True Crime

[runner]

i periodically read True Crime the most memorable being Fred and Rose and The Lost Boys which was about the Brady killings....horrific

[Lisa-Marie]

Fred and Rose is a good one to read. Quite horrific though.

 

I read the Paul Britton books a while ago. His reputation has since been tarnished and he's not borught in on cases by the police anymore.

[Cookie]

The official(?) Black Museum books (two I am aware of, maybe there were more) are big enough (and concise enough) to cover a lot of cases that aren't as well known as the massive news story cases

 

A woman from work borrowed me one of these but I'm finding it really hard going, bitty and a bit boring TBH. I might try dipping into the later cases and see if it's the same all the way through or not, hopefully I just need to get into it.

[EmilyPlacido]

Any True crime fans out there I love reading about real life crimes. No, I'm not crazy, I just enjoy learning what makes a sick mind tick. SOme of my favorites are by Ann Rule, such as Small Sacrifices

[frankie]

Here's a thread for discussion on true crime titles

[EmilyPlacido]

I'm new here and my previous post wasn't complete. Sorry about that. Anyway, my favorite True Crime books are, Ann Rule's Small Sacrifices and The Stranger Beside Me. Then there are John Douglas' books,like MindHunter. He delves into the minds of criminals, very fascinating. Other must reads are, Fatal Vision, NightStalker, House of Secrets, Jack the Ripper:the encyclopedia, and Deviant. What do you guys think?

[Chrissy]

I have merged the threads to keep things neat.

[frankie]

Helter Skelter is on the Finnish telly tonight, yikes! I must record it and watch it after I've read the book. Has anyone else seen this movie?

[StephenKingman]

Fred and Rose is a good one to read. Quite horrific though.

 

I read the Paul Britton books a while ago. His reputation has since been tarnished and he's not borught in on cases by the police anymore.

 

Fred and Rose has a sensationalist edge to it in that a few of the "facts" presented in it have been since debunked, such as the idea that only Fred and Rose were responsible for the killings- it is suspected that other individuals were also involved. A better book on that case is The Cromwell Street Murders by the Investigating Officer. He puts forwards the facts and timelines of the entire investigation from initial arrests to the trial. I have read many true crime books but the case of the Wests disturbs me the most, all the more shocking that Rosemary West sits convicted of an incredible 10 murders, including her own daughter and stepdaughter. Female serial killers are extremely rare and probably the most disturbing criminal of all.

[frankie]

I'm currently reading A Stranger in the Family by Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith. It's not about a serial killer but rather of an serial sodomist and rapist who, in the eyes of his family, lived a perfectly normal life.

 

I have to say that this book sucked me in right at the beginning. I thought I'd read a few pages of it before dozing off but I've kept going and going and now I'm at page 230 and can't go to sleep.

 

I like the way the book goes straight in to the crimes and the victims and doesn't begin by painting this picture of a kid who's gone wrong somewhere along the way. Also, there are autobiographical excerpts from the perpetraror himself along with the story. It makes a really compelling read, although I have to say the content is very disturbing otherwise. But that's true crime for you.

[beef]

I am a huge fan of true crime, something I seem to have picked up from my dad who for years read almost exclusively true crime. Some of my most enjoyed from the last year or so were

Homicide and The Corner both by David Simon (the writer of the tv show the wire)

The Devil's Dozen: How Cutting-Edge Forensics Took Down 12 Notorious Serial Killers by Katherine M. Ramsland

Witsec: Inside the Federal Witness Protection Program by Gerald Shur - this book is not so much about true crime but about the people who created and worked inside the witness protection program which has been instrumental in leading to so many convictions, I thought it was a very interesting tale to see how they started out as being the project no one wanted to work on to being a hugely important part of the criminal system.

Mafia Enforcer by Cecil Kirby - The story of Cecil who was the president of the Satans choice Motorbike club then left to become the top enforcer for the Mafia in Canada before turning witness against them.

No Angel: My Undercover Journey to the Heart of the Hells Angels by Jay Dobyns - Jay is an undercover agent for the ATF who over the course of years infiltrated the Hells Angels

[frankie]

I've read a few true crime related books this year, and I thought I'd post my reviews on here in case anyone's interested in the titles:

 

Green River, Running Red

by Ann Rule

 

Amazon: In her most personal and provocative book to date, the #1 bestselling master of true crime presents "her long-awaited definitive narrative of the brutal and senseless crimes that haunted the Seattle area for decades" (Publishers Weekly). This is the extraordinary true story of the most prolific serial killer the nation had ever seen -- a case involving more than forty-nine female victims, two decades of intense investigative work...and one unrelenting killer who not only attended Ann Rule's book signings but lived less than a mile away from her home.

 

Thoughts: My third Ann Rule, and the second best I’ve read by her (the best being Stranger Beside Me, about Ted Bundy). This is a book about the infamous Green River Killer who went about his business of raping and killing women for decades, seeming to be simply uncatchable by the police force. He had more victims than the feared Bundy himself, which probably weeed Bundy off. Bundy did in fact invite some detectives to visit him in jail so he could give insight to the Green River Killer’s inner workings, Bundy being a serial killer himself and knowing all what there is to it, as he believes.

 

I struggled sometimes, there were so many victims that I couldn’t keep tally of which one was who. Ann Rule also struggled with this but refused to start referring to the victims as ‘victim number 9’ or ‘victim number 16’, and she spent an evening memorizing all the names and faces and ages of the victims.

When I finished the book, I couldn’t believe that the killer had actually managed to maintain anonymous til the new millennium. It was a rather lucky incident that led him to be detected. And I couldn’t believe that it was only less than a decade ago that he was caught, and I don’t even remember hearing about it in 2004. Did it not reach the news in Finland? That can hardly be.

 

I also wikied the case after finishing the book and discovered that there had been some new developments in 2009. It’s possible that Ridgway’s victims keep on turning up in the future, him never being accurate of the body count =(

 

4/5

 

~

 

Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us

by Robert D. Hare

 

 

Amazon: Most people are both repelled and intrigued by the images of cold-blooded, conscienceless murderers that increasingly populate our movies, television programs, and newspaper headlines. With their flagrant criminal violation of society's rules, serial killers like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy are among the most dramatic examples of the psychopath. Individuals with this personality disorder are fully aware of the consequences of their actions and know the difference between right and wrong, yet they are terrifyingly self-centered, remorseless, and unable to care about the feelings of others. Perhaps most frightening, they often seem completely normal to unsuspecting targets--and they do not always ply their trade by killing. Presenting a compelling portrait of these dangerous men and women based on 25 years of distinguished scientific research, Dr. Robert D. Hare vividly describes a world of con artists, hustlers, rapists, and other predators who charm, lie, and manipulate their way through life. Are psychopaths mad, or simply bad? How can they be recognized? And how can we protect ourselves? This book provides solid information and surprising insights for anyone seeking to understand this devastating condition.

 

Thoughts: A great and fascinating reading, a book that brought back my mojo at least for as long as the book lasted. I've watched quite a few criminal TV shows (true crime and drama) and I've also read a bit on the subject, so at first it all seemed like going through what I pretty much already knew on the subject, but there were paragraphs of real life examples that I found interesting, and I got to read about people I've never heard of before, too.

 

Hare discusses what psychopats are like and whether they are crazy or just evil. That's not an easy thing to determine, because psychopaths can act rationally and disguise their abnormal behavior. They also know that the criminal actions they (might) take are wrong but that just doesn't matter to them, they do not conform to society's rules but instead they can have their own set of rules.

 

Hare is the person who has developed the so-called Psychopathy Checklist which is used to diagnose cases of psychopathy. (Personality "Aggressive narcissism": glibness/superficial charm : grandiose sense of self-worth : pathological lying : cunning/manipulative : lack of remorse or guilt : shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric : callousness; lack of empathy : failure to accept responsibility for own actions. Case history "Socially deviant lifestyle": need for stimulations/proneness to boredom : parasitic lifestyle : poor behavioral control : lack of realistic long-term goals : impulsivity : irresponsibility : juvenile delinquency : early behavior problems : revocation of conditional release. Traits not correlated with either factor: promiscuous sexual behavior: many short-term marital relationships : criminal versatility : acquired behavioral sociopathy/sociological conditioning (item 21: a newly identified trait I.e. a person relying on sociological strategies and tricks to deceive)). This list is of course discussed in the book.

 

The chapter I found the most interesting was the one where Hare discussed the language of psychopaths, and their hand gestures. (I admit I was so fascinated by some of the things in this book that I started taking notes). Lying is easy for psychopaths, but they still make mistakes, are inconsistent and contradictory in their stories. The reason why some people do not notice these things is because psychopaths can be very charming and persuasive, and the way they tell a story is sometimes so convincing that the actual mistakes they make are not noticed.

 

Psychopaths can also have problems with phrases and they can coin words in weird ways themselves. Here's Clifford Olson (a Canadian serial killer), talking with a journalist. It's not a straight quote because I have a Finnish copy. It's not for people who are easily disturbed, so consider yourself warned.

 

 

 

CO: "And then I had annual sex with her."

j: "You mean, once a year?"

CO: "No. Annual. From behind. "

j: "Okay... But she was dead, right?"

CO: "No, no. She was only unconscientious" [he must've meant unconscious].

CO: "I would have had antidotes [anecdotes] to fill five or six books, enough for a whole trilogy. "

CO had also decided that he would not be made an 'escape goat', no matter what kind of 'migrating facts' might come up.

 

 

Of course normal people alco make mistakes in their speech, but psychopaths make more of them, more frequently, and they are a lot worse mistakes.

 

Psychopaths are also unable to understand or grasp the meaning of emotional words. For example the word 'death' will likely have negative connotations for a normal people, but to a psychopath it's just a word, like 'paper', 'tree' etc. This has been proven in laboratory tests. Normal people as well as psychopaths were put to look at a screen where words would come up quickly, and then they had to click on a button as soon as they realised the word is an actual word in the dictionary. Normal people will very likely react to emonational words like 'death' more quickly than neutral words like 'paper. However, psychopath took as long with the emotional words as with the neutral words.

 

They had also attached the tested people on an EEG machine, which recorded the eletrical activities of their brain. The records showed that the brain of a psychopath reacted to emotional words in the same way as to the neutral words, whereas the brain wave of a normal person changed a lot more drastically with the emotional words.

 

Psychopaths talk in a weird manner, and they have a tendency to go off-topic. They often change the subject and they have a hard time with phrases and putting clauses in the right order. They don't answer questions made to them and it might sometimes seem they don't even under the questions.

 

There was a lot more to the book, but I think that was enough to give you a taste of what the book is like. I would recommend it to anyone who is interested in psychology and criminal psychology in particular!

 

4/5

 

~

 

I also borrowed a graphic novel from the library a few weeks ago, it was by Derf Backderf and it's about his going to the same school and class as Jeffrey Dahmer. It's called My friend Dahmer.

[koontzfanx]

I love all these kind of books, I have a few books that just give you snippets of info on various cases...

I've read Helter Skelter and enjoyed that!

 

I'm copying and paste-ing to my google docs, so I can search for more books...hope you all don't mind x

 

Anyone know any books on Albert Fish???

[frankie]

Anyone know any books on Albert Fish???

 

Unfortunately that name doesn't ring any bells for me.

 

I thought I'd copy+paste my current wishlist of books on this topic over here in case anyone's interested. Some of the books have been added to my lists because of recommendations based on this thread!

 

And the Sea Will Tell by Vincent Bugliosi (Smuttynose Island murder)

Bloodstain: The Vanishing of Peter Falconio

Broadmoor Revealed: Victorian Crime and the Lunatic Asylum by Mark Stevens

Bully by Jim Schutze

Cold Water Crossing by David Faxon (Smuttynose Island murder)

Cult Killers by Frank Moorhouse

Death in the City of Light: The True Story of the Serial Killer Who Terrorised Wartime Paris by David King

Depraved by Harold Schecter (Ed Gein)

The Devil in the White City by Erik Larson (a novel based on a true crime case, if I remember correctly)

For the Thrill of it: Leopold, Loeb and the Murder That Shocked Chicago by Simon Baatz

Hunting Humans by Elliott Leyton

Insanity: My Mad Life by Charles Bronson

The Last Victim by Jason Michael Moss

Let Me Take You Down: Inside the Mind of Mark David Chapman,the Man Who Killed John Lennon

The Locked Ward: The Memoir of a Psychiatric Orderly by Dennis O'Donnell

Lost Love: A True Story of Passion, Murder and Justice in the Old New York by George Cooper

The Magnificent Spilsbury and the Case of the Brides in the Bath by Jane Robins

The Men that God Forgot by Richard Butler

Mindhunter by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker

Mr Briggs' Hat: A Sensational Account of Britain's First Railway Murder by Kate Colquhoun

Murder at the Brown Palace: A True Seduction of Seduction & Betrayal by Dick Kreck

One of Your Own: The Life and Death of Myra Hindley by Carol Ann Lee

A Private Disgrace by Victoria Lincoln

A Psychologists Casebook of Crime: From Arson to Voyeurism, edited by Belinda Winder & Phil Banyard

Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts

The Shrine of Jeffrey Dahmer

Sins of the Brother: The Definitive Story of Ivan Milat and the Backpacker Murders by Mark Whittaker and Les Kennedy

A Stolen Life - A Memoir by Jaycee Dugard

Starvation Hights by Greg Olsen

Thunderstruck by Erik Larson

True Story by Michael Finkel

Understanding Criminal Behaviour - Psychological Approaches to Criminality by David W. Jones

What the Corpse Revealed by Hugh Miller

Witsec: Inside the Federal Witness Protection Program by Gerald Shur

[frankie]

Here's a tip for our Swedish and Finnish true crime book fans (unfortunately the book in question hasn't been translated into English as far as I know): Monster (Ihmispedot) by Micael Dahlén. Dahlén's met and talked to Charles Manson, Dorothea Puente, Issei Sagawa, Wayne Lo and Peter Lundin and this book is about them and why people are so interested in true crime (some to the point that they'll send fan mail to infamous murderers and sadists in prison). I borrowed the book from the library and it seems like an interesting read.

[julie]

Unfortunately that name doesn't ring any bells for me.

 

I thought I'd copy+paste my current wishlist of books on this topic over here in case anyone's interested. Some of the books have been added to my lists because of recommendations based on this thread!

 

And the Sea Will Tell by Vincent Bugliosi (Smuttynose Island murder)

Bloodstain: The Vanishing of Peter Falconio

Broadmoor Revealed: Victorian Crime and the Lunatic Asylum by Mark Stevens

Bully by Jim Schutze

Cold Water Crossing by David Faxon (Smuttynose Island murder)

Cult Killers by Frank Moorhouse

Death in the City of Light: The True Story of the Serial Killer Who Terrorised Wartime Paris by David King

Depraved by Harold Schecter (Ed Gein)

The Devil in the White City by Erik Larson (a novel based on a true crime case, if I remember correctly)

For the Thrill of it: Leopold, Loeb and the Murder That Shocked Chicago by Simon Baatz

Hunting Humans by Elliott Leyton

Insanity: My Mad Life by Charles Bronson

The Last Victim by Jason Michael Moss

Let Me Take You Down: Inside the Mind of Mark David Chapman,the Man Who Killed John Lennon

The Locked Ward: The Memoir of a Psychiatric Orderly by Dennis O'Donnell

Lost Love: A True Story of Passion, Murder and Justice in the Old New York by George Cooper

The Magnificent Spilsbury and the Case of the Brides in the Bath by Jane Robins

The Men that God Forgot by Richard Butler

Mindhunter by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker

Mr Briggs' Hat: A Sensational Account of Britain's First Railway Murder by Kate Colquhoun

Murder at the Brown Palace: A True Seduction of Seduction & Betrayal by Dick Kreck

One of Your Own: The Life and Death of Myra Hindley by Carol Ann Lee

A Private Disgrace by Victoria Lincoln

A Psychologists Casebook of Crime: From Arson to Voyeurism, edited by Belinda Winder & Phil Banyard

Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts

The Shrine of Jeffrey Dahmer

Sins of the Brother: The Definitive Story of Ivan Milat and the Backpacker Murders by Mark Whittaker and Les Kennedy

A Stolen Life - A Memoir by Jaycee Dugard

Starvation Hights by Greg Olsen

Thunderstruck by Erik Larson

True Story by Michael Finkel

Understanding Criminal Behaviour - Psychological Approaches to Criminality by David W. Jones

What the Corpse Revealed by Hugh Miller

Witsec: Inside the Federal Witness Protection Program by Gerald Shur

 

Hi Frankie

Just thought I'd comment on a few of these on your list since you asked .

 

The first book on your list ( And the Sea Will Tell ) is my all time favorite true crime book . It's not about the Smuttynose murders though . The Smuttynose Island is up off the coast of Maine, I believe (someplace in that general area ) .ColdWater Crossing is the one about Smuttynose (also a fiction book,which is based on this crime is one by Anita Shreve called The Weight of Water . Really good too !

 

The book you mentioned takes place on a small island called Palmyra which is way off the coast of Hawaii . A REALLY terrific book . Will be glad to discuss it with you after you read it. I've always had some questions about this story,so would like to ask your opinion on it afterwards .

 

Broadmoore , I read on my Kindle -- it was ok .. interesting,but not among my favorites, just interesting .

 

For the Thrill of it: Leopold, Loeb and the Murder That Shocked Chicago

This one is an interesting take on a totally senseless crime. Interesting to wonder what the heck these guys were thinking . I guess they thought they were so smart they could get away with murder . See what you think ?

 

 

I have Starvation Heights,but yet to read it .

 

 

Another of my all time favorites is called The Dreams of Ada, which is pretty difficult to find . The same case was also touched on by the John Grisham true crime book he wrote a couple years ago called An Innocent Man .

 

Mindhunter is interesting to see how the "bad guys" think and tick . A little dry ,but not bad.

 

If you are into the forensics end of things, try to locate Dead Men Do Tell Tales . Written by a coroner ,pretty graphic in spots in case that type stuff getss to you. It pretty much explains every way this man ever saw as far as what one person will do to another to kill them . Some chapters aren't as bad as others,but I could sit and eat a ham sandwich while reading it and it didn't gross me out. There's something about READING about these things that SEEING them (such as on tv shows or movies). I think my brain filters it our for me when reading it,but if you SEE it ,it's much more disturbing. There are some videos on youtube that have forensics (from true crimes) .Some of the stuff isn't too bad,but usually the stomach contents is what makes me ill. GROSS .

 

Another I'd HIGHLY recommend is Strange Piece of Paradise . T E R R I F I C story . 2 college girls decide to bike across America ,camping out along the way . They pitch their tent one night in a small rest stop . Not to give anything away from the impact of the story,so I'll just say that a REALLY horrid event happens that night .One girl spends her life trying to have her questions answered about this event that forever changed her .

 

 

Alright, I'll stop yapping. I could go on for hours about true crime books.

[frankie]

The first book on your list ( And the Sea Will Tell ) is my all time favorite true crime book . It's not about the Smuttynose murders though .

 

Ah yes, I believe we talked about the book and you said it was another great book by Bugliosi? But for some reason I got my notes mixed and wrote down the book as having something to do with the Smuttynose murders. Thanks for putting me straight!

 

For the Thrill of it: Leopold, Loeb and the Murder That Shocked Chicago

This one is an interesting take on a totally senseless crime. Interesting to wonder what the heck these guys were thinking . I guess they thought they were so smart they could get away with murder . See what you think ?

 

I don't even know/remember (?) what the Leopold and Loeb case is about, so it'll be interesting to read the book without having any preconceptions about it. I could google the case, of course, but I think it might be more interesting to get into it just as it is.

 

Another of my all time favorites is called The Dreams of Ada, which is pretty difficult to find . The same case was also touched on by the John Grisham true crime book he wrote a couple years ago called An Innocent Man .

 

I'm going to add these to my wishlist, thanks Julie!

 

If you are into the forensics end of things, try to locate Dead Men Do Tell Tales . Written by a coroner ,pretty graphic in spots in case that type stuff getss to you. It pretty much explains every way this man ever saw as far as what one person will do to another to kill them . Some chapters aren't as bad as others,but I could sit and eat a ham sandwich while reading it and it didn't gross me out. There's something about READING about these things that SEEING them (such as on tv shows or movies). I think my brain filters it our for me when reading it,but if you SEE it ,it's much more disturbing. There are some videos on youtube that have forensics (from true crimes) .Some of the stuff isn't too bad,but usually the stomach contents is what makes me ill. GROSS .

 

This is definitely going to my wishlist, thanks very much! I totally get what you mean about reading about vs seeing the cases. It's easier for the mind if there are no photos or video clips. I do watch true crime documents as well, but if I see any of the dead bodies I tend to flinch.

 

This is totally off-topic, but you might be interested in this book: Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach. Roach writes about all the possible things that can happen to bodies after people have passed on. Some are buried, some cremated, but then there are the more unusual types of exits: for example, some bodies are put to the test as dummies in different vehicles, and they are given the crash test. Scientists can use the info on the impact of the corpses to, for example, determine how to make better air bags and such and such. There are stories in there one cannot fathom. And it's written very wittily: I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but there were times when I was reading this book that I was laughing my ass off. If you read the book, you'll understand why!

 

Another I'd HIGHLY recommend is Strange Piece of Paradise . T E R R I F I C story . 2 college girls decide to bike across America ,camping out along the way . They pitch their tent one night in a small rest stop . Not to give anything away from the impact of the story,so I'll just say that a REALLY horrid event happens that night .One girl spends her life trying to have her questions answered about this event that forever changed her .

 

This is also definitely going on my wishlist!

 

Oh man, I only posted my wishlist so that people who are looking for interesting titles could go through it and perhaps find something interesting, and now I'm going to have to add five more books to my own list

[Kylie]

Another I'd HIGHLY recommend is Strange Piece of Paradise . T E R R I F I C story . 2 college girls decide to bike across America ,camping out along the way . They pitch their tent one night in a small rest stop . Not to give anything away from the impact of the story,so I'll just say that a REALLY horrid event happens that night .One girl spends her life trying to have her questions answered about this event that forever changed her .

 

Oh dear! I was in planning with my ex to cycle across Australia. I had better read this in case I ever get to do it. Although I'd already heard some stories and have learnt that any camping should be done out of sight of the main road, because truckies might stop if they see a campsite. I was also planning to be well-armed.

[julie]

Hi Frankie

Easy enough to get the Bugliosi book mixed up with Smuttynose,since they were both on really small islands with very few people on them . Another true crime book was written about a murder that took place on Galapagos Island ..way back ...ummm..Geez, I wish I could remember how long ago ? I found the book about 20 years ago at a library in our area that had REALLY old books. I doubt they'd even still have a copy,but I remember it being a really interesting case . I like the ones on the islands with only a few people present. Kinda narrows down the "Whodunnit" a little bit, but it makes it better,because there could possibly be a number of suspects.Anyone who was ON the island would have probably heard or seen something .I think the Galapagos one was called The Galapagos Affair ?? not sure ,and it may have been 1940's ? Guessing .

 

 

I won't give anything away about Leopold and Loeb . Don't want to spoil it for you .

 

 

The Grisham book is mainly about another murder that occurrs in the general area that the Ada one does. I read the Ada one many years ago ,and have always wondered about the people involved and how they are all doing today,so it was a surprise to see it mentioned again in the Grisham book. Still as infuriating as ever,let's say. Also don't wanna give anything away on these ..

 

Thanks for mentioning STIFF . I've heard of it and seen it on Amazon. It had almost 5 stars I think,so it must be a good one . I'll have to check it out .

 

The one about the girls biking across country was a mixture of memoir and true crime,but the true crime is the main theme throughout the book. It's quite a meaty book with lots of information,drawn out over a long time . I really liked it a lot. Kinda gives you a different slant on a true crime . It's hard to describe some of these books without giving anything away .

 

 

Kylie

I'm not sure how safe your country is compared to ours ,so wouldn't know how it'd be to travel cross country over there . I've seen videos of people doing that and it seems to have a lot more open space between towns and even houses . I've never traveled clear across our country,but I'd guess we don't have any majorly huge gaps between at least a house or a small village anyplace in the country. I'm sure there are exceptions, like in the desert areas, or possibly up in the Dakotas and such places. I'd think there'd be lots of space in those .Our state is one of the most densely populated .It doesn't seem like it from where I live .We are surrounded by farmland any way you leave town . I think we have lots of big cities, lots of college towns ,and even in rural areas, you'd probably run into a village or at least a farmhouse every few miles .

This crime with the girls biking happened back in the 70's I believe ,so crime wasn't quite as rampant as it is now ,and they were in a very small place that seemed like it wouldn't have had much crime .This just happened to be a fluke ,and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unbelieveable what happened just out of nowhere like that .

We used to camp in our younger days. I heard of a crime that happened to a family who were camping--someplace out west .They were all asleep in the tent and a child-molester was watching them from the woods. When they all fell asleep, he came behind the tent and cut a hole in it,reached in and grabbed the little girl and pulled her out and took her. She was probably sound asleep and didnt realize what happened to her till too late to scream. I think they finally caught the guy but not sure if they ever found the girl's body. I can't remember.

I'd highly suggest bringing a gun .I guess you just never know what might happen nowadays .

 

**On an off topic comment about your country : I've been watching the videos of your Big Brother show over there. I just LOVE the people on that show .There seems to be such a different mindset from people over here . Not sure how to explain it,but the people there seem to have a lot more heart and lots more caring for each other and kindness . Our big Brother show isn't very nice at all. Seems to bring out the worst in everyone ,but yours brings out a wonderful side .If everyone over there is that kind, then it'd be a wonderful place to live .

[frankie]

I like the ones on the islands with only a few people present. Kinda narrows down the "Whodunnit" a little bit, but it makes it better,because there could possibly be a number of suspects.Anyone who was ON the island would have probably heard or seen something

 

That's interesting. It'll read like a detective novel, only it's real this time. I guess I've never read a true crime book where it wasn't obvious from the get-go who is the person behind it all. And I think the most books I've read are about really famous cases where it's kinda 'general knowledge', international should-be-known stuff.

 

The Grisham book is mainly about another murder that occurrs in the general area that the Ada one does. I read the Ada one many years ago ,and have always wondered about the people involved and how they are all doing today,so it was a surprise to see it mentioned again in the Grisham book. Still as infuriating as ever,let's say. Also don't wanna give anything away on these ..

 

This reminds me... it was some years ago when I watched a movie called Bully. It's an American case, maybe you've heard about it. There's this really viscious, dominant guy amongst a group of friends, and the friends get tired of him bullying them and having everything his own way, so they decide to kill him. They got caught.

 

Anyhow, I don't remember why I got to googling the story (maybe I was looking for the book to buy), but somehow I ended up on some website where there were all these famous murder cases and you could actually look at the profiles of the murderers and read what they'd done, and you could also see their current status: if they are still in jail, if they've been released etc. Interesting stuff.

 

Thanks for mentioning STIFF . I've heard of it and seen it on Amazon. It had almost 5 stars I think,so it must be a good one . I'll have to check it out .

 

When I was looking for the link for you, I took a look at the ratings and eventhough I really enjoyed the book, I was (pleasantly) surprised how many people have given it five stars. A definite majority! I would heartily recommend the book

 

The one about the girls biking across country was a mixture of memoir and true crime,but the true crime is the main theme throughout the book. It's quite a meaty book with lots of information,drawn out over a long time . I really liked it a lot. Kinda gives you a different slant on a true crime . It's hard to describe some of these books without giving anything away .

 

I'm really keen on this, maybe because we had a case in Finland back in the 50s-60s or so, where two girls went on a biking trip with a tent, and they were brutally murdered by some person. The book you are referring to reminds me of that. The case was never solved, unfortunately. We also had a famous case of someone brutally murdering three people (the fourth person survived, by miracle), who were camping with a tent at lake Bodom (hence the name for the Finnish metal band, Children of Bodom), the murderer stabbed them through the tent. A really brutal case. It put me off sleeping in a tent for years after I read the book!

[julie]

Frankie

As for the comment on the first book ( Sea Will Tell) .... you'll know from the beginning who the bad and good are ,although there are others who are on the island during part of the time the main characters are all togther . Those people are in no way involved ,so I won't be giving anything away by telling you that. tThey would more or less be witnesses aqs to how everyone got along while they spent time on the island. None of them stayed on it for a great length of time. It would be pretty hard to stay there as a permanent residence, there being such a really long distance to the closest island with food, medical suppiles, etc.

My question for you will be based a little more on the intricate details of the case .I'll wait and ask the rest after you have read it .

 

The Bully story you mentioned, I'm not real sure if this pertains to the case you were mentioning,but I know a few years back there was a true crime book called Bully. I didn't read it ,so not sure if it may be the case you are talking about .

There WAS another case of an ADULT bully ,who everyone in the area was afraid of . He pretty much did whatever he wanted,breaking laws many times but even the police seemed afraid to try to arrest him. If they attempted to even give him a ticket,they usually had severe retribution from this guy or one of his family members. It's called In Broad Daylight .Takes place I'm thinking ,maybe in Oklahoma ...Missouri.... Geez, been too long ago . I know it was out west someplace,middle of the country .

 

I have heard of the Bodom murders. I have watched some videos on youtube about them,so I know the basics of the story .I don't think I ever found a book about them,though . I can definitely understand ,after hearing about cases like that,then you find yourself in a tent at night, you DO think about how unsafe you could possibly be . There's no door or lock of any type,so if anyone wanted in,they could get in with no trouble. We've never camped anyplace other than state parks ,so there's a little sense of security there. The park rangers drive through every so often and check on things. During the day,they are always on the gate,but not at night . It always seemed pretty safe in a place like that,though. We've actually seen people being kicked out of the place a few times. Once was for drinking and being too loud and bothersome. The other was for campers who were going into the woods to cut down tress to use for firewood,strictly forbidden to do that in a state park,so they were also booted out .

 

 

I'm not sure if any of these websites are what you were mentioning. They are set up a lot like this,and discuss current plus cold cases,so they have some interesting info . I havent been into them much,but once in awhile. I'll go in a nd read up a bit on certain crimes that I want more info on .

 

http://www.crimeshots.com/forums/index.php

 

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/home.php

 

http://www.justicequest.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=180

[Amanda20102]

At the moment I am reading John Wayne Gacy (want to know about him here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy read this)

[Kylie]

Kylie

I'm not sure how safe your country is compared to ours ,so wouldn't know how it'd be to travel cross country over there . I've seen videos of people doing that and it seems to have a lot more open space between towns and even houses .

 

Australia is pretty empty compared to America. There would be cycling sections where it would be a couple of days' ride just between petrol stations, and no houses anywhere along the way for maybe a week or two (that is, of course, riding a bike at maybe 100 km per day). There would be fairly regular road trains and caravans though.

 

A gun would be out of the question because we have very strict gun laws here (as in, we're not allowed to have them!) But I'd definitely take a couple of alternatives.

 

You and Frankie have just about scared the bejesus out of me with your stories. I'm not sure I would ever go now, even if I had the opportunity again!

 

**On an off topic comment about your country : I've been watching the videos of your Big Brother show over there. I just LOVE the people on that show .There seems to be such a different mindset from people over here . Not sure how to explain it,but the people there seem to have a lot more heart and lots more caring for each other and kindness . Our big Brother show isn't very nice at all. Seems to bring out the worst in everyone ,but yours brings out a wonderful side .If everyone over there is that kind, then it'd be a wonderful place to live .

 

We have a reputation for being nice and laidback, but I don't really see it myself (I guess we just put on a friendly face for the tourists!) I don't watch Big Brother, but having seen the types of people on it in the past, I'm surprised you've received such a good impression of us!

[SteveScaffardi]

I have read quite a few True Crime novels, mainly about the mafia. Two of my favourite books are Donnie Brasco and a book called Double Cross. Donnie Brasco is based on FBI agent Joe Pistone who spent 6/7 years undercover in the mafia back in the 70s/80s. Really interesting read (they made a film about his life starring Johnny Depp and Al Pacino).

 

Double Cross is great if you love conspiracy theories, as it is written by the brother of Chicago gangster Sam Giancana. According to the book, it details the mobs involvement in the JFK assassination, Marylin Monroe's death, and Frank Sinatra's relationship with the mafia.

 

Other books I find quite interesting are books about people who get arrested (mainly for drug smuggling) in foreign countries and have to spend some HARD prison time abroad. The Damage Done about a Thai prison is a really good read.

[bibliotaph58]

Would really like to hear from real true crime fans. I probably own the majority of American t/c books would love to hear from Brits especially books on Fred and Rose West, Moors Murders, Yorkshire Ripper, JR Christie, etc.