Reading Lolita in Tehran

[Ooshie]

1. Eventhough this was not a fictional novel, how did you like the set of people featured in the book and their portrayals? Did you have any favorites?

 

For some reason, I didn't feel very engaged with any of the people in the book and, despite the fact that some of them had gone through terrible experiences, I didn't really care much about what happened to them. My favourite person in the book was actually Nafisi's husband, Bijan, who seemed quite a calm and sensible sort.

2. What were your expectations for the book before you started reading it, and were they met by the book?

 

I had expected to have more descriptions and discussion about the books mentioned, and was a bit disappointed that this wasn't the case.

3. What do you think of Nafisi's style of writing, how she constructed the book and what she had to say?

 

I found her style of writing a bit too dispassionate and dry; even though I found what she had to say interesting, it just didn't engage me on an emotional level. I would rather the book had followed time chronologically, as I got a bit confused at parts (not that it takes much to confuse me!).

4. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? In addition, did the book make you want to learn and read more about the Islamic culture?

 

I usually only read fiction, and RLiT hasn't made me want to read more memoirs; I also probably wouldn't choose to read anything else by the author, and it didn't spark any particular interest in Islamic culture for me. But that's probably just because I'm too set in my ways!

5. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

I really just struggled with getting through the book! It took me ages to read.

6. Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

I think I would describe it as interesting rather than enjoyable.

7. Discuss different attitudes toward the veil in Iran (Mashid - who wore it from choice, but disliked its political enforcement; Nafisi - refusing to teach if she had to wear it; those who thought there were bigger battles to fight). What do you think? Which side do you take?

 

In principle I would just have worn the veil and got on with my life; however, I'm not very good at being told what to do, so if I found myself in the situation I might well behave differently!

8. Have you read any of the books that were discussed in RLiT? Which ones? Did you share any opinions with Nafisi and the others, and/or did Nafisi and the rest make you think of the book(s) in a different light? And which books did you add to your wishlist?

 

I can't now remember exactly which books that were discussed which I have read, but from the "Selected Reading" list at the back I have read Wuthering Heights, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Madame Bovary, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. Oh, yes, and I have read Lolita and The Great Gatsby. On my shelf waiting to be read I have The Master and Margarita, The Big Sleep, and The Ambassadors. I purposely didn't add any to my wishlist as it is already far too long already.

[frankie]

Oops! my bad for not reading the question properly! It really would be a hard decsion, as Nafasi really lived for teaching it seemed (to me anyway!) If she refused, she would not have been able to teach, which seemed to be one of her passions in life. Then again if she wore the veil, she would have been able to carry on with what she loved, but under circumstances that she didnt agree with. It really is like being on a see-saw!

 

It's definitely a lose-lose situation. I think it was the magician who kind of grasped the situation for what it was: Nafisi had two awful scenarios in which she would have to compromise herself, but the lesser evil of the two was definitely teaching, because that was her passion. And I think he said something like she would nag less at home if she could spend the day doing what she loves: teaching students.

 

Personally I think, but I probably will have changed my mind by tonight, I would have made a stand and not worn a veil. It is very easy for me to say that, because I would never have to go through anywhere near the hardships that women in Iran had to go through. It might have been a different decision if I had lived in a place like Iran and all the other presures that would surround me.

 

It is definitely harder to say what one would do, because we all lead much more comfortable lives and don't have to make those kinds of choices. Personally I think that I would be too much of a coward not to wear the veil: I'd be too afraid of attracting unwanted attention, and I would always fear for my safety. I would also enjoy the underground feel to it: I'd go to the uni, looking all appropriate and resigned, but rejoicing in the fact that I could teach the students whatever I liked in secret.

 

Ooshie, reading your answers to questions 1-3 was like reading my own answers. I dare say this book might not have been the easiest way to get into reading memoirs for someone who hasn't read many (auto)biographies before. Or at least that is my personal opinion.

 

4. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? In addition, did the book make you want to learn and read more about the Islamic culture?

 

I usually only read fiction, and RLiT hasn't made me want to read more memoirs; I also probably wouldn't choose to read anything else by the author, and it didn't spark any particular interest in Islamic culture for me. But that's probably just because I'm too set in my ways!

 

I'm sorry to hear that after reading this book you probably won't be getting into other memoirs, but I wouldn't dare try and persuade you otherwise. Each to their own!

5. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

I really just struggled with getting through the book! It took me ages to read.

 

I respect and appreciated the fact that you finished it when you didn't really have to!

Edited August 21, 2011 by frankie

[frankie]

8. Have you read any of the books that were discussed in RLiT? Which ones? Did you share any opinions with Nafisi and the others, and/or did Nafisi and the rest make you think of the book(s) in a different light? And which books did you add to your wishlist?

 

From other people's posts I've gathered that there's a recommended reading list at the end of the book? I'm very mad at my Finnish copy, there's no such thing on my version Is it a very long list, could I be as bold as to ask if someone would be willing to write the list on here?

 

I've only read Great Gatsby, which I really liked, but I think I should definitely re-read it soon, as I think I would get so much more out of the book having read all the analysis of it in this book. Oh and yes, I've of course read my Jane Austens and love them all, except for Mansfield Park which I loath. Fanny Price is in my opinion very annoying, as are most of the other characters and I just can't stand anything about the book

 

I've had Lolita on my TBR for a few years but I've always been a bit intimidated and apprehensive about starting the book, however after reading RLiT I felt it was the perfect time to finally read the book, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't agree with some of the opinions on Lolita in RLiT, I don't think Nabokov was setting out to portray Humbert Humbert as someone we should sympathise with. Although I think in RLiT those kinds of opinions came from the more conservative students, not Nafisi's reading group or herself.

 

I added Daisy Miller to my list, it seemed like an interesting read and the students had a strong reaction to her character. I also now want to read Salman Rushdie and Henry James.

 

By the way, I'm currently reading Literary Trivia - Over 300 Curious Lists for Bookworms, and there was this piece of info on Salman Rushdie which I found very interesting and liked how I read it coincidentally after reading RLiT and wanting to read Rushdie:

 

"10 Books that Were Burned:

Islamic fundamentalists across the world burned copies of Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses when a fatwa was imposed on him in 1988. "

 

Needless to say, I'm all the more curious about Rushdie. Which just goes to show that when something is banned, it usually bites the people issuing the ban in the backside. It just makes the banned object more curious and people want to know about it.

 

Another thing that I found very curious was when on page 101 of my copy Nasrin talks about Sayings of the Ayatollah Khomeini: Political, Philosophical, Social & Religious (which by the way has made it's way to my wishlist, out of curiosity). Her father disappoved of the reading group and so she felt obliged to come up with the excuse of translating Islamic texts into English. Then she actually did a bit of translating to make up for her lying to her father. She translated said book by Ayatollah Khomeini and there were some pretty harrowing stuff in it. Remember? For example, there was this part where it said that one way to cure a man from his excessive libido is to have sexual relations with an animal. And then there's the problem of how to do it with a chicken, and can the man who did it later eat that chicken.

 

Well anyway, quite rightly Nasrin was questioning her father's opinions. Would her father rather she read that kind of book by Ayatollah Khomeini, than with Jane Austen or Nabokov? It seems like a matter of the fear of the unknown (as well as a religious conviction). Which led me to think about all the propaganda against America in the book. Where does it all stem from? I don't think the imperialism thing was explained in the book, or if it was, I totally missed it. Does anyone know why the Islamic society and Iran was so set against America?

Edited August 21, 2011 by frankie

[frankie]

Very random questions:

 

10. Did you learn anything from this book? And when reading, how much do you read for the entertainment or escape value, and how much is your reading based on your wish to learn things from books?

11. Relating to previous question: Since this was a memoir, based on facts and true events and lives: Do you think there is a difference for you, in reading memoirs/(auto)biographies and fiction? Does the biographical portrayal have a bigger impact on you than a fictional one, because it's based on real life? Or can a work of fiction have just as big an impact on you as a biography?

 

12. Dr. Nafisi's question on the first day of class was: "What should fiction accomplish? Why should anyone read at all?" What do you think? Why was it so important to the women in the group? Is fiction important to you? (question from here.)

[Ooshie]

From other people's posts I've gathered that there's a recommended reading list at the end of the book? I'm very mad at my Finnish copy, there's no such thing on my version Is it a very long list, could I be as bold as to ask if someone would be willing to write the list on here?

 

Yes, of course you could, frankie

 

Persuasion - Jane Austen

The Dean's December - Herzog

More Die of Heartbreak - Saul Bellow

The Clown - Heinrich Boll

Wuthering Heights - Emily Bronte

The Master and Margarita - Mikhail Bulgakov

If on a winter's night a traveler - Italo Calvino

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland - Lewis Carroll

The Big Sleep - Raymond Chandler

Under Western Eyes - Joseph Conrad

Jacques Le Fatalists - Diderot

Tom Jones and Shamela - Henry Fielding

Madame Bovary - Gustave Flaubert

Buf-e-Kur (The Blind Owl) - Sadeq Hedayat

The Ambassadors - Henry James

The Trial and In the Penal Colony - Franz Kafka

The Confidence Man - Herman Melville

Pnin - Vladimor Nabokov

My Uncle Napoleon - Iraj Pezeshkzad

Wide Sargasso Sea - Jean Rhys

A Thousand and One Nights - Scheherazade

Loitering with Intent and The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie - Muriel Spark

The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman - Laurence Sterne

Confessions of Zeno - Italo Svevo

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn - Mark Twain

To the Lighthouse - Virginia Woolf

 

Apologies for any mistakes as I am typing this with only one contact lens in so the world is a bit blurry!

[frankie]

Thank you Ooshie for taking the trouble to post the list, it's a bit longer than I expected! And to do it when you were half blind as well, oh my Ooshie, double thanks, and apologies for the inconvenience as well

[Ooshie]

Thank you Ooshie for taking the trouble to post the list, it's a bit longer than I expected! And to do it when you were half blind as well, oh my Ooshie, double thanks, and apologies for the inconvenience as well

 

You are very welcome, frankie!

 

10. Did you learn anything from this book? And when reading, how much do you read for the entertainment or escape value, and how much is your reading based on your wish to learn things from books?

 

I really read purely for entertainment these days; when I was younger I used to read to learn things (I learned to swim from a book!), and my husband only ever reads to learn things.

 

However, the one thing that I was surprised to learn from this book (and it just shows how dumb I am!) was that the women wear normal clothes under their coverings and take those coverings off when they are indoors. I had rather stupidly never thought of that and just assumed they dressed in the veil all the time!

 

11. Relating to previous question: Since this was a memoir, based on facts and true events and lives: Do you think there is a difference for you, in reading memoirs/(auto)biographies and fiction? Does the biographical portrayal have a bigger impact on you than a fictional one, because it's based on real life? Or can a work of fiction have just as big an impact on you as a biography?

 

Well, for me there is a big difference, because I enjoy fiction and I don't really enjoy memoirs or biographies. I think in part it is because I read to escape, and I'm not interested in having to think about what the real people went through in their various situations. Works of fiction tend to have much more of an impact on me, because I totally engage with those while I read them.

 

12. Dr. Nafisi's question on the first day of class was: "What should fiction accomplish? Why should anyone read at all?" What do you think? Why was it so important to the women in the group? Is fiction important to you?

 

I don't really know that fiction "should" accomplish anything. I think that if anyone, anywhere enjoys the story then that is fiction's function fulfilled. If it sometimes leads to people thinking more deeply about something, then all well and good, but I don't see that as it's primary function. I don't really know why it was important to the women in the group - escapism maybe? Fiction is hugely important to me, I read fiction every single day, and it gives me something to look forward to.

 

Hey, frankie, I bet you thought I was never going to get round to answering these last questions!

[frankie]

10. Did you learn anything from this book? And when reading, how much do you read for the entertainment or escape value, and how much is your reading based on your wish to learn things from books?

 

I really read purely for entertainment these days; when I was younger I used to read to learn things (I learned to swim from a book!), and my husband only ever reads to learn things.

 

However, the one thing that I was surprised to learn from this book (and it just shows how dumb I am!) was that the women wear normal clothes under their coverings and take those coverings off when they are indoors. I had rather stupidly never thought of that and just assumed they dressed in the veil all the time!

 

I'm sure I also believed that the women were veiled all the time, except for maybe when they were at home with family. I also learnt that Iran hasn't always been such a strict, fundamentalist country.

 

I also learnt (once again!) that my reading of books is so poor most of the time: there's always so much more to the story, the symbolism, the structure, the narrative, everything, that I don't always pay particular attention to, and I really lack any skills for real analyses. However, I recently read somewhere (I'm not sure if it was in Reading Lolita in Tehran or somewhere else) that someone was of the opinion that reading and analyses doesn't really start until the second reading of the same book. So I believe I have hope!

 

 

11. Relating to previous question: Since this was a memoir, based on facts and true events and lives: Do you think there is a difference for you, in reading memoirs/(auto)biographies and fiction? Does the biographical portrayal have a bigger impact on you than a fictional one, because it's based on real life? Or can a work of fiction have just as big an impact on you as a biography?

 

Well, for me there is a big difference, because I enjoy fiction and I don't really enjoy memoirs or biographies. I think in part it is because I read to escape, and I'm not interested in having to think about what the real people went through in their various situations. Works of fiction tend to have much more of an impact on me, because I totally engage with those while I read them.

 

I find that very interesting, because I really enjoy reading biographies and memoirs, and for me they sometimes underline the old saying that reality is much more complicated and interesting and whatnot than fictional stories (I don't remember the exact saying now). However, I enjoy reading fiction too, and I've always admired people who can come up with a unique story and a gripping way to put it in writing. Just like you Ooshie, I read to escape, and that's actually great that you brought up that aspect, because the students in the novel also read to escape the reality. I find it really interesting that they who have different kinds of struggles in their life in Iran on a daily basis, read for escapism, just as we do, and when compared, presumably we don't have that much to escape from. At least I don't.

 

Ooshie, you're a real trooper to still give memoirs a go and read A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius!

 

12. Dr. Nafisi's question on the first day of class was: "What should fiction accomplish? Why should anyone read at all?" What do you think? Why was it so important to the women in the group? Is fiction important to you?

 

I don't really know that fiction "should" accomplish anything. I think that if anyone, anywhere enjoys the story then that is fiction's function fulfilled. If it sometimes leads to people thinking more deeply about something, then all well and good, but I don't see that as it's primary function. I don't really know why it was important to the women in the group - escapism maybe? Fiction is hugely important to me, I read fiction every single day, and it gives me something to look forward to.

 

Hey, frankie, I bet you thought I was never going to get round to answering these last questions!

 

Well, I wasn't expecting or not expecting anything. To be honest, I feel like I've failed as a host, there's been rather little discussion this month and not that many participants Maybe it came down to my choice of theme, who knows.

[Kylie]

Au contraire, Frankie, I think there's been good discussion of the book. I'm afraid I've not contributed much, though. I've probably read enough to answer the questions, but I haven't found the time to do so!

[poppyshake]

Hold on Frankie, I've just got a copy of the book (gave up on the library but found it in a local charity shop) and have started .. it's quite a challenge isn't it? I've been shouting at it a bit because of the way women are treated in Iran :irked: I thought I knew a bit about it and then I read a few chapters and oh man, I really had no idea. Don't bite an apple or lick an ice cream in the street???? One thing I've already found out is that I admire these women enormously.

[Maureen]

1. Eventhough this was not a fictional novel, how did you like the set of people featured in the book and their portrayals? Did you have any favorites?

 

I sympathised with the people featured, however I cannot say that I had a particular favorite. Maybe it was because I did not identify with any of them?

 

2. What were your expectations for the book before you started reading it, and were they met by the book?

 

I did not have any expectations before starting the book, but I quite enjoyed it - I was alive during the times these events took place, but apart from something I used to hear grown-ups discussing, this had had no interest for me whatsoever. Nowadays I can better understand and appreciate what these peoples were going through.

 

 

3. What do you think of Nafisi's style of writing, how she constructed the book and what she had to say?

 

Nafisi's book was much like a dairy in my opinion. It was different to works of fiction, and the style made the story all the more 'alive', as if the author is writing it day by day as she experienced life in Iran.

 

 

4. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? In addition, did the book make you want to learn and read more about the Islamic culture?

 

It is the first book by Nafisi, but I have read books about Islamic Culture before, and they have all exhausted me while reading them. I find the beliefs and culture particularly harsh and cruel, and I feel unhappy during the course of reading these books.

 

 

5. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

 

Well the fact that a young innocent girl is raped and killed lawfully just because someone had an erection while looking at her forehead (or was it chin?) is most upsetting and inhumane. It is also beyond belief that there could be a law sancioning a marriage contract of 10 minutes. Pfff!!!

 

 

6. Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

It was an experience, and I am glad I read it, but I cannot say it was enjoyable.

 

7. Discuss different attitudes toward the veil in Iran (Mashid - who wore it from choice, but disliked its political enforcement; Nafisi - refusing to teach if she had to wear it; those who thought there were bigger battles to fight). What do you think? Which side do you take?

 

 

For me, having to wear a veil would feel as an act of subjugation and humilation. I can identify with Nafisi - I would probably avoid going out to prevent the need to capitulate.

 

8. Have you read any of the books that were discussed in RLiT? Which ones? Did you share any opinions with Nafisi and the others, and/or did Nafisi and the rest make you think of the book(s) in a different light? And which books did you add to your wishlist?

 

I have not read any of the books discussed. I have read Huckelberry Finn and Alice in Wonderland when I was younger, but now I will definately read Lolita, and Daisy Miller.

 

9. On page 100 of my copy, Manna says, sarcastically, that Nima is of the opinion that women don't understand how difficult it is also for the men to live in Iran, that they don't know how they should act, either. That they sometimes act like macho tyrants, because they feel vulnerable. And on page 220 Nafisi talks about how she started resenting her husband's happiness and peace, because even he didn't seem to understand what Nafisi had to put up with, as a woman and an academic. So my thoughts are, as the men seem to hold the power, should the 'common' man take a more active role in objecting the government and the laws? And is there a way for them to do this, as the government seems so rigid and set in their ways? Do you agree with Nafisi, that it was easy for the men to overlook the struggles of the women because they themselves were 'safe'?

 

 

It is easier for men to overlook these 'laws', I agree, but then again they will be scared of the repercussions should they dare oppose the government, I would think. It is easier for anyone to turn a blind eye when things are not directly affecting them, or to say that a few people's objections will not make much difference, let alone when these objections could be an invitation for death or worse. What is far worse is when these 'men' would accuse the women of having caused them to have sexual thoughts, knowing that they would be subjecting them to harsh punishments for their own wishes and desires. How cruel is that?

[Maureen]

 

 

Well, I wasn't expecting or not expecting anything. To be honest, I feel like I've failed as a host, there's been rather little discussion this month and not that many participants Maybe it came down to my choice of theme, who knows.

 

 

I don't agree that you failed as a host at all frankie. The book was a difficult one, some people steer clear of these books, but that is why they make interesting Reading Circle choices in my opinion. Probably I would not have picked this up were it not for the Circle....and I'm sure there are others who could say the same.

[vodkafan]

You certainly didn't fail as a host Frankie. If even one person reads a book they normally would not have picked up...that's a success

[poppyshake]

I am disgustingly late, sorry Frankie

 

1. Even though this was not a fictional novel, how did you like the set of people featured in the book and their portrayals? Did you have any favorites?

I thought the characters were interesting, I wasn't able to fix all of them in my head, I sometimes got a bit confused between them but I had a particular soft spot for Yassi and Nassrin. I just managed to picture them more and perhaps because Yassi especially was more open and less guarded, I felt I knew her more.

 

2. What were your expectations for the book before you started reading it, and were they met by the book?

I expected it to be about a group of women reading banned literature in Iran and as such that's what it was but I didn't fully understand the harsh realities of what life is really like for women there, it was a complete wake up call. I would have preferred to hear more about their discussions re books but I felt it was important to give us the background story of the girls, to see exactly what they were dealing with day to day.

 

3. What do you think of Nafisi's style of writing, how she constructed the book and what she had to say?

I liked it, I felt she was very good at conveying sights, smells and atmospheres, she describes in detail but she doesn't get over emotional and also she writes with humour which, given the circumstances, is not easy. It was quite humbling to read about what these women go through, and especially so when it comes to reading classic books. I often take my book to the local park and pick up a coffee and a muffin on the way and it's never struck me really that I'm doing something that I would never dare do in an Islamic republic. I thought they were all incredibly brave, courageous and principled.

4. Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more? In addition, did the book make you want to learn and read more about the Islamic culture?

It's not my first memoir but I've not read anything else by this author or by anyone else talking about life in Iran. I guess I do want to read more but it's not something I would look forward to, it made me angry. I definitely want to read some of the books they discussed, 'Daisy Miller', 'Lolita', 'Washington Square' and 'The Ambassadors'.

5. Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

Yes, nearly everything that related to the law according to the Islamic Republic of Iran. The way women are treated there is just appalling, to have to walk in the streets as if you are invisible so that no attention is drawn to you and then if a man does become titillated by you because of a square inch of neck or ankle or whatever, then it is deemed as your fault and you are punished. To not be able to be alone .. or in a group .. with male company unless you are related or married to them, to not be able to eat an apple in the street and to be forced to cover up your whole body as if it's something to be ashamed of. As a reader too, it's horrifying to think that reading books could get you imprisoned, stoned or killed and I hate hearing about books being burned. It's a book to make you on the one hand despair of mankind but on the other feel terribly proud of the people that struggle against oppressive regimes, even in the face of death, because it must be so easy to just give in and submit to all these indignities and be so brainwashed that you don't even wish for change.

 

6. Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

No, but it was an enlightening one and I did enjoy all the in depth discussions they had about books. I felt that the girls understood and treasured the stories even more because of their situation. It was like every book they read was a victory for them, another small rebellion.

[poppyshake]

7. Discuss different attitudes toward the veil in Iran (Mashid—who wore it from choice, but disliked its political enforcement; Nafisi—refusing to teach if she had to wear it; Those who thought there were bigger battles to fight). What do you think? Which side do you take?

It's a difficult one isn't it, I don't believe anyone should be forced to wear the veil in Iran, if they choose to then that's another thing. There are some Muslim women here who fight for their right to wear the veil (sometimes needing to do so because, in the minds of some British people, veils are linked to Islam which is linked to terrorism or threat.) They say they feel empowered by wearing it but then would they still feel that if they lived in a country where it was law? But then it is also a symbol of faith and as such it is their right to wear it if they choose. There should always be freedom of choice though.

There are bigger battles to fight but then as the song goes .. 'if you tolerate this ....' If it was me I know I'd be one of those that submitted for the sake of a peaceful life .. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be wearing nail polish either ... I'm not courageous enough to make a stand but I would try to avoid being in situations where I had to wear it, becoming reclusive and probably resentful into the bargain.