Jane Austen Book Group - Pride and Prejudice

[Booknutt]

Hello Geneveive - and Happy New Year (better late than never! )

 

I needed a "comfort read" the other day, and picked up P & P again - and am again enjoying the gradually growing relationship of Elizabeth and Darcy.

It gets better with each re-reading.

 

Might Elizabeth's remark about the size of Pemberly making Darcy seem not such a bad choice of husband, be Elizabeth's sense of humour coming to the surface again? She frequently laughs at the shallowness of her fellow human beings, and is willing to laugh at herself, too, and that could also explain her later (self-mocking?)remark about her missed chance to be Mistress of the house, also. The written word can be a bit misleading sometimes, for the expression of a remark depends so much on the reader - and for certain, it's too late for us to ask Austen herself to clear things up!

 

I do agree with you, though - poor old Mary got a rough ride in the novel. She tried so hard to be intelligent and accomplished, for she was the plainest of the girls, and even more at a disadvantage than the rest because of that. Even her own father mocked her, and she was ignored by Mr Collins (who she'd have been an ideal wife for) in favour of her prettier sisters.

 

I read a sequel novel a few years ago (I forget who wrote it, though ) where Mary eventually wed happily, and I was so pleased for her! Us book-loving gals should stick together - for even nowadays most men will choose a "looker" rather than a "thinker". Some prejudice's are very slow to change!

[Easy Reader]

I first read P&P about 7 years ago and then kind of re-read it via P&P& Zombies (clever idea but didn't really translate onto paper in my opinion). I adore the story but unfortunatley struggle to read it (I have this problem with all classics)due to the writting style I am sure one day I will re-read it but for now I am more than happy to watch the DVD although it has to be Matthew McFadyen for me (sorry Colin).

 

I think my favourite part of the whole book though is that the Bennett's are so modern for their time that they wouldn't look out of place now and that really adds to the timelessness to the novel.

 

It had humour in spades. It was sad too. Mr Bennet being trapped in such a loveless marriage was a tragedy considering his lovable and amiable nature.

 

I don't think it was a loveless marriage. I find it hard to imagine what the marriage would have been like in the early years and what circumstances they married under (My meaning being how they were paired up I am not indicating that it was a shotgun wedding)and felt that his loveable and amiable nature was due to his happiness with his wife and his children and their different ways.

 

I read a sequel novel a few years ago (I forget who wrote it, though ) where Mary eventually wed happily, and I was so pleased for her!

Have you remembered who wrote it yet ? I like the sound of that one.

[Booknutt]

Hi, EasyReader - and welcome to serious Austen-mania!

 

I think we all know what you mean in the getting to grips with the reading of Austen-style (or that of any classic author, in fact). I love "Wuthering Heights" (Bronte) for instance, but some of it is still a challenge!)

 

It makes the film adaptations (which I love, and have all of) a bit of a mixed blessing, though. Great for displaying visually the fashions and lifestyles of the times, but then new fans can find themselves struggling with actually reading the "classic" style of expression which was of course normal in Austen-days. Well worth the effort, though, and a study guide for the novel would help. Keep scanning your local charity shops, EasyReader, there's generally quite a few of such available, especially after the school "year" is over. Or, of course, they're available faster (but more expensive!) online, or ordering through a bookstore.

 

Still can't recall title or author for the sequel which saw Mary happily settled with her "Mr. Right" except I recall the author was American. I certainly take my hat off to the American Jane-ites, for they are much more prolific in penning sequels then the Brit fans! Someday (when I have an hour or two to spare) I must potter through all the sequel novels on the Amazon website, (that's where I got it) and try to find it again.

 

Yes - the Bennet famly as a whole was quite delightfully unconventional. One of the things Darcy initially disapproved of. However, true love will find a way (and open a hero's eyes) and he loosened-up considerably over their casual attitude to the rules of their society, eventually.

 

Keep going with the Austen-reading fellow-Nutt - but the important thing is to enjoy Austen's work, whether it's in a book or on film.

[Delilah]

It's curious that Charlotte Bronte hated Jane Austen's novels. It's true! She wasn't a fan. At first Austen does seem what can I say less passionate than the Brontes but her novels have their appeal. I read Pride & Prejudice twice now! I've read Persuasion twice as well!

[Hyzenthlay]

I've read all the Austen novels, and I've especially read Pride and Prejudice (at least twenty times). I wish I was kidding, but some of you may have realised by now that I am huge on re-reading and I started on Jane Austen at a young age. I read it just the other day, actually. I think it's brilliant.

 

I can't comment on Bronte's works because I haven't read them in full, but I find there to be a lot of passion in P&P. A passion that is sometimes cleverly hidden in formalities and language, but it's present all the same. In fact, I'd say both Elizabeth's and Darcy's incredible passion for life pulsates throughout the entire novel and is what keeps the pages alive. These are people who know their own minds, how they want to live their lives, and they don't bend or shy away from anything to get there. At the same time their character flaws are clearly obvious, causing a series of misunderstandings and misjudgments, which leads to the conflicts that keep the novel interesting.

 

My point is, I guess, that you don't have to type out passionate words to convey passion. It can be done with a remark, a frown, a bow, a turn of the head. I've always appreciated subtlety in writing, instead of finding myself bludgeoned to death with the point the author is trying to make.

[Booknutt]

Hiya gang - nice to have a chat about our favourite obsession again!

 

Yes, Delilah - I heard that too, about Charlotte not thinking much of Austen novels - but of course, we're talking about two completely different natures here, and that shows in their work, don't you think? One of the things I love about reading in general, especially if reading the entire works of a particular author is that I also get to "know" another person, the author themselves, as each author puts "themselves" into their work.

 

I love Wuthering Heights too - but I need to be careful about choosing when to read it, for I can find the passion and angst quite emotionally draining. (That's not a criticism, by the way, CB herself was an openly passionate character, which was actually quite shocking in a woman, in those days)

 

JA, to be "acceptable" to the social requirements of her earlier time, was more subtle, using all the romantic tricks to build her blossoming relationship between two characters - each feisty in their own way.

 

Carry on with that re-reading habit, Hyzen I do a lot of it too, and my favourite books never lose their interest - and each time, I learn or see somethng I'd never noticed before, too. "One read and I'm done" people don't know the fun they're missing.

[Delilah]

@Booknutt I know exactly what you mean! I'm quite obsessed with the Brontes. I've read bigraphies about them but the best is Charlotte's own letters to get a glimpse of her personality! I think she was much more open about her personality much more so than Austen and I've read all of Austen's novels. Maybe I should read her letters as well!

[Booknutt]

I think you'd find J.A.'s letters quite interestng, Deliah.

 

I do understand why her sister Cassandra destroyed many of the more personal ones, in order to protect Austen's privacy. Given Austen-mania even nowadays, it was a wise thing to do. But the availble few that are left still have much of the "Jane" in them that we'd love to know better.

 

Life was so restricting for women back then in the days of Austen/Bronte. Writing was often the only real means of self expression a free-spirited female had. I think modern women should all read a few of such novels - or factual information.

Despite a few drawbacks still - we've never had it so good!

[Megh Brandel]

Ah! It's just today I joined the group and found this topic. Jane is my all time favorite I do not know why I have always related myself with Mr. Darcy. I mean he seemed so arrogant, but he was just shy and he thought he knew stuffs... which were not the right stuffs always ... And at the same time I had a teenage crush on Mr. Darcy. I guess I read P&P first about 15 years back. Revised a lot.. but wouldn't mind reading it again. it's definitely a well written and true classic. I liked Lizzy's mom, Mrs benet... :-P... not difficult to find in these days too. Not at least in my country

[Booknutt]

I recently wrote an essay about P&P for a literature course for university. In case anyone is interested in reading....... Marriage in �Pride and Prejudice� The topic of marriage is one of the themes in Jane Austen�s classic novel Pride and Prejudice. The book was written between years 1796 and 1812 and it was eventually published in 1813. Pride and Prejudice reflects very well on how society worked back then, how women had very few rights and opportunities. It is obvious throughout the book that Austen was a modern woman, writing the heroes of the book very modernly for their time. Marriage was the most important thing for a woman back in those days. They could not inherit from their fathers, which meant they had to marry in order to live a good life. This is a reason why money is often mentioned in the novel as something very important. It did not matter much if the man was unattractive or if the woman did not love him, she would consider marriage anyway because she could not afford to say no. Austen most often saw marriage as a contract. She herself considered marriage once because of money and stability. �Sensing the practical measure of both their situations, Jane agrees to the marriage. Bigg-Withers is due to inherit a sizeable amount of real estate and is well off. His one negative seems to be Jane's indifference to the man as a whole�. (janeausten.org) Austen broke up the engagement the day after she accepted it, which indicates that Austen�s opinions of marriage were very much shared by Elizabeth Bennett in Pride and Prejudice. Elizabeth refused to marry Mr. Collins because she found him to be ridiculous. She would not marry him for money, security or reputation. Throughout the novel, Elizabeth frowned upon marriage founded on economy. However, her friend Charlotte did not share the same opinion. Charlotte knew she was getting older and she knew she was already a burden to her family. So, she accepted the proposal by Mr. Collins, much to Elizabeth�s dismay. Consider Mr. Collins's respectability, and Charlotte's steady, prudent character. Remember that she is one of a large family; that as to fortune, it is a most eligible match; and be ready to believe, for everybody's sake, that she may feel something like regard and esteem for our cousin. (116). Charlotte�s actions in the novel were very much in line of how most women felt was necessary back then. For women, you could choose to marry or work, most often as a governess which was not a much respected profession. Women did not make good money, seldom enough to support a dignified lifestyle for themselves. �It is almost unheard of for a genteel youngish and never-married female to live by herself, even if she happened to be a heiress.� (pemberley.com) Charlotte married Mr. Collins because she felt she had no other choice. She was not a very attractive woman nor did she have her youth anymore. She felt grateful for Mr. Collins� proposal as it was her rescue. One who did have beauty and youth back in her day was Mrs. Bennett. She managed to snag Mr. Bennett with her looks before he got to know her and realize she was in fact a very silly woman. By the time he did realize that, it was too late. He was stuck in a loveless marriage and most often retired to his library to be alone. So much so that his fathering skills worsened as he did not make enough efforts to raise his daughters. At Brighton she will be of less importance, even as a common flirt, than she has been here. The officers will find women better worth their notice. Let us hope, therefore, that her being there may teach her her own insignificance. At any rate, she cannot grow many degrees worse without authorizing us to lock her up for the rest of her life. (196) It is clear in the novel that the elder daughters are more mature while the younger daughters are much more wild and out of control, indicating that Mr. Bennett was more of an active father earlier. Mrs. Bennett always preferred her two youngest daughters who reminded her of herself while Mr. Bennett much more preferred the more sensible elder daughters. If my children are silly, I must hope to be always sensible of it [...] This is the only point, I flatter myself, on which we do not agree. I had hoped that our sentiments coincided in every particular, but I must so far differ from you as to think our two youngest daughters uncommonly foolish. (26). Mr. Bennett saw his wife in Kitty and Lydia and he did not like it. He mocked his wife and she often failed to notice that. It is to be understood that Mrs. Bennett was a very silly woman, much like Kitty and Lydia, with her hysterics and shallowness. Since Mrs. Bennett married for money and power, we were to assume that Kitty and Lydia would do the same. Especially Lydia was foolish and overbearing in her pursuit to catch a man. Fawning over officers and other eligible men, she made a fool of herself. Mr. Wickham caught her eye and she never saw him for who he really was before she ran away with him. It did not matter to her. When a young woman leaves her family without their approval (or leaves the relatives or family-approved friends or school where she has been staying), this is always very serious -- a symptom of a radical break, such as running away to marry a disapproved husband, or entering into an illicit relationship. (pemberley.com) Her elopement could have spelled disaster for her and her family�s reputation but she did not care. However, Mr. Darcy found a way to convince Mr. Wickham to marry Lydia by giving him the money he always wanted from the Darcys. It is to be believed that Lydia�s marriage would be no happier or filled with love and respect than the marriage of Mr. and Mrs. Bennett. �Wickham's affection for Lydia was just what Elizabeth had expected to find it; not equal to Lydia's for him�. (263) The novel contrasts the marriages beginning for the wrong reasons with the marriages beginning for all the right reasons. Jane Bennett and Charles Bingley were both gullible and shy characters, but they did fall in love before they decide to marry. However, Mr. Darcy saw no evidence of Jane�s affections for Bingley and decided to break them apart to save Bingley from a bad marriage. Elizabeth later informed him that Jane is so shy and introverted that she barely shows her feelings to her own sister. �It does not often happen that the interference of friends will persuade a young man of independent fortune to think no more of a girl, whom he was violently in love with only a few days before�. (119) Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy is another example of a good marriage. In the beginning of the novel they disliked each other. She was hurt by his refusal to dance with her and found him proud and rude. He on the other hand believed she was just like the other women, trying to charm her way into a marriage. She decided to hate him based on her first impression of him and was therefore eager to believe everything bad that was said about him. Over time, he grew more fascinated by her and how different she was from all others and he could not stop thinking of her. Eventually he put his pride aside to confess his true feelings for her. "In vain I have struggled. It will not do. My feelings will not be repressed. You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you." (161)

 

It's a bit late, Emelee - but congratulations on your fantastic work!

It's a teeny point(and up to personal preference, too) but I'd just defend Mrs Bennet as having some good qualities. Yes - she was silly, and what we'd nowadays call a hypocondriac (or a "valtudenarian" - I think that may be a little mis-spelt! - as J.A. described Mr Woodhouse in "Emma") but, to be fair she was lumbered with no less than 5 daughters with no decent dowries to safely marry off, and a husband who retreated from the practicalities of fatherhood to hide in his library, so maybe her "nerves" may be excused by us a little. Looking at it that way, I can feel for her frustration when Lizzy refused the offer Mr. Collins made which would actually have placed the family - after Mr. Bennet's death - in the "safe harbour" of dependants of Collins. Then, to add to her woes, Collins was accepted by Charlotte Lucas the daughter of their neighbour, and would one day take over their home while Mrs B. and her remaining unmarried daughters would have been expected to move out.

 

It's amazing what a few years "on the clock" will do for the viewpoint of a reader, Emelee. In my teenage and twentysomethings I read this and the other Jane Austen's from a completely different angle.

 

I still love them all, though - it's good to have these novels to bring the reading-generations together, isn't it? ,

[bree]

I just completed reading this - and was delighted to find this discussion thread.

 

Sorry I'm quoting you from almost three years ago(!)

 

I don't think a book has caused so many different emotions in me for a long, long time. After feelings of total indifference I simply grew to love this book.

 

I felt exactly the same way Janet.

 

In the beginning I was a rather irked with Elizabeth for feeling so embarrassed about her mother and sisters.

I guess most people do feel this way, especially as teenagers, but eventually grow to accept their family.

I then realised Elizabeth was no more than a teenage herself - just around twenty - and she did grow beautifully through the book. (And the book did then grow beautifully on me )

 

I recently wrote an essay about P&P for a literature course for university. In case anyone is interested in reading.......

 

Marriage in Pride and Prejudice

...

I liked reading your essay emelee. You've analysed well most of the couples in the book.

I would have liked to have seen the Gardiners mention there, though, - who, I thought, were a lovely example of a happy marriage.

I thought their pair was important in the book as they were better role-models to Jane and Elizabeth, than their own parents.

[bree]

Not sure if this has been shared before - but it's hilarious!

 

http://www.much-ado.net/austenbook/

[alexia94]

I finished this book some weeks ago. I like it very much. *_*

[Booknutt]

Who was your favourite character, Alexia?

 

Darcy and Elizabeth aside, I'm very fond of Bingley, myself.

His pleasant nature would draw any lady to his company, regardless of her age or marital state.

[vodkafan]

Not sure if this has been shared before - but it's hilarious!

 

http://www.much-ado.net/austenbook/

 

That was very funny bree

[Booknutt]

A very wet Saturday afternoon forecast here ... I think I can feel a nice P & P binge comng on ... Either the book, the CD, or a few hours of Firth and long frocks on film - yes,that'll do nicelyl.

[chesilbeach]

Sounds perfect! I read it a little while back and watched that adaptation as well. A brilliant way to spend a wet weekend!

[DJMonty]

Hi everyone.

 

I'm planning to start reading some Jane Austen today, after I've cleaned up a bit. I was planning to start with Pride and Prejudice, but a friend of mine says it's one of her more difficult books. Is it a good choice for my first Austen book, or is there another that would be easier?

 

Thanks in advance.

[ashleighjane]

Well, personally I struggled to read P&P. I've tried to read it a couple of times, and gave up about half way through. That said, I haven't read any other of Austen's books, so I can't recommend any that would be easier.

 

I think really it's a case of whether or not you enjoy the subject manner. I think my problem with P&P is that I found it boring

[Ruth]

I think P&P is a good place to start. I've read all of Jane Austen's books (although some not for YEARS ) and P&P was one of the easiest to read for me. Emma is also a good one (my personal favourite of Jane Austen's). I definitely would not start with Sense and Sensibility though. I liked the book, but found it the hardest Austen to read. But it's all subjective of course. Best advice is probably just to go for it and see how you get on.

 

Whatever you decide, I hope you enjoy it

Edited January 3, 2013 by Ruth

[Hayley]

I thought Northanger Abbey was easy to read, not too long either

[Kell]

Take a look in our Jane Austen Book Group section HERE.

 

We read all her novels over the course of a year and discussed them. The threads re still open for additional comments and you may find yourself inspired.

[DJMonty]

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

 

I'll definitely check out the Austen Book Group, thanks for the link. I will be starting Pride and Prejudice after dinner tonight.

[willoyd]

I think P&P is a good place to start. I've read all of Jane Austen's books (although some not for YEARS ) and P&P was one of the easiest to read for me. Emma is also a good one (my personal favourite of Jane Austen's). I definitely would not start with Sense and Sensibility though. I liked the book, but found it the hardest Austen to read. But it's all subjective of course. Best advice is probably just to go for it and see how you get on.

 

I'd agree with all of this, except that I found S&S one of the easiest to read; but then it is also my favourite. Personally, except for perhaps Mansfield Park, I don't think any of them are difficult (an MP isn't so much difficult as the one that most people find their least favourite). Indeed, given that she is writing in the early nineteenth century, I find her amazingly accessible, and had read all but MP by my early 20s, regularly rereading since.

[vodkafan]

Sorry DJMonty, bit late coming in on this one. P & P was my first Austen, I only read it because it was being given away free in hardback with a newspaper, and I absolutely loved it. I still have that copy. I found the early 19th century writing quite charming and no problem at all to read.