pontalba Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 he and his brother remind me a little of my brother and myself when we were kids. Unwrapping the Christmas presents and looking and then re-wrapping them.......unsuccessfully. My brother and I found where our Christmas toys were hid and had the toys worn out before Christmas and then re-wrapped them....unsuccessfully. muggle, I am an only child, it must be wonderful to have sibling memories like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 This discussion is really heating up , but ARgggghhhhhh I'm stuck in DC at a surgical conference and haven't anytime to read, or discuss. I'll be back in the fold by Saturday. The good news is I'll be visiting the American History Museum today. I'll be sure to pay close attention to anything related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 This discussion is really heating up , but ARgggghhhhhh I'm stuck in DC at a surgical conference and haven't anytime to read, or discuss. I'll be back in the fold by Saturday. The good news is I'll be visiting the American History Museum today. I'll be sure to pay close attention to anything related. Sounds great! Both that you'll be back, and the Museum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well the American History Museum is under renovation so I hit the Natural History Museum instead. To honor our VN I toured the butterfly garden. Apparently (If I read this right) 170 species of butterfly frequent the garden. He would have been in heaven I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Oh Boy! Sounds marvelous! Thought you'd be interested in this link.... http://www.amazon.com/Nabokovs-Blues-Scientific-Odyssey-Literary/dp/0071373306/sr=1-1/qid=1160073741/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7799685-9162534?ie=UTF8&s=books Oh! Just saw the picture! Gorgeous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks for the link. On a similar note I just picked up this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 The reviews were contradictory, some claiming the book did not live up to it's title a bit. But honestly, the only reason I was interested in the butterfly book was because of Nabokov himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 The reviews were contradictory, some claiming the book did not live up to it's title a bit. But honestly, the only reason I was interested in the butterfly book was because of Nabokov himself. Now how did I forget already about nabokov and the butterflies. BTW dogmatix, great photo of the butterfly. All Butterflies are beautiful things. I am about 2/3 through chapter 3. I am amazed at his recollection of all the relatives, the dates, their line of work, etc. Wow, what a family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Great muggle! Some people bog down in that chapter, but he made it so interesting and funny with the reminiscences. "Everything is water..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Speaking of Darwin and tying in a point Pontalba made about the importance of nature as a theme here. (chapter 6 pg 125 our VN says): "When a butterfly has to look like a leaf, not only are the details of the leaf beautifully rendered but markings mimicking grub-bored holes are generously thrown in. 'Natural selection', in the Darwinian sense, could not explain the miraculous coincidences of imitative aspect and imitative behavior, nor could one appeal to the theory of the 'struggle for life' when a protective device was carried to a point of mimetic subtlety, exuberance, and luxury far in excess of a predator's power of appreciation. I discovered in nature the nonutilitarian delights that I sought in art. Both were a form of magic, both were a game of intricate enchantment and deception" I believe he is speaking about devine design here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I believe he is speaking about devine design here. Dogmatix, He does seem to be doing exactly that right there while, on the other hand, remaining entirely non-committal with respect to belief in the details of any organized religion or in the God of any organized religion. In that respect he seems to be following his mother's attitudes toward religion that I think I'm going to be finding summarized in Chapter 2, which I am now getting to (again). The summary phrase that I remember, standing out from previous reading, was his confidence in "marching in the right direction" toward an afterlife, without at the same time being able to know any specifics about its details. His religious attitude pokes through here and there as I recall -- in the paragraph you note, and also elsewhere here and there in his novels -- but most notably in Transparent Things where the afterlife becomes a full-fledged (and interactive!) part of the story for the first and only(?) time. IMO it's a fascinating theme to try to follow through his work, because his viewpoint seems to be quite uniquely his own and he holds to it quite consistently. I hope some of this sounds familiar to all of you who are ahead of me in the reading. My memory speaks also, but very cloudy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Dogmatix,He does seem to be doing exactly that right there while, on the other hand, remaining entirely non-committal with respect to belief in the details of any organized religion or in the God of any organized religion. In that respect he seems to be following his mother's attitudes toward religion that I think I'm going to be finding summarized in Chapter 2, which I am now getting to (again). I hope some of this sounds familiar to all of you who are ahead of me in the reading. My memory speaks also, but very cloudy. Very familiar, here is some info from Brian Boyd's Vladimir Nabokov: The Russian Years p. 72: ...In fact, once past the stage of children's prayers he always remained completely aloof from "Christianism," as he called it, utterly indifferent "to organized mysticism, to religion, to the church--any church." Because his mother was of Old Believer stock, she had what Nabokov considered a "healthy distaste for the ritual of the Greek Catholic Church and for its priests," but equally important for the boy's development was her intense and pure religiousness: "equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life." V.D. Nabokov was more conventional, and would take his children fairly often, especially in Lent, not to the vast St. Isaac's Cathedral nearby but to the very select Chruch of the Twelve Apostles in Pochtamtsky (Post Office) Lane, almost behind their house. Now this exerpt from the same BB is on p. 354 and takes place just when VN is beginning Glory..... Before he had written much of the new novel, Nabokov visited Prague. Arriving in the second week of May, he found his mother quite changed, calm and cheerful, revived in spirits by her newfound faith in Christian Science--"so I can only approve," he wrote back to Berlin. Within his work, he would always remain hostile to the conventionality of religion; speaking as a public figure outside the work, he kept his mother's case in mind and took care not to undermine other people's private consolations. This reticence is admirable on his part, and shows another vein of his sensitivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 This reticence is admirable on his part, and shows another vein of his sensitivity. Pontalba, What a beautiful and illuminating post! He seems more, and more, and more to be clearly recognizable as a son of both his parents. And proud they really would have been (or are). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 VN was really a thoughtful and kind man, look at the "Appliance" for Mademoiselle to enable her to hear...and the way he didn't drive it home that he knew she couldn't afford it, and then that even with it she could not hear properly. That whole episode was....hurtfully sweet. On the next page (117) he notes how She had spent all her life in feeling miserable; this misery was her native element; its fluctuations, its varying depth, alone gave her the impression of moving and living. Well it is true, some people are like that....always miserable, always searching.....for what? Even they don't know, and if they found "it", it would not be recognized as the solution. I love the way he refers to her "radiant deceit"...she truely loved him, and he knew it. Swan = Mademoiselle..... Gallant to the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofia Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I blame Pontalba with all this Nabokov talk. I went to the library to make some copies for work...and walked out with Lolita:roll: ok...continue with your regularly scheduled topic:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Yes, well, its a dirty job, but someone has to do it. I know all about that pontalba.....gotta watch her every moment of every day. Be careful Sophia, next thing you will be ordering all the Nabokov's from Amazon............. It's a slippery slope.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 The more I read the more I like VN (as a person). His sensitivity and progresive ideas. I love the descriptions of Colette. Her feet (long toes) reminds me of some other little nymph's feet he wrote about some time later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 The more I read the more I like VN (as a person). His sensitivity and progresive ideas. Dogmatix, You are so right! He is writing Speak Memory about the events of his life, but I find that I am reading it more about him as a person. (And of course the glories of those long toes, when one can recognize the allusions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 I went to the library to make some copies for work...and walked out with Lolita:roll: Well, of course! Congratulations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 The more I read the more I like VN (as a person). His sensitivity and progresive ideas. I love the descriptions of Colette. Her feet (long toes) reminds me of some other little nymph's feet he wrote about some time later. That is what is so neat about reading Nabokov, the assemblage of his writing is (to me) like a giant puzzle....this piece fits, this piece doesn't, or is backwards......to his own life, or his other novels. Puzzles within puzzles must learn to play chess......it'll make even more sense then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggle not Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 I will post a few observations of Nabokov, at the risk of pontalba never speaking to me again, from a few writings in his book: From his writing of mademoissele: "One is always at home in one's past, which partly explains those pathetic ladies' posthumous love for a remote and, to be perfectly frank, rather appalling country, which they never had really known and in which none of them had been very content". This strikes me as being somewhat a little snobbish on his part. On the following mornign, however, when she unlocked the wardrobe to take something out, my Swallowtail, with a mighty rustle, flew into her face, then made for the open window, and presently was but a golden fleck dippimg and dodging and soaring eastward......" I could not stop from feeling a sense of freedom for the butterfly.....fly, butterfly, fly away Reading of nabokov's being under ether while undergoing an appendectomy reminded me of how far we have come in medicine. I am now almost finished with chapter 6 and am enjoying the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Oh muggle! I am so glad you are enjoying it! And why would you ever think I wouldn't speak to you!? I have to laugh, Nabokov was a bit of a snob. That is part of what I find so delightful about him. But I've never found him to be mean spirited in his meanderings, and to me that is what pulls the weight. I agree with him, those poor old women were rather pathetic in their longing for a past which whilst they were there, they hated it! That has to be the height of something or other! Silliness or whatever! And I have to say I was rooting for the butterfly as well! That has always been one aspect that I didn't like.....but he says something in there....maybe I can find it right now ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~looking ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~I can't find it at the moment, but the essence is this. All the butterflies, and creatures of all sorts that are killed by insecticides and so forth are gone, dead for nothing but farmers spraying their crops or gardners spraying for the flowers.....at least when he caught and killed a butterfly it was preserved to be enjoyed and admired for its beauty, and studied for science--not sprayed and fallen on the ground and gone back to dust unenjoyed and unappreciated by anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 "One is always at home in one's past, which partly explains those pathetic ladies' posthumous love for a remote and, to be perfectly frank, rather appalling country, which they never had really known and in which none of them had been very content". This, I think was what I was talking about several posts back. Do I have this wrong? Which country is he talking about here? Maybe I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontalba Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 This, I think was what I was talking about several posts back. Do I have this wrong? Which country is he talking about here? Maybe I'm confused. Well the governesses are living in their native Switzerland at that point, if you go back a page, (115) you will see: She spoke as warmly of her life in Russia as if it were her own lost homeland. Which is blind hindsight as far as I can tell, as Mademoiselle hated Russia while she was there, but now that it is past she is looking at Russia through rose-colored glasses and proclaiming how wonderful it was. Nabokov did not consider Russia as rather appalling country But Mademoiselle did while she was there. Revisionist history (on their part). I think that is why Nabokov referrs to them as pathetic...which is not necessarily bad. One of pathetic's meanings is simply "arousing pity or sadness".....it is not always meant in a contempteous manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ahhh clearly I was confused..... it dosen't take much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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