Guest ii Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Okay, so given the Classics Circle hasn't gotten off to as good a start as we would have wanted (yes, I do take some blame), and that my favourites always lose in the voting, I thought I'd ask for your thoughts. Do you have any wishes for the July vote? The poll will go up on 14th, so it's short notice, I know. And for that I apologise. But, is there a style, nationality, period you'd like to read from? Anything? Feel free to tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahsilet Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I was thinking maybe "classics" by African American women. This is the line-up I would use for the poll: Harriet Jacobs's Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl, 1861 Zora Neale Hurston's Their Eyes Were Watching God, 1937 Ann Petry's The Street, 1946 Alice Walker's The Color Purple, 1982 Toni Morrison's Beloved, 1987 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I have Beloved on my TBR shelf. I be keen on this one, if I'm aloud to join in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I have read both Alice Walker's 'The Color Purple', and Toni Morrison's 'Beloved', they are both brilliant reads, with so much discussion points. I've not read the others Ashilet, but I think the idea for African American Women writers is a good one. A different kind of classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I'd like to remind you that while those are all interesting books, I'm sure, this is the Classics Circle. So books from the 80's are way too new. A good rule-of-thumb we've used is using WWII as the dividing line. Anything after that is for the Main Circle. Other than that, female writers is a very good suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahsilet Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 i'd like to remind you that while those are all interesting books, i'm sure, this is the classics circle. So books from the 80's are way too new. a good rule-of-thumb we've used is using wwii as the dividing line. Anything after that is for the main circle. other than that, female writers is a very good suggestion! what???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Would you care to elaborate a bit, Ashilet? Right now I don't know what's the problem and cannot answer you, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahsilet Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I am totally shocked that a timeline is used to determine what a "classic" is on this forum. It has been accepted in the literary world that The Color Purple, The Street, and Beloved are American "classics." To say that a timeline strips those books of that label on this forum because they weren't wrote before World War II is really crazy. I picked those books for a reason and not just something that popped off the top of my head. If you look at the line-up of the reading circle has had, there is no diversity with the exception of Kazuo Ishiguro. None of the authors are female or of African decent. I went with with African American women for that purpose. Plus, I tried to make a connection between those books. I chose Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl because this book was clearly before it's time. "An African American female slave publishing a book of true slave events, what???" It's best to read the life of an actual slave rather than by Harriet Beecher Stowe or Mark Twain, two white upper class people who have no clue about the slave life. Then Their Eyes Were Watching God and The Street because they are two wonderful Harlem Renaissance masterpieces by females. Went with Alice Walker because she "re-discovered" Hurston and put her name back out there. Lastly, Toni Morrison because she was the first African American female to receive and Noble Prize for her amazing "classic" novel, Beloved. This line-up brings "classics" to people on this forum that would have never looked twice at these books. I am so tired of seeing the same'ol "classics" listed on this forum when there are wonderful novels out their being looked over. So forget a time limit and let the forum speak on this. If they don't like my idea, then erase it. But saying a certain time period should determine such a thing is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nici Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 We have to draw line somewhere as to what is or isn't classed as a classic. What some people class as a classic may be different to what others class as a classic. Therefore pre WW2 makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahsilet Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 We have to draw line somewhere as to what is or isn't classed as a classic. What some people class as a classic may be different to what others class as a classic. Therefore pre WW2 makes perfect sense. No it does not. Their are many novels out there post-World War II that have influenced literature greatly. A book forum should not determine that. A line should not be drawn anywhere, because then you have stripped many books of this "classic" label. Esepcially minority writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) I never said a simple thing as date defines a classic. But for the purposes of the reading circles being different, and for the versatility of the reading options put up for vote and maybe eventually getting discussed, the two circles were given separate areas of literature. One of the natural points of difference was time. There is a separate discussions on this forum on what people see as the definitions of a classic. One of those definitions is, by general opinion, the style of writing. The WWII is an artificial divide, yet most handy as it gives a reference point for the sometimes very shady change in literary style. If you look at the general literary styles of the 50's and 60's, and compare that with the early 20th century, or indeed the 19th century, the style is very different. Modernism changed the literature as much as everything else. This divide in the style was one of our guiding thoughts when we set up the two separate circles. Another one was the desires of many members here to read the 'classic' classics, such as Hugo, Dickens, Tolstoy, Wharton, Voltaire, Eliot and others. And as we're more than aware that everyones classics TBR list is very different, we're constantly asking for nominations and suggestions. As has been expressed in the Reading Circle Guidelines, the Classic Circle guidelines and in several posts made by the Reading Circle Group members. I'd be more than happy to put Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl and Their Eyes Were Watching God up for the voting. They seem truly magnificent books and ones everyone would benefit from. The thing is, however, that some sort of guidelines were needed for this. And the 'cut-off' date was one of them. Another one was the test of time. A classic, for many, means a book that is enjoyed and seemed worthy of study during several generations. While a more modern book might have the necessary ingredients to achieve this, it hasn't done so yet. Modern classics, if such a term can be used, are therefore kept in the Main (or Contemporary) Reading Circle. As for African-American literature, that is a wonderful idea, and we're already discussing it as a possible theme for later. So thank you for suggesting that. Edited April 12, 2009 by ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Ahsilet, in the case of these reading circles, "classic" has been used in the sense of a time period, rather than whether a book is classed a "classic" because of how great/influential etc it is viewed to be. So forget a time limit and let the forum speak on this. If they don't like my idea, then erase it. But saying a certain time period should determine such a thing is ridiculous. We have a group in place already who have worked very hard on the reading circles, and they have made decisions after lots of thought and discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahsilet Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Finally thoughts: With this time line, it's seems to say that "since Tolstoy, the Brontes, Dickens, and Fitzgerald are 64 years and plus before us, they are classic." I mean, I just don't see how anyone feel they can set up a time line on liteature and be okay excluding greats works of Marquez, Salinger, and Morrison from these other "classic" writers. But it's okay throwing them in the circle with Meyer, Rowling, and King just because the didn't meet this time limit. I am an American literature major and will be graduating in May and I can't even tell you a cut off for what to consider what is "classic" and what isn't. If we base things off writing style, then how can a time line for "classics" be made. The Renaissance is different from Romanticism, which is different from Victorian, which is different from Modern. So if we went off a time period due to writing style, then that can't work either, can it? But whatever, I'll leave the reading circles and classic book groups alone. I should had never made any suggestions knowing what I know now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I don't really see why it's such a problem. There's a whole debate thread about exactly this, your thoughts will be more than welcome there. Michelle, the group organisers and the BCF generally is not making a statement about what is and what is not a classic - it's simply trying to be somewhat organised. Any books not suitable in this circle are perfectly acceptable in the other circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charm Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I have to agree with the majority here. What one person considers a classic may not be the same with another so it appears to me that the forum has made a decision purely to make choosing books for the two reading circles easier. They are not laying down the law and specifically stating 'a classic is a book written pre war'. Besides some of the books you suggested Ashilet could be classed as contemporary too. I don't see the problem either. As has been said, its simply a case of organisation. Why not suggest your books to the main reading circle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 With this time line, it's seems to say that "since Tolstoy, the Brontes, Dickens, and Fitzgerald are 64 years and plus before us, they are classic." No one is saying they're classics simply because they're old. But the fact that they were written when they were, and are still considered relevant, does. Along with their themes, stylistic achievements and several other factors. I mean, I just don't see how anyone feel they can set up a time line on liteature and be okay excluding greats works of Marquez, Salinger, and Morrison from these other "classic" writers. No one is excluding, or in anyway taking away anything from these books, quite the opposite. It is simple a question of allocation. Some simple guidelines were needed to allocate books to either the Classics Circle or the Main Circle. One of them was time, like I've said. But it's okay throwing them in the circle with Meyer, Rowling, and King just because the didn't meet this time limit. I am an American literature major and will be graduating in May and I can't even tell you a cut off for what to consider what is "classic" and what isn't. Oh, please! We're not defining the classic here. We're referring to the widely held conceptions and general concepts of what are classics, yes. The two circles were created different, so that people would have some idea of what to expect from each circle. While the Classics Circle maybe should have named "non-contemporary circle", we decided to go for the term 'classic', as the intention is to read books that are widely held as literary classics. But whatever, I'll leave the reading circles and classic book groups alone. I should had never made any suggestions knowing what I know now. If you feel that way, I'm very sorry to hear that. I'm sorry we didn't design these things the way you would have liked, and that you feel restricted by our guidelines. However, I don't appreciate getting attitude for something we're sacrificed a lot of hard work for and put a lot of thought in, especially from someone who seems to purposefully misread what I have to say, and the reasons I give for our actions. We're doing this all simply to give the members of this forum an incentive to read more, and to enjoy books they maybe hadn't picked up otherwise. We love getting suggestions and ideas from everyone and do try to take them into consideration whenever possible. The guidelines were put up for the benefit of everyone, and to help people. I'm sorry to hear they weren't ones you liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 The difference between a book which is classy, great, high quality, etc, and a classic, is surely easy to understand. A book which is defined as a classic, broadly, is one which has stood the test of time, apart from anything else. But also, traditionally, it's a book in the classic style - one which isn't too modernist. Anyway, as we're allowed a cut-off of 1939 rather than 1900, say, I'd like to suggest a Russian, or maybe even Eastern European, month. Personal choice would be The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov (which everyone should read) War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy (ditto, although it was on the nominations list not long ago, so perhaps a different Tolstoy) The Good Soldier Schweijk by Jaroslav Hasek (The other great anti-war comedy) Some Dostoyevsky, perhaps Crime and Punishment Perhaps some Kafka, like The Castle or The Trial You could even have some Conrad, if you were so inclined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Andy, that's a very good idea. Especially as we're reading a french author for May. So Eastern Europe would make sense. And I love Hasek! The Good Soldier is brilliant! I was also thinking of going for all-female poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kell Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I was also thinking of going for all-female poll. Or an all male poll - an adventure-ish poll might be a nice one. Or different periods, perhaps - Rennaissance, Victorian, Regency - whichever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucybird Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 How about children's classics? There are plenty of those I haven't read (and a few I have) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I like the children's classics, I must admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 My personal taste, for a book I'm going to be discussing, would be to have something a bit meatier. For all that I love reading Childrens Classics, there's only so much you can say about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I have to agree with Andy. But then again, no matter what I put up there in the poll, my favourite one won't win anyways, so I might as well just go with something I don't like and focus on my Underground Circle instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Okay, I just took a quick look at what I myself had written in the "what defines a classic" thread, and noticed that there I, as well as several others, used WWI as the cut-off point, instead of the WWII. I apologize for this mistake. I can only blame... well, something. The same arguments apply, nonetheless. And I just had a major deja-v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewheeling Andy Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Well, I'd have thought WWI was more obvious - although it would take out Schweijk, Margarita and Kafka from my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts