The Jungle Books by Rudyard Kipling

[Kell]

THIS THREAD WILL OPEN IN JUNE

 

Anyone who would like to get hold of a copy of this book and join in the circle - there are quite a few copies available at Green Metropolis

 

Also available at Amazon. See link on site front page!

The Reading Circle choice for June is The Jungle Books by Rudyard Kipling:

The Jungle Books can be regarded as classic stories told by an adult to children. But they also constitute a complex literary work of art in which the whole of Kipling's philosophy of life is expressed in miniature. They are best known for the `Mowgli' stories; the tale of a baby abandoned and brought up by wolves, educated in the ways and secrets of the jungle by Kaa the python, Baloo the bear, and Bagheera the black panther. The stories, a mixture of fantasy, myth, and magic, are underpinned by Kipling's abiding preoccupation with the theme of self-discovery, and the nature of the `Law'.

Mowgli, the man-cub who is brought up by wolves in the jungles of Central India, is one of the greatest literary myths ever created. As he embarks on a series of thrilling escapades, Mowgli encounters such unforgettable creatures as Bagheera, the graceful black panther, and Shere Khan, the tiger with the blazing eyes. Other animal stories range from the simple heroism found in 'Rikki-tikki-tavi' to the macabre comedy 'The Undertakers'. A rich and complex fable of human life, Kipling's enduring classic dazzles the imagination with its astonishing descriptive powers and lively sense of adventure.

 

Some questions to consider:

1- Who was your favourite character and why?

2- Was there a particular part you enjoyed/disliked more than the rest?

3- Was this the first book you've read in this genre/by this author, has it encouraged you to read more?

4- Were there any parts/ideas you struggled with?

5- Overall, was reading the book an enjoyable experience?

 

(You do not have to answer all, or indeed, any, of these questions, they are meant only as points for you to perhaps mull over as you read, and provoke more discussion. Please feel free to ask and answer any questions that come up as you read.)

Edited May 24, 2008 by Kell

[~Andrea~]

Has anybody else started reading this yet?

 

I've read the first two stories and have really enjoyed them. I saw the Disney film when I was young but I can hardly remember anything about it. I will have to watch it again when I've finished. I am loving all the characters, Bagheera, Baloo and Kaa the snake.

 

The writing is very small and dense in my copy though which makes me feel like I'm making slow progress.

[Kell]

I've not started yet, but it's next on my list of books TBR. I'm interested in the "wild child" angle. I know that Disney has a tendency to sugar-coat things, so, although I loved the film as a child, I'm not setting much stock in their version of the stories. Looking forward to discussing this one with everyone!

[~Andrea~]

Oh so far it is absolutely of a different flavour. The animals are much wilder than the Disney characters (I remember the Disney characters a little more than the story)

[Echo]

We have two, very old volumes of this. My boyfriend (our old-book collector) said that it's OK if I read them, if I take the covers off. The covers are kind of falling apart.

 

I never saw the movie, or I saw it so long ago that I can't remember. I used to watch Riki-Tiki-Tavi all the time. But I wonder how not seeing the Disney movie will affect my reading of the book. I hope I actually enjoy it even more!

[Kell]

I've actualy seen several different film versions of The Jungle Books and Im' wondering how (or if) any of them will measure up to the actual books. Has anyone else seen any of the films AND read the book already who would care to comment? I always like to think about how well (or how badly) a book translates to other mediums...

[Kylie]

I've never seen the Disney version of The Jungle Book (how remiss of me!), nor any other version for that matter. (I've somehow managed to learn the 'Bare Necessities' song, though, which I love ) My knowledge of The Jungle Book is limited to a computer game that I played somewhere, at some time. I don't even recall much of that.

 

I have The Jungle Book on my TBR pile, so I'll probably start it a little later in the month.

[Sarahrob]

I started reading this on Project Gutenberg today as I was off work (hurrah!). Now I know it was written over a hundred years ago, but it is pretty.. erm... well, racist, sexist, pretty-much-anything-else-ist...

 

Take, for example, "Tiger-Tiger".

The villagers REALLY believed that Mowgli was a sorcerer? Messua would have been stoned for speaking to him? Come on, this is an Indian village - people living in the jungle are fairly likely to know about tigers...

Am I just being a grump?

 

OK then, what about The White Seal?

The male seals spend all their time fighting while the female seals look on in admiration. Fortunately a white seal shows them the path to a more civilised existance.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not just imagining this... I'm going to carry on reading the full book tonight.

[Kell]

I finished reading The Jungle Book today and from what I read, I don't think I'll be reading The Second Jungle Book for several reasons.

 

1. I'm not a fan of short story anthologies at the best of times, but when those short stories are interspersed with poems I find it very distracting, as I'm not exactly a fan of much poetry either (it's a personal taste issue - it's just not for me - at least, i've not found much to change my mind thus far - I'm always hoping that will change!).

 

2. I found the messages behind the stories to be, as Sarah said, quite racist on a general level and although I know they were written at a time when that seemed to be deemed a more acceptable way of being, I'm never comfortable with that. Many of the stories seem to me to be suggesting that the Indain people are no better than animals and all are waiting to be taken into hand by what men. The Afghans are seen as being even wilder and more uncouth than the Indians, which I thought pretty damning too.

 

3. Even taken at face value, I didn't find very many of the stories even to be all that interesting. Again, it's down to personal taste, but I found many of them to be extremely dull and very predictable.

 

I'm not sure if I can gauge Kipling's overall writing style from this single example, and I'm hoping I get on better with his novels than I did with this batch of short stories, as I fully inted to try reading Kim at some point (I have a copy waiting on my shelf), but I'm not very tempted to try more of his short stories (I also have Selected Short Stories on my shelf which was part of an omnibus edition with The Second Jungle Book).

 

I hope some of you others are having better luck with it than I had.

[~Andrea~]

I'm struggling too I think I'm going to persevere to the end of the first book and then put it down, either temporarily or permanently.

 

The stories are getting dull now. I did not enjoy The White Seal or Rikki Tikki Tavi, however I did enjoy the one with Kaa the snake.

[Kell]

Given that I have seen the Disney version of The Jungle Book, I was surprised at how Kaa was portrayed in the original book. I was also surprised there were not more stories featuring Mowgli (although, perhaps there are more in The Second Jungle Book - I don't know). Actually, thinking about it, surely there MUST be more Mowgli stories, otherwise Disney basically invented the entire story - on second thoughts, I can quite believe that after all...

[Kylie]

Interesting comments. Do you think the stories are dull because you're reading them one after the other, with no break in between? Would you recommend that I read something else alongside it so I can break up the stories (when I get around to reading it)? Or is that not the problem at all?

[Kell]

For me, I think, the dullness came from the predictability of the stories. That, coupled wth the fact that I'm not really one for short stories in the first place, was probably my major downfall on this occasion.

[~Andrea~]

I agree, some of the stories are predictable, but also the characters in The White Seal and Rikki Tikki Tavi were less interesting than those in the Mowgli stories.

 

I am finding the stories a little childish. Some children's stories are interesting for adults too, but these, well, not so much. I mean, I don't hate them, or think they are particularly terrible, they just don't float my boat.

[Kell]

I am finding the stories a little childish. Some children's stories are interesting for adults too, but these, well, not so much. I mean, I don't hate them, or think they are particularly terrible, they just don't float my boat.

Actually, I was talking to a colleague yesterday about a Scout/Cubs master who decided that reading The Jungle Book to 8-y-o boys (her kids included) would be a wonderful idea. The kids rebelled - they completely hated it! Perhaps kids who read today are getting used to more sophisticated stories than these?

[~Andrea~]

Lol. This stuff doesn't seem popular at all does it? Perhaps it is just too old fashioned.

[Kell]

The funny thing is that other classics written BEFORE that don't seem "old fashioned" in the same way. At least, not to me...

[~Andrea~]

But some things date worse than others don't they.

[Icecream]

Kell, have you seen the other film version? It is quite different to the Disney version. Disney obviously cut a lot and recreated it to appeal to children.

[Kell]

I've seen the 1942 version and it's slightly morein line with Kipling's Mowgli stories, but if I remember correctly, it still casts Kaa as a "baddie", which is a bit of a shame seeing as how in the book, Kaa actually helps Baloo and Bagheera to save Mowgli! I've also seen the 1994 version, which again doesn't really stick to the book.

 

I see there's another version slated for release in 2010 too - I wonder how close to the book that one will be, or if it will just focus on the Mowgli stories and elaborate again...

 

I wonder whether the Disney version has tainted The Jungle Book forever more, as I think people tend to think of it as only being about Mowgli and his adventures, when the majority of the stories in the book do not include him at all.

[Kylie]

I've finally gotten through the first Jungle Book after having a lot of trouble getting into it. I'd like to blame outside influences but I think the truth is that if I was really enjoying it I'd have made more time for it. Having said that, I like to persevere to the end, so I'll be starting the second Jungle Book today - hopefully at this slow pace I'll still manage to finish it by the end of the month!

 

I'm also feeling a little silly because I had everyone's comments about racism in the back of my mind when I was reading it, but I just didn't see much evidence of it and I kept wondering what I was missing? There aren't too many referencese to the Indians at all, and apart from the obvious comment at the end of the last story about how the Afghans must come under English rule, I didn't see much else. Are the animals' stories supposed to be allegories?

 

The male/female seal bit didn't bother me, and I didn't pick up on the 'white' seal being their saviour. I just assumed that because most seals are, well, greyish, another colour was needed to distinguish Kotick (or whatever his name was)? And a white seal is unusual but plausible. Maybe I'm just being naive.

 

And as for the villagers' superstitions about Mowgli etc, I've heard of equally strange superstitions in far more recent times - never mind 115-odd years ago. It might sound strange to us but villages in African countries still burn witches and do goodness knows what else. Why wouldn't it have been the same in an Indian village over 100 years ago? I can't speak with authority on the subject because I don't know enough of India's history, but the whole thing sounded entirely real to me.

 

Like Kell, I'm not much enjoying the poetry bits either. I find them a little difficult to read and they're not particularly interesting. Otherwise, the stories themselves are OK, they're just not gripping me much.

[~Andrea~]

I agree Kylie. I did not see any overt racism, it just seemed of its time. Also the male/female seal thing didn't bother me either, it was based on animal behaviour I thought.

 

The reason I didn't like the stories, was they just weren't engaging enough. They were simply 'ok'.

[Janet]

1. I'm not a fan of short story anthologies at the best of times, but when those short stories are interspersed with poems I find it very distracting, as I'm not exactly a fan of much poetry either (it's a personal taste issue - it's just not for me - at least, i've not found much to change my mind thus far - I'm always hoping that will change!).

I enjoy poetry. I've never fancied The Jungle Books, but when it came up as a reading circle choice I did think about reading them, but I guess I'm quite pleased I didn't buy them now!

 

Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but did anyone see the excellent 'My Boy Jack' written by David Haig? Haig played Kipling (they do look quite similar!). It was about how Rudyard managed to push for his son John Kipling to fight in WW1, despite the fact that he was as blind as a bat.

 

Inevitably, John was killed, but he was classed as 'Missing in Action' for a long time and the family searched and searched for him.

 

My Boy Jack

 

'Have you news of my boy Jack?'

Not this tide.

'When d'you think that he'll come back?'

Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

 

'Has any one else had word of him?'

Not this tide.

For what is sunk will hardly swim,

Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

 

'Oh, dear, what comfort can I find?'

None this tide,

Nor any tide,

Except he did not shame his kind -

Not even with that wind blowing, and that tide.

 

Then hold your head up all the more,

This tide,

And every tide;

Because he was the son you bore,

And gave to that wind blowing and that tide!

 

Rudyard Kipling (1915)

 

 

Very moving.

[Kate]

I'm not usually one for poetry but that is touching

Edited September 1, 2008 by Kell