word in ten that Cook said and the Professor was slightly insane but they made me laugh and their fondness for Maria made me fond of them. I love stories about absent minded dotty people that do ridiculous things. And I was even more amused (sorry to say VF
:D
) when the Lord Lieutenant came into the story with all his horse based paraphernalia (I spent ages laughing at that scene .. there's no hope for me really .. the bit about the key under the geranium pot amused me as well.) In fact it was all the silliness I liked, if he had taken that out I wouldn't have liked the story half so well.

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

Miss Brown probably & Mr Hater but they were great boo-hiss villains.

 

3.
Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

I really enjoyed the escape part especially the bit where the Schoolmaster had to try and
engage the attention of Cook to help release Maria from the dungeons. I thought the story built and built from the time Maria got captured and it ceased having (for me) boring intervals then.

 

4.
Was this the first book you've read in this genre / by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

I have read, a long, long time ago,
The Once and Future King
and I remember enjoying it after I had got over the initial disappointment that it was quite unlike Disney's
The Sword in the Stone.
I wouldn't necessarily seek them out but I would read more stories by him if they came my way.

 

5.
Have you read Gulliver's Travels?

 

.....
a.
If yes, did it make this a more enjoyable experience?

......
b.
If no, has this book inspired you to have a go at Swift's masterpiece?

I haven't read Gulliver's Travels and reading this made me realise that it's probably not for me because I found all that part of the story a little dull. It kind of stopped me in my tracks and interrupted the flow. I don't think I could read a story with so many unpronounceable words in it. Having said that T.H. White has now taught me .. via this story .. how to say Houyhnhnm .. which I've puzzled over for years but if I have to be neighing like a horse when I read a book then I don't think that book's for me.

 

6.
Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

I struggled every time the action moved to Mistress Masham's repose.
I was a bit bored by it and always wanted the action to return to Malplaquet.

 

7.
Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

Yes, I enjoyed it. I've been reading it at the same time as
Dracula
(not exactly at the same time obviously, I've just had them both on the go) and that in itself was a genius plan because whenever I was a little too terrified and freaked out I picked this up and it made me laugh and feel that everything was ok with the world (even though there are kitten drowning governesses and inheritance snatching vicars on the prowl.) Also I did so love being called 'my dear Amaryllis'
:D

 

8.
Would you recommend the book and if so to whom?

I'm not sure .. possibly but only to lovers of vintage children's fiction.
I don't think I'd recommend it to a child.

 

9.
The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

No, and the main reason being is that it was written in a time when children were either perceived to be or were more intelligent. They certainly must have had longer attention spans. Lord of the Rings was also written for children and it's a book that many adults struggle with now. This wasn't quite in that line but the story did make certain assumptions about the reader .. 1) that you know your history 2) that you're well read 3) that you're conversant with latin etc etc. Though it was quite absurd and silly in places it also talked to children in a grown up way .. stuff about practical politics and copious amounts of wordplay. A lot of it went over my head ... I'm not sure what I would have made of it aged 9.

10.
Maria treats the Lilliputians quite badly when she gets over her initial shock at finding them. Why does she behave this way towards them?

I agree with Janet and VF. Maria loves the Lilliputians but sees them initially as playthings and in the way that you might love your dolly but still tie it to a firework
:o
she starts taking liberties with them for her own amusement. She's not old enough to know better and she hasn't had a lot of guidance.

 

11. T H White was an atheist - do you think this comes across in his writing at all?

Not really, wicked vicars are standard fare in children's stories and it didn't feel (as a Phillip Pullman story sometimes does) that he was trying to stress a point. Although almost equal in evilness Mr Hater did baulk at the thought of murdering Maria which was quite Godly of him.
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1.
Who was your favourite character...?

 

My favourite was probably the Lord Lieutenant - I loved his eccentricity.

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

 

Well, actually, Maria was one of my least favourite characters. While thinking it awful the way Miss Brown and Mr Hater (my other two least favourites) treated her, I just couldn't like her.

 

3.
Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

 

I enjoyed the beginning of the book and Maria's discovery of the Lilliputians, and also the bits near the end with the Lord Lieutenant really made me laugh!

 

4.
Was this the first book you've read in this genre / by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

I have always had a hankering to read The Once and Future King, and might well do that, but I can't say that Mistress Masham's Repose has made me want to read more of T H White's work. I will probably read more classic children's literature in the future.

 

5.
Have you read Gulliver's Travels?

.......
a.
If yes, did it make this a more enjoyable experience?

.......
b.
If no, has this book inspired you to have a go at Swift's masterpiece?

 

I haven't read Gulliver's Travels, it has never appealed to me, and this book hasn't made me any more inclined to give it a try.

 

6.
Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

For some reason I found the capture of the pike really offputting, and I didn't enjoy the tale of the Lilliputian airman which came just after it either, and after those I never quite enjoyed the book as much again.

 

7.
Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

Do you know, I can't quite decide! I enjoyed some of it very much, and disliked some of it very much. The edition I have has really lovely illustrations, though, so I think I will read it again some day and hopefully enjoy more of it.

 

 

For some reason, I would the capture of the

 

8.
Would you recommend the book and if so to whom?

 

I don't know any fans of classic children's literature, and can't think of anyone else I would recommend it to.

 

9.
The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

 

Probably not, in that I'm not sure whether modern children would enjoy it.

 

10.
Maria treats the Lilliputians quite badly when she gets over her initial shock at finding them. Why does she behave this way towards them?

 

I agree with the others that she was just too young to properly appreciate the consequences of her actions.

 

11. T H White was an atheist - do you think this comes across in his writing at all?

 

No, I can't think of anything in the book that would have indicated that to me.
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1.
Who was your favourite character...?

 

I think possibly the professor

 

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

 

Miss Brown
and Maria was very selfish

 

3.
Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

 

The escape

 

4.
Was this the first book you've read in this genre / by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

I have read others, and there was a slight familiarity to it that suggested I had read it many moons ago

 

5.
Have you read Gulliver's Travels?

.......
a.
If yes, did it make this a more enjoyable experience?

 

No

.......
b.
If no, has this book inspired you to have a go at Swift's masterpiece?

 

Defintely not

 

6.
Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

it was obvious it was written along time ago, I can't see young people of today relating to it

 

7.
Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

No I was glad to finish it

 

8.
Would you recommend the book and if so to whom?

 

No

 

9.
The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

 

No

10.
Maria treats the Lilliputians quite badly when she gets over her initial shock at finding them. Why does she behave this way towards them?

 

She was too young to realise what she was doing and how she was hurting them

 

 

11. T H White was an atheist - do you think this comes across in his writing at all?

 

I think this is completely irrelevant

 

Sorry comments short and not very positive, but that is just how I found the book
:(
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(I want to first post my own answers and then read all the other posts by you others and comment, as I don't want my answers to be affected by other people's answers :))

 

1. Who was your favourite character...?

 

From rather early on I had a clear favorite, the Professor. In real life I get easily frustrated by absent-minded, scatterbrained people (I hope 'scatterbrained' doesn't have too negative connotations, I didn't know which words to use so I googletranslated :P) if something needs to be done with them, but in this novel I found him rather endearing. He is such a wise, dear person who loves his books, his academics, thinking, philosophy, and yet he has room in his heart for Maria and the people who are ill-treated.

 

Here's proof:

 

”'My dear neighbour,' said he, 'there is one thing which I promise, and that is that I will not say, How would you like to be wrapped up in a handkerchief? I am aware that it is not a question of you being wrapped up in one, but of this person. I will, however, make a suggestion. As we all know, I am a failure in the world. I do not rule people, nor deceive them for the sake of power, nor try to swindle their livelihood into my own possession. I say to them: Please go freely on your way, and I will do my best to follow mine. Well then Maria, although this is not a fashionable way of going on, nor even a successful one, it is a thing which I believe in – that people must not tyrannize, nor try to be great because they are little. My dear, you are a great person yourself, in any case, and you do not need to lord it over others, in order to prove your greatness.'”

 

 

”An hour later the Professor tried to scratch his head, found that the hat was in his way, and wondered why he had put it on. He made several attempts to solve this problem, by free suggestion and self-analysis, finally deciding that he had put it on because he was going out. He therefore went out, and looked at the sky. It did not seem to have any message for him. So he went in again, found a piece of paper, and wrote on it the first word which occurred to him while concentrating on hats. This was TRIPHARIUM. He tore it up and tried again, getting RATTO, which he thought was probably something to do with Bishop Hanno and the rats. So he tried HANNO and got WINDUP, tried WINDUP and got CAPE, tried CAPE and got ULSTER. He discovered that he was wearing his ulster, and was delighted. This was followed by a longish tour through the provinces of Ireland, the Annals of the Four Masters, and so forth, which brought him back to TRIPHARIUM. He tried this, and got BLOATERS, which he connected by now entirely with Sweden, took a short circuit through GOTHENBURG, WEDENBORG, BLAKE, and GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS, and suddenly remembered that he was pledged to find Maria. So he balanced the bottle-green bowler still more carefully upon his head, and trotted off to do his duty.”

 

 

However, towards the end of the book I was given the privilege of getting acquainted with Captain, the Cook's pet, or perhaps it was the other way around. What an adorable personality!

 

 

”Poor Cook, thought Captain, I must be kinder to her. She makes a splendid pet. How faithful she is! I always say you can't get the same love from a dog, not like you can from a human. So clever, too. I believe she understands every word I say. I believe they have souls, just like dogs, only of course you can't smell them. It is uncanny how canine a human can be, if you are kind to them and treat them well. I know for a fact that when some dogs in history had died, their humans lay down on the grave and howled all night and refused food and pined away.”

 

 

"'It is the same shape as a human,' thought Captain, 'in spite of the size, and it smells the same, too, only less. I think I will keep it for a pet, like Cook. I hope she won't be jealous.'"

 

So, I choose not to pick my favorite from these two :)

 

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

 

I was first gunning for the Vicar, but at least he did not wish to murder Maria, as Miss Brown did, so I have to go with Miss Brown. What a match made in heaven, the two of them.

 

 

3. Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

There are quite a few to choose from. I loved everything that included Captain, which shouldn't surprise any of you who know me and know that I love dogs. I was also very tickled by that scene I've quoted above, where the Professor is trying to think what he was supposed to do.

 

Other favorites include the part where the Professor actually goes off to investigate, and when the Professor goes to collect Lord Lieutenant.

 

The first because of all the things we learn about Malplaquet. Sorry for all the quotes, I can't help it, they make such fun reading!

 

”He searched the Orangery, where Gibbon had scratched out a semicolon in the famous last paragraph of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, before presenting the eight volume to the Duke of Gloucester – who had observed affably: ”Another damned thick book! Always scribble, scribble, scribble! Eh, Mr Gibbon?”

 

(This amuses me as a lover of books, but particularly as this book in question is part of the Rory Gilmore challenge, I believe)

 

”He searched the Chinese Parlour, into which Rousseau had suddenly rushed in 1768, when he had indignantly read out an interminable and incomprehensible letter from himself to Diderot, leaving all hearers completely stunned.

[…]

He even searched the State Room, in which Queen Victoria had held the only drawing room ever held outside a royal castle, and in it there was the very chair in which she had sat, with a glass lid over the seat, to preserve the royal imprint.

The Professor lifted the lid and sat down himself, for he was beginning to feel tired.”

 

 

Haha how funny is that. And a person who comes up with the wording 'the royal imprint' is a genius in my books.

 

The second favorite, like I mentioned above, is when the Professor visits Lord Lieutenant to ask for his help. Lord Lieutenant is outrageously irritating :D But I kept laughing as he wanted to show off his numerous little knick-knacks with various functions. So funny! And when he said he'd believe a hound, a horse, and Miss Brown, if the Professor were to produce them. And then Captain arrives and delivers the urgent message from Miss Brown, and LL thinks the hound wrote it himself. And the part about the typo! LL saying that there ought to be an 's' in 'onct', but one can't fault a hound for misspelling, spelling is not in their nature. I was in stitches! Lol.

 

(...more to follow...)

Edited by frankie
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4. Was this the first book you've read in this genre / by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

 

This wasn't the first book I've read in this genre, but I've never before read anything by T. H. White, and I have to admit I'd never even heard of him. I didn't even know if White was female or male, and I suppose I assumed White was female because he used his initials rather than his first name. So I was quite surprised when I read the introduction by Anne Fine. Fine also mentioned one of White's other novels, The Once and Future King, which is a title I've heard of before but I didn't/don't really know what it is about and where I've heard the title. I'm going to look it up after writing my answers and see if it's something I'd like to read. If any of you have read it and if you think it's worth the read, please say so if you please :)

 

So yes, I might give The Once and Future King a go :)

 

 

5. Have you read Gulliver's Travels?

 

Nope. I can't for the life of me remember what was said about this book when it was nominated as a February Reading Circle book, and if it was said somewhere that it's to do with Gulliver's Travels. I had no idea GT would be discussed in the novel, and had I known it I would've definitely given GT a go before reading MMR, I do have it on my TBR and I've been meaning to read it anyways.

 

 

6. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

I struggled with the parts where the history of the Lilliputians were discussed, and some other stuff that referred to Gulliver's Travels. I have read a short excerpt of GT, years back, for a sci-fi course we did in uni, and I had a vague idea what the novel is about and about some of the characters that are featured, but obviously not enough. For me it would've been a lot easier read had I first read GT.

 

 

7. Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

Overall, yes it was. Like some of the quotes I've posted suggest, I had a giggle every now and then and encountered some really precious characters. And it's been a while since I've last read a children's classic that I haven't already read before, so I really enjoyed getting to know a new classic.

 

 

8. Would you recommend the book and if so to whom?

 

I think I would recommend it to anyone who's enjoyed reading Gulliver's Travels, but I'm not sure if I would recommend it to others.

 

 

9. The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

 

It was still very readable and funny, but in a way I think it hasn't stood the test of time. I believe Gulliver's Travels was much more popularly read back in the day and I think T. H. White wrote the book thinking his targeted audience is familiar with GT. I'm not sure that many children or people in general read GT nowadays. However, I might be completely off the mark, me being from Finland and not knowing if GT is still read in schools in Ireland and the UK. (I had to google to see where Jonathan Swift was from, blimey, me and my general education/knowledge!) I've never come across GT in school, not even at the university (except for the sci-fi course and that was an optional course I did for my own amusement – and the credits).

 

 

10. Maria treats the Lilliputians quite badly when she gets over her initial shock at finding them. Why does she behave this way towards them?

 

I think one of the reasons was discussed in the book: she's young and might not be 'fully equipped' yet to think things through, and from other people's perspective. She didn't do it ouf of maliciousness.

 

Another reason why I think she acted the way she did is that she must've been a really lonely child. Her environment consisted of Miss Brown and the Vicar, who did everything in their power to make her miserable. She had the Cook but the Cook was working and Miss Brown would've surely separated them had they started being too buddy-buddy. The Professor was a friend but he couldn't be visited whenever. Maria must've been in desperate need and want of accompany of her peers, young children her age. As the Lilliputians were small, maybe she subconsciously thought they were sort of at the same level as she was.

 

Also, the Lilliputians were interested in her, welcomed her to come over and spend time with them. As Maria had never really socialized with peers, how was she supposed to know how to play nice.

 

 

11. T H White was an atheist - do you think this comes across in his writing at all?

 

I didn't know about White's atheism beforehand and it certainly didn't show in any way, to me, when I was reading the book. When I was half way through the book, I came to see this thread and read the questions so I could write them down and think about my answers as I was reading along, and then I found out about this. But during the rest of the novel I didn't really come across anything that would suggest to me his non-belief.

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Cook get plus points for being so kind to Maria (Cook gets double points for her kindness to the Professor too, visiting him to leave him a surreptitious parcel of ‘Bloaters’ which he knows she’s leaving, and she knows he knows she’s leaving, but etiquette means they both pretend otherwise).

 

Their 'meeting' was another delicious bit to read :D Cook was such a nice person, as was the Professor. They might've hit it off later on, I wish!

 

Slightly off-topic: I was wondering what a 'bloater' is. It sounds like a really greasy sausage that will clog one's arteries!

 

He’s best known for his Arthurian book, The Sword in the Stone, which was made into the excellent Disney film, and for the other books that make up the set The Once and Future King, but I don’t fancy those (sorry Noll, if you’re reading this!).

 

Ha, another book that's apparently famous but which I don't know about. I suppose The Sword in the Stone is the book you and I discussed in a certain PM, when we were debating this and A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, wink wink!

 

May I ask, why don't you fancy those books? And is The Once and Future King about King Arthur as well, as the title would suggest? And your words also might've suggested that but I'm not sure.

 

Had I read this first, I’m not entirely convinced I’d have gone on to read Gulliver’s Travelsthough!

 

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at that. That bad, was it? Did you enjoy GT, btw?

 

6. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

The policeman’s behaviour wasn’t terribly convincing! Then again, I am reading through adult eyes. Had I read this as a child I would probably have found him quite humourous, but I his behaviour mildly irritating! (I find that a few weeks later I can’t actually remember why/what happened, but I do remember being irritated as I was reading!).

 

Oh he was very irritating, but when I saw that it was going to continue that way for a while I couldn't help but take it as it was and it started to amuse me quite a deal :D

 

Maria has been starved of affection since losing her parents. Although Cook and the Professor do their best, they are not a substitute for friends of Maria’s own age. I think she sees the Lilliputians as toys… dolls to be loved and played with… and not as adult people. Her initial meeting with them was lovely but I thought she’d blown it with them and that they would become enemies in the book and her realisation of her bad behaviour and her change towards them was well-written.

 

Well said! I agree with you. Although you went further than I did with your analysis and made a point of the Lilliputians being like toys to her, I think that's quite aptly spotted, I wouldn't have made the connection.

 

1. Who was your favourite character...?

 

I liked Maria the best. I thought she was very realistically written. I imagined my own 10 year old daughter in Maria's place and she fitted perfectly.

 

That's interesting! To me Maria was a bit bleh. I disliked the fact that she had to live in the environment that she did, but then again I didn't feel very attached to her so I couldn't really pity her either. She wasn't a favorite, but I didn't like her the least either. Quite neutral, and she'd be quite forgettable in my opinion if she wasn't the main character.

 

I love it that we read the same books and have so different views on things :)

 

2. ...and your least favourite?

 

I disliked the Professor. He was too silly for words. Then we got to the Lord Lieutenant and he was even sillier

 

Haha, the Professor was one of my two favorites :D

 

3. Was there a particular part you enjoyed more than the rest?

Also her strop at knowing she was wrong after the pilot got hurt in her flying experiments and taking a while to admit it.

 

I liked it that she didn't take the Professor's 'scolding' nice and quiet, but was mad at first, and that it took her two days to take it all in. That made her more realistic for me. I wouldn't like to be scolded, I'm not used to confrontation so I'm easily offended and need time to be alone and mull it through. Maria was 'flawed' but so are we all, and I thought that was great.

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I also loved the ruined old house which (Impossibly) was a mile across and had rooms which had witnessed every event in English History. That is a fairy tale house to top them all. Wonderful.

 

I agree. And I loved it how the Cook used to take her bike and ride along the corridors and ring the bell before corners, to warn people that she was coming :D

 

I think this is my main grumble. It has not stood the test of time in my opinion. Now the Latin references and all the History references in the house would just go over a modern child's head. That's hardly the fault of the author though.

 

This is what I was trying to say in my own reply to this question. But like you said the author can't be blamed for that.

 

 

1. Who was your favourite character...?

I could hardly understand one word in ten that Cook said and the Professor was slightly insane but they made me laugh and their fondness for Maria made me fond of them.

 

Haha, I'm glad you said that about the Cook. I had a really hard time going through her lines and I was wondering if you native English speakers were struggling with her as well, at least a tiny bit! At first it annoyed the heck out of me, but later on I found it extremely hilarious. Remember when the Lilliputians instructed her to write the urgent message to the Professor and Lord Lieutenant? And boy did she write a message alright :D Gibberish! Haha I hope she never has to call 911 in her life.

 

I love stories about absent minded dotty people that do ridiculous things.

 

Hear hear :D

 

And I was even more amused (sorry to say VF) when the Lord Lieutenant came into the story with all his horse based paraphernalia (I spent ages laughing at that scene .. there's no hope for me really .. the bit about the key under the geranium pot amused me as well.) In fact it was all the silliness I liked, if he had taken that out I wouldn't have liked the story half so well.

 

I loved that part as well. How can anyone come up with that kind of stuff!

 

Also I did so love being called 'my dear Amaryllis'

 

Me too! :D I wonder where he came up with Amaryllis. It was so nice :D

 

9. The book was first published in 1946 - has it stood the test of time?

No, and the main reason being is that it was written in a time when children were either perceived to be or were more intelligent. They certainly must have had longer attention spans. Lord of the Rings was also written for children and it's a book that many adults struggle with now. This wasn't quite in that line but the story did make certain assumptions about the reader .. 1) that you know your history 2) that you're well read 3) that you're conversant with latin etc etc.

 

Well said and agreed!

 

Well, actually, Maria was one of my least favourite characters. While thinking it awful the way Miss Brown and Mr Hater (my other two least favourites) treated her, I just couldn't like her.

 

Ooshie, I felt the same. I mean she wasn't my least favorite, there were worse people in the book, but like you, I couldn't really feel a thing for her, and I certainly didn't particularly like her.

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In real life I get easily frustrated by absent-minded, scatterbrained people (I hope 'scatterbrained' doesn't have too negative connotations, I didn't know which words to use so I googletranslated ) if something needs to be done with them, but in this novel I found him rather endearing. He is such a wise, dear person who loves his books, his academics, thinking, philosophy, and yet he has room in his heart for Maria and the people who are ill-treated.

Scatterbrained is the perfect word to describe the professor! :D

 

”Poor Cook, thought Captain, I must be kinder to her. She makes a splendid pet. How faithful she is! I always say you can't get the same love from a dog, not like you can from a human. So clever, too. I believe she understands every word I say. I believe they have souls, just like dogs, only of course you can't smell them. It is uncanny how canine a human can be, if you are kind to them and treat them well. I know for a fact that when some dogs in history had died, their humans lay down on the grave and howled all night and refused food and pined away.”

 

 

"'It is the same shape as a human,' thought Captain, 'in spite of the size, and it smells the same, too, only less. I think I will keep it for a pet, like Cook. I hope she won't be jealous.'"

I loved these parts too! I’d forgotten about Captain, but he was cute!

 

Slightly off-topic: I was wondering what a 'bloater' is. It sounds like a really greasy sausage that will clog one's arteries!

A bloater is a type of herring – popular in the UK years ago, but I don’t recall ever seeing them in recent years. I know they used to make bloater paste. Do you get fish paste? It’s pretty vile stuff (in my opinion) sold in jars – when I was a kid we used to have salmon paste sandwiches for tea on a Sunday! If I’m recalling correctly, bearing in mind I haven’t eaten it for 30+ years, it’s like a mixture of fish and sawdust! :giggle2:

 

Ha, another book that's apparently famous but which I don't know about. I suppose The Sword in the Stone is the book you and I discussed in a certain PM, when we were debating this and A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, wink wink!

:D Wink wink indeed!

 

May I ask, why don't you fancy those books? And is The Once and Future King about King Arthur as well, as the title would suggest? And your words also might've suggested that but I'm not sure.

I’m not sure, really! I did enjoy the Disney film of the Sword in the Stone very much (I’m not sure how true to the book it is), but Arthurian legend isn’t something that really appeals to me. I’m not sure why! I live fairly near to Glastonbury which is, I believe, thought to be associated with Arthur somehow. I can’t quite put my finger on why but they just aren’t me – although maybe I’m missing out by not reading them!

 

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at that. That bad, was it? Did you enjoy GT, btw?

I would give Mistress Masham’s Repose about 3/5, I think. It wasn’t bad… just not as good as I’d anticipated. There are other books that I would consider children’s classics that I enjoyed much more than this. Things like Carrie’s War by Nina Bawden, Tom’s Midnight Garden by Phillipa Pearce (one of my favourites), Silver Sword by Ian Serraillier, Gobbolino the Witch's Cat by Ursula Williams (another favourite!) – and this just didn’t live up to them.

 

I did enjoy Gulliver’s Travels – some bits more than others, but overall it was an enjoyable experience. I read it purely because of the ‘blurb’ on the back of Mistress Masham. :)

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Me too! :D I wonder where he came up with Amaryllis. It was so nice :D

She's the daughter of Bloomsbury Group writer David Garnett, with whom White was friends. :) I didn't know until I read his entry that he wrote Aspects of Love, which Andrew Lloyd Webber turned into a musical!

 

ETA: Apparently she drowned aged 29. I found an article in The Guardian which says...

 

Amaryllis died in 1973, and her sad story may feature in a further volume of autobiography: "She was discovered in the Thames, drowned, but nobody knew why she'd fallen in, or whether she'd fallen in, or whether she'd done it herself, or what had ­happened. She didn't leave any note or anything behind her."

 

:(

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”An hour later the Professor tried to scratch his head, found that the hat was in his way, and wondered why he had put it on. He made several attempts to solve this problem, by free suggestion and self-analysis, finally deciding that he had put it on because he was going out. He therefore went out, and looked at the sky. It did not seem to have any message for him. So he went in again, found a piece of paper, and wrote on it the first word which occurred to him while concentrating on hats. This was TRIPHARIUM. He tore it up and tried again, getting RATTO, which he thought was probably something to do with Bishop Hanno and the rats. So he tried HANNO and got WINDUP, tried WINDUP and got CAPE, tried CAPE and got ULSTER. He discovered that he was wearing his ulster, and was delighted. This was followed by a longish tour through the provinces of Ireland, the Annals of the Four Masters, and so forth, which brought him back to TRIPHARIUM. He tried this, and got BLOATERS, which he connected by now entirely with Sweden, took a short circuit through GOTHENBURG, WEDENBORG, BLAKE, and GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS, and suddenly remembered that he was pledged to find Maria. So he balanced the bottle-green bowler still more carefully upon his head, and trotted off to do his duty.”

:lol: :lol: Thanks frankie you have highlighted one of my favourite passages ..that's exactly the stuff that tickled me pink

”Poor Cook, thought Captain, I must be kinder to her. She makes a splendid pet. How faithful she is! I always say you can't get the same love from a dog, not like you can from a human. So clever, too. I believe she understands every word I say. I believe they have souls, just like dogs, only of course you can't smell them. It is uncanny how canine a human can be, if you are kind to them and treat them well. I know for a fact that when some dogs in history had died, their humans lay down on the grave and howled all night and refused food and pined away.”

I've just quoted this passage on my Reading blog ... Captain was just adorable.

”He searched the Orangery, where Gibbon had scratched out a semicolon in the famous last paragraph of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, before presenting the eight volume to the Duke of Gloucester – who had observed affably: ”Another damned thick book! Always scribble, scribble, scribble! Eh, Mr Gibbon?”

 

(This amuses me as a lover of books, but particularly as this book in question is part of the Rory Gilmore challenge, I believe)

 

”He searched the Chinese Parlour, into which Rousseau had suddenly rushed in 1768, when he had indignantly read out an interminable and incomprehensible letter from himself to Diderot, leaving all hearers completely stunned.

[…]

He even searched the State Room, in which Queen Victoria had held the only drawing room ever held outside a royal castle, and in it there was the very chair in which she had sat, with a glass lid over the seat, to preserve the royal imprint.

The Professor lifted the lid and sat down himself, for he was beginning to feel tired.”

Haha how funny is that. And a person who comes up with the wording 'the royal imprint' is a genius in my books.

You can only marvel at stuff like this .. so clever and so funny.

 

The second favorite, like I mentioned above, is when the Professor visits Lord Lieutenant to ask for his help. Lord Lieutenant is outrageously irritating :D But I kept laughing as he wanted to show off his numerous little knick-knacks with various functions. So funny! And when he said he'd believe a hound, a horse, and Miss Brown, if the Professor were to produce them. And then Captain arrives and delivers the urgent message from Miss Brown, and LL thinks the hound wrote it himself. And the part about the typo! LL saying that there ought to be an 's' in 'onct', but one can't fault a hound for misspelling, spelling is not in their nature. I was in stitches! Lol.

This creased me up .. I practically lay on my back kicking my legs in the air. I forgave him then for irritating me with the little folk :D :D :D

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I have added some more questions. I know a few of you have answered some of these already but it might prompt some more discussion. :)

 

Please answer as many as you wish - and ignore any you don't like! :giggle2:

 

12. Did any of the dialogue stick out for you as being either very good… or very bad!

 

13. Were you engaged immediately with the story, or did it take you a while to get into it?

 

14. Did you find the ending of the book satisfactory? If not, what would you have changed about it?

 

15. If you enjoyed the book, would you have liked a sequel? How do you think the story could develop in the sequel?

 

16. What did you think about the setting of the book? Does it come to life? Did you feel you were experiencing the time and place in which the book was set?

 

17. From the answers to questions 1 to 11 so far (6 Feb) it seems that the book hasn’t stood the test of time as it feels rather dated. Despite this, do you think the same basic story could be written today in a way which was convincing and enjoyable to today’s young people?

 

18. If you were able to talk to T H White, is there anything you would you ask him about the book?

 

19. If your book has an introduction did you read it?

a) If yes, did you read it before or after you’d read the actual story?

b) If you read it before the story, did it enhance your enjoyment in any way?

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I will come back to those questions later, but in the meantime I must share a coincidence with you!

 

Whilst reading the book, the word Quincunx came up on a number of occasions, and I didn't know what it meant (apart from that it would be something to do with the number 5) so I looked it up in my dictionary that was in the lounge.

 

As a separate event, I used the word tactile in a post in my reading blog, and frankie commented that she had not come across this word before - we had a little discussion about it in my blog the day after I finished Mistress Masham's Repose, and afterwards I popped onto dictionary.com just to reassure myself I'd used it in the correct context, even though I was fairly sure I had!

 

They have a little word quiz on dictionary.com. Imagine my surprise when I saw what the word that came up when I looked up tactile...

 

 

xforMistressMashamdiscussion.jpg

 

 

Spooky coincidence or what?!

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Very :o .. but put me out of my misery .. which of those does it mean? I'm guessing the latter but only because of the 'five'.

 

I will study the questions later and see if my brain can come up with anything .. it came up with a combination for a sandwich about half an hour ago (chicken and lettuce with some garlic & herb dip as a sort of mayo) so it's possible :smile:

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Very :o .. but put me out of my misery .. which of those does it mean? I'm guessing the latter but only because of the 'fI've'.

Yup, that's the one. :) A quincunx is an arrangement of five objects in the shape of a cross, being a square of four objects with one object in the middle. So as a good example, the number 5 on a dice is arranged quincunxially!

 

In MMR, the Quincunx was actually the lake, so I don't think it's like the proper definition. One of the books illustrates the grounds thus (I suppose the island is the fifth, middle spot but it's not totally clear what the other four spots are!). I wish my book was illustrated!

 

Your sandwich sounds lush!

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12. Did any of the dialogue stick out for you as being either very good… or very bad!

Frankie has already highlighted my favourite bit of text – the bit where Captain is discussing what a good pet cook is!

 

I learned from Google after typing in ‘significance of 365, 52 and 12 in large buildings’ (Malplaquet has "365 windows, 52 state bedrooms and 12 company rooms") that there is such a thing as a calendar house, where architectural features are built with those numbers in them to signify days in a year, weeks in a year and months in a year!

 

13. Were you engaged immediately with the story, or did it take you a while to get into it?

I got into it quite quickly, but like someone else has already said, I enjoyed the bits at Malplaquet much more than the bits that took place on the island, so I ‘properly’ got into it once the action had moved away from the island again.

 

14. Did you find the ending of the book satisfactory? If not, what would you have changed about it?

I did enjoy the ending. However, there is something that is puzzling me (and I’d love someone to fill me in as I don’t really want to re-read the book!). At the beginning, we’re told that Maria’s parents had died and that “there had been no money left. Not even enough to live respectably in a boarding house, somewhere else.” At the end, when Maria’s lawyers successfully sue for ‘mort d’ancestre’ “the result was that the whole of Maria’s great inheritance had been restored.” What inheritance – where did it come from?

 

15. If you enjoyed the book, would you have liked a sequel? How do you think the story could develop in the sequel?

I don’t think there was enough story left for a sequel – although I think it would have been nice to have found out what happened to Maria – and to Malplaquet – perhaps 20 years on!

 

16. What did you think about the setting of the book? Does it come to life? Did you feel you were experiencing the time and place in which the book was set?

As I said above, the action that took place at Malplaquet (and in fact, all the locations away from the island) were where the best parts of the story took place. I've already answered but yes, I felt it was taking place in the time it was set - but it also had a hint of 18th century about it, which is when Gulliver's Travels was published.

 

17. From the answers to questions 1 to 11 so far (6 Feb) it seems that the book hasn’t stood the test of time as it feels rather dated. Despite this, do you think the same basic story could be written today in a way which was convincing and enjoyable to today’s young people?

I think the story of Maria’s lost inheritance, her loyal friends and the two ‘badies’ could be written for today’s audience and the story would still be enjoyable. I’m not convinced that the ‘Lilliputian’ side of the story would stand up though.

 

I do wonder why this isn't as well known as other children's classics written around the same period.

 

18. If you were able to talk to T H White, is there anything you would you ask him about the book?

I would love to know where he got his inspiration for the story from – and whether he knew a Mr Hater in real life!

 

19. If your book has an introduction did you read it?

a) If yes, did you read it before or after you’d read the actual story?

b) If you read it before the story, did it enhance your enjoyment in any way?

I read it. In my edition it was just the author Anne Fine telling us how much she’d enjoyed the book as a child, and that as an author it would be her answer to the question often asked of authors “if you could have written any book, which would it be?” I read it before I started the story (as it was only one side long). It didn’t enhance my reading at all - but neither did it ruin anything! I wonder if anyone had different editions with different introductions.

 

My book didn’t have any illustrations, but I’ve seen since that some older editions have line drawings in them – I’d have quite liked the illustrated version!

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I'm going to cut these questions into bite sized chunks :D

12. Did any of the dialogue stick out for you as being either very good… or very bad!

Frankie has quoted most of my faves already .. some more stuff I liked ..

 

'Prisoners had scratched their last remarks upon the walls. The Little Princes, who were finished off at Malplaquet and not in the Tower, had written 'Adiew', 'Adiew'. A witch had inscribed, before they burned her 'I come, Graymalkin', and some homesick Scot, tired by too much thumbscrew had suggested 'East, Quhest, Hame Ys Best'. An anonymous villain had written 'yis hurte me mo than it hurtes yow.'

 

'He searched the Rent Room, where the Wicked Earl had once run his estate agent through the body - the former claimed during his trial by the Lords that it had been in a duel, but the agent still walked on Tuesday nights, with the hilt of a sword in the small of his back, which was a good argument to the contrary.'

 

'She climbed the Grand Staircase and trotted down the Ducal Corridor, mounted the Second Best Staircase and passed the Corridor for Distinguished Strangers, plodded up the Privy Stairs in Ordinary and tiptoed down the Third Best Corridor Once Removed'.

 

I'd quote all of Chapter 28 where the Professor wakes up the Lord Lieutenant if it wouldn't give me writers cramp. I laughed the whole time.

 

but for some reason I didn't like ..

 

'The campaign, Ma'am, which follow'd the Declaration, was exasperated by the old Bitterness of the Big-Endian Heresy - A Topick of Dissension, which I am happy to say we have since resolved by a Determination to break such Eggs as we are able to find in the Middle - and, no Quarter being ask'd or given by either Schism, the War was signalized by Atrocities and Inhumanities hitherto unexampled in the Legends of our People.'

 

My head buzzed every bit as much as Maria's whilst listening to the History and I hated the word Oeconomy whenever it turned up

.

13. Were you engaged immediately with the story, or did it take you a while to get into it?

It took me a while to get into it .. I was expecting to find it easy and I didn't at first. He has quite a quirky style and one that I didn't immediately fall in with. Once I got into his stride I was fine .. more than fine I learnt to expect the jokes and enjoyed them more as a result although anything to do with the History bored me.

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'The campaign, Ma'am, which follow'd the Declaration, was exasperated by the old Bitterness of the Big-Endian Heresy - A Topick of Dissension, which I am happy to say we have since resolved by a Determination to break such Eggs as we are able to find in the Middle - and, no Quarter being ask'd or given by either Schism, the War was signalized by Atrocities and Inhumanities hitherto unexampled in the Legends of our People.'

I'd forgotten that bit of dialogue, but yes, my head boggled at that too! :lol:

 

Thanks for responding - I shall look forward to some more of your answers. :)

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14. Did you find the ending of the book satisfactory? If not, what would you have changed about it?

I did like the ending .. 'the good ended happily and the bad unhappily .. that is what fiction means' .. to quote Oscar Wilde (not sure he used ellipses but still :D ) I enjoyed the lead-up to the ending enormously, everything that came after Maria's confinement in the dungeon I thought was marvellous. I felt quite anxious for her ... sleeping all alone at the Professors (although only he knew where the key was :D ) with two arch enemies in hot pursuit .. one at least, intent on murder.

 

Janet :smile: Regarding the inheritance, I think it was some sort of old ancestral inheritance which was tied up like 'Jarndyce vs Jarndyce' until that is the Professor found an old document in the dungeons which helped release it. I'm rather hoping to find something similar myself .. 'I'm hourly expecting' as Mr Micawber might say :D

15. If you enjoyed the book, would you have liked a sequel? How do you think the story could develop in the sequel?

I liked the book a lot but don't think it warranted a sequel. It was nice to leave Maria, Cook, Captain & the Professor in comfortable circumstances but that's as much as I wanted to know.

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Whilst reading the book, the word Quincunx came up on a number of occasions.

I'd never heard of the word until reading it in Mistress Masham but when I went in to Waterstones yesterday on one of their displays promoting 'Dickens & the Victorians' was this ...

quincunx.jpg

I think the word is following us about Janet :D You wait .. there'll be a 'Quincunx Tea Rooms' opening in Bath soon :D

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