A Question for NON Poetry Lovers

[Jay Landsman]

It's nice to have a civilised and intelligent debate over a subject after witnessing some of the brutal arguments that I've seen on internet forums in the past; and who knows - maybe I'll come to love poetry in the future, and will laugh at myself when looking back through the thread

[BookJumper]

I see no point in brutally arguing anything like Henry Higgins quoting Macbeth, I have 'the milk of human kindness, by the quart in every vein'. I too have seen vicious arguments on forums (thank goodness, not on this one; that's why I'm still here), and have no desire whatsoever to instigate their like.

 

I am actually genuinely interested in other people's point of view, in this instance re: disliking poetry, as it is an attitude that mystifies me.

 

As for your prophecy... I'd count myself happy and honoured were it to come true.

[Jay Landsman]

I couldn't say that I dislike poetry; it's more of an indifference towards it. I don't really think that it's possible to have a strong dislike towards poetry unless you're an extremely irrational person, as I don't think that it's the type of thing that can bring up such a feeling.

 

I think that people dislike poetry due to what they perceive as a pretentious audience - rather than the actual works themselves. You will obviously encounter a few snobs who love poetry, but you encounter morons in every facet of life with every possible interest.

 

Stereotyping is one of the most common flaws found in people, and it's something that all of us have probably at least once in our lives.

[Anika]

 

As for what you should be reading, I'd need a bit more info to get the cogs working on that. I find that the themes that interest me in prose interest me in poetry, so if you could give me an idea of your favourite classic novels and ideas you like to read about, I'll gladly put my expertise at your service .

 

.

 

 

My favorite book is Whuthering Heights. I've recently read some of Emily's poems, but they seemed to be all about death. A bit depressing. I'm sure all of her poetry doesn't focus primarily on this theme--(it was a slim volume featuring poems by all the Brontes) but I only had a few to go by in this particular book.

 

I've been reading about the 'pathetic fallacy' lately, and this interests me. One of the reasons I enjoyed Whuthering Heights so much is because of the descriptions of the violence of nature mirroring the passions (both positive and negative) of the characters.

 

Books I like reading are about:

 

The Victorian era, Mythology, King Arthur, the Supernatural, & Mysteries.

Drawing a blank, or I'd list more..... (I'll get to you on this.)

 

 

 

Of Keats, Byron or Shelley, which do you prefer?

[martymcfly3004]

Can't see how someone could say they don't like poetry. It reminds me when people say they don't like films or music or art. There is always going to be a poet or a particular poem for everyone just as there is going to be a peice of music or a film for everyone.

[Anika]

Very true! I think you've got to have an open mind and give things a chance or you could really be missing out.

[BookJumper]

Of Keats, Byron or Shelley, which do you prefer?

I like all of them for different reasons, however the one which resonates most personally is Byron - I feel a special kinship with his heightened language, powerful rhymes and grand sweeping themes that isn't matched by the more intellectual (i.e. less immediate and instinctual) admiration I have for the other two. My very favourite by him is The Lament of Tasso... and I even hate (Torquato) Tasso, namely the dreariest epic poet Italy ever produced!

 

I am thinking about what poetry to recommend to you, by the way when and if you come up with other preferred thematic elements, hit me (metaphorically) and I'll throw them into the brainstorm.

[Anika]

I am thinking about what poetry to recommend to you, by the way when and if you come up with other preferred thematic elements, hit me (metaphorically) and I'll throw them into the brainstorm.

 

Not sure about specific thematic elements, or don't have any preferrences as such. But to help you narrow the field, I suppose pastoral, nature, loneliness, spiritual growth, love or heroic endeavor would be the themes that come to mind, and hope that's what you mean. Like I said, I'm a bit clueless about poetry, so as long as the language doesn't require excessive translation/study to get the meaning of the work (such as Old English, Burns, etc.) I'm willing to give it a try. Since I'm reading other books on the Romantic & Victorian eras, some poets from these times would be a good start for me, I think.

[BookJumper]

pastoral, nature, loneliness, spiritual growth, love or heroic endeavor would be the themes that come to mind, and hope that's what you mean.

You're obviously not clueless, as that is indeed what I mean OH is asleep now so I can't get at my bookcase; when he rises and shines I'll heft down my good old Romanticism: An Anthology (an enormous Best Of of the good and greats, and one of the few uncarriable textbooks I couldn't bear to part from), have a search in that and report my findings .

[Ben]

Hmm, it's a tricky one for me really, as I wouldn't say that I dislike poetry, as such, in general, as I do like certain poems (I don't have any examples, unhelpfully, it's more of a case of looking at a poem as it comes and seeing if I like it..). Anyway, I enjoy poems with lots of description in, poems that paint a clear picture of what is happening throughout. I like poems that concentrate around poetic language and such, but other than that I do not really have any other thoughts about it at present. I think its a more of a case of I haven't been introduced to much poetry, so haven't really had the chance to appreciate it yet. As of themes that really doesn't matter at the moment, but love most probably would be an interest..

[BookJumper]

pastoral, nature, loneliness, spiritual growth, love or heroic endeavor would be the themes that come to mind

 

A couple of sprained wrists later (not your fault, I blame the stingy publishers who wouldn't divide an 1470 page book into 2+ volumes), may I suggest the following, based on their relevance to your stated preferences as well as their relative shortness (Shelley's The Mask of Anarchy is significantly longer than the others, however it is not a full-on dramatic poem like his Prometheus Unbound - which is also reccommended but long - and I just had to include it, as it is simply awesome):

 

Wordsworth, Daffodils (nature)

Wordsworth, Lines Written in Early Spring (nature)

Wordsworth, The Tables Turned (nature/growth)

Wordsworth, Resolution and Independence (nature/growth)

Wordsworth, I Grieved for Buonaparte (heroic)

Wordsworth, To Toussaint L'Ouverture (heroic)

Coleridge, The Nightingale (nature/growth)

Byron, When We Two Parted (love - unhappy)

Byron, Prometheus (heroic)

Shelley, Hymn to Intellectual Beauty (growth)

Shelley, Lift Not the Painted Veil (growth)

Shelley, The Mask of Anarchy (heroic)

 

Ben, I'm on your case .

[BlackGemRoach]

I studied a lot of poetry through school and college and university (and i mean a lot!!) so i think i have managed to grasp an appreciation for it - sort of... The thing is i think any old illiterate could mash together a verse of their favourite words about their favourite subject yet it takes, in general, some fairly decent skill to peice together a good novel. I mean a lot of poetry doesn't rhyme, make sense or even remotely convey any real meaning - i have often sat down to disect a poem for some assignment or other and thought that my dog had a better grasp of the english language than the poet in question. It's not that i don't understand poems i just feel poems are for writers that couldn't quite put down what they really wanted to say and therefore mashed together a few lines vaguely based around their subject of concern and then called it art...

 

Maybe i'm being a little harsh but i have never come across a poem that has moved me in the way a good book does.

 

I am willing to be converted - if someone is up for the challenge.

[BookJumper]

I just feel poems are for writers that couldn't quite put down what they really wanted to say and therefore mashed together a few lines vaguely based around their subject of concern and then called it art

You are 100%, utterly and completely right - mashing vague lines together and calling the result art is not art, it is deceit and imposture. May I ask what poetasters you've been exposed to before this fateful moment? For, you've guessed it: down I kneel to pick up your challenging gauntlet.

[BlackGemRoach]

Well, Emily Dickinson was the most recent one and i admire her almost feminist approach but still even with the lesbian rumours etc etc i just wasn't interested. The poet herself was much more intriguing than her 'art'.

 

I'm not a sceptic, I'm just a critic and i have every faith you might be able to find me something

[BookJumper]

I'm not a sceptic, I'm just a critic and i have every faith you might be able to find me something

Oh good a handful of favourite novel titles and pet themes would be of assistance to me in this process.

[BlackGemRoach]

Okay i love anything... i think weird would be a good word to use. Things that are a bit fantastical, other-worldly, supernatural but that could still be based in reality - still moderately believable. Bit of a guilty pleasure would be The host by Stephanie Meyer ofcourse. R.A Salvatore. Darren shan (very childish and very guilty pleasure). Malorie Blackmans noughts and crosses collection.

 

In complete contrast to that i like biographies/life stories but of rock stars etc so again not completely set in reality...

 

i think the point is i like to escape. I like to have my thoughts provoked. I like to be grasped by a good, well a good story, hence i find poetry difficult to like i guess...

 

all the best my lovely:blush:

[Ben]

Ben, I'm on your case .

 

Alright. Surprisingly enough I just wrote a poem in the last few hours that I think is one of my best. (I don't generally write poems so I doubt it is that good, really..)

[Lukeozade100]

I don't know if my tuppence of thought counts here so much because I do love some poetry, really, some of it is amazing, it's just that so very very little of it is. At least in my view.

 

I know how to read poetry, I know how to write it, I know published poets (albeit ones who have never been paid for this honour), I know someone who reads poetry as if it might dissapear tommorow, and I know that in my eyes 9/10 poems I read will elicit no emotional response from me, not even a negative one.

 

It almost seems to me that the saying 'Everyone has a novel in them' goes for poetry, everyone probably does have a poem inside them, but unlike a novel even the people who are considered our greatest poets only ever tend to have one poem that i'll like. I have only ever bought two poetry books in my adult life. One called Crush by Richard Siken is wonderful, I would say for anyone who loves to read but has never got poetry, this might be your way in, at the very least it was my way in. And the other is Called A Martian Sends A Postcard home by a poet whos name escapes me, but was apparently very good, and the first poem is fairly good, and the rest, well what did I say... Everyone has ONE poem in them...

[BookJumper]

Everyone has ONE poem in them

I both agree and disagree with what you're saying. Me and my sister agreed on a similar rule for music at one time, which explained why even the artists we liked the least always seemed to produce one song we liked (it explains why, amongst Beatles and Stones, Avril Lavigne's My Happy Ending is in my music folder, f'rinstance).

 

However, there are The Beatles and Stones of poetry - not everyone has just one good poem in them. Clearly, no one is ever going to agree as to who had the most good poems in them (just as no one will ever agree upon whether the Stones were better than The Beatles, or in fact The Who were superior to both, etc. etc. etc.), so my inkling is that you just haven't encountered a poet armed with more than one poem able to move you yet... but they exist; of this, I am certain.

[Vanwa]

@ BlackGemRoach:

 

I may well be flayed alive for saying this, but here is my delayed response. If you like those kinds of romantic/tragic/slightly spooky novels, I would suggest Poe's Annabel Lee.

 

It is first and foremost a short story written in the form of poetry. The passion and sensuality of the love affair it describes combined with the tragedy of a love forbidden and lost makes it spine-tinglingly delicious.

 

@ Lukeozade:

 

What kind of subjects do those one-off poems tackle? Is there a particular approach in poetry that elicits an emotional response? I'm wondering if those poems you do enjoy are of a more classic nature, or perhaps more modern, say Byron vs Auden, that kind of thing. And of course your tuppence counts, every voice matters

 

@ BookJumper:

 

*Raises eyebrow* Avril Lavigne? People don't often surprise me, but you have. There is nothing wrong with her of course, but I didn't suspect she might be your cup of tea. Are there any other dark secrets in your music folder we should be aware of?

[BookJumper]

@ Vanwa - that's precisely the point, she's not my cup of tea at all (my musical tastes and expertise were born in the rockin' mid-fifties and retired around the hairy mid eighties), yet that one song speaks to me, in the same way that I find Goethe tedious yet a single poem by him I studied in school (I was going to post it but I can't find it, it was about a soldier's grave, I think the soldier might have been a pilot) affected me deeply.

 

My connected point was that while we all have our Goethe-Lavignes, i.e. poets who aren't our cup of tea minus a single piece or two, we all have our Beatles-Byrons, i.e. poets who'll speak to us every single line of the way .

 

Ps. my other one-off dark secrets include four songs by Blink 182, seven by Eminem, Boyzone's hideous cover of Father and Son and Ballad of Lemmiwinks off South Park... .

Edited December 19, 2009 by BookJumper

[Univerze]

I really don't like poetry, apart from the odd poem here and there. The one I like best has got to be the Raven, by Poe. Why? Because that one most resembles a story, an actual story with a clear storyline. For my tastes, most poems are too abstract, or too banal. It's so abstract you have to go through a lot of trouble to figure out what the poets meaning is (even if that's sometimes just up to the reader), which takes away fun of reading it, OR you get poems about say, a little goat or bird or whatever. Not my cup of tea. Mind you, I have this big book on my bookshelf with stories and poems by Poe, so I might gives those poems a read, you never know if you don't try it right?

But to me, poems just bore me, or they give me this feeling one of you guys mentioned, "they're trying too hard".

[Ben]

Ben, I'm on your case .

 

Bet you've forgotten about me amongst the festive season. Still looking to find poems and poets that I'll grow to know and love. When you get chance of course, my friend.

[BookJumper]

For my tastes, most poems are too abstract, or too banal. It's so abstract you have to go through a lot of trouble to figure out what the poets meaning is (even if that's sometimes just up to the reader), which takes away fun of reading it

IMHO, good poetry - like all good literature - is not really a matter of interpretation. Art is communication; if the message is unclear, art has failed in its purpose. I love verbiage and layers of meaning because I love the fun that can be had with the English language, however I believe the best poems are those that can be understood on an instinctual level as well as a deeper one; that's why I wasn't blown away by T.S. Eliot's The Wasteland, which is utterly incomprehensible without footnotes.

 

I, too, like poems that tell stories; if you exit the last century through the back door, finding ones that fit this requirement shouldn't be hard. All poems used to tell stories, in fact the relatively recent lack of storytelling is behind my not being fond of modern and contemporary verse. If you want stories, you could try Milton's Paradise Lost, Byron's Manfred, or some good old Homer.

 

Bet you've forgotten about me amongst the festive season. Still looking to find poems and poets that I'll grow to know and love. When you get chance of course, my friend.

You are mistaken I have not forgotten you; the cogs are turning, if slurred by the Mulled Wine of Baby Jesus (I swear that's what the - German - label said)!

[sirinrob]

Picking up on the 'Art is communication' point, imvho the reader of literature (in its widest sense), does interpret what is presented, since how a character, word, concept etc is presented by the author, the reader is going to clothe that with the memory of his own experiences, which are by definition unique. The message is important, but from the reader's point of view is going to be coloured as I have indicated.