~V~ Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Apparently some Catholics in North America are saying it's anti-Catholicism! The world's gone mad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ii Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Or maybe it's jut a clever (and age-old) marketing trick... Just look at the Da Vinci Code... or an older example, when the Marx brothers did A Night in Casablanca there was news that the Warner Bro (who made Casablanca) was suing them for the use of the name Casablanca as it would confuse people and mix up the two movies. The Marx brothers then famously replied by claiming they had the right for the name "brothers" as they were in fact brothers, and had been so for way longer. All this later on turned out to be a pure marketing gimmick by the Marx brothes. Hilarious, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~V~ Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 I'm sure you could be right, but it's hardly a film requiring hype is it? News article here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecream Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 If you ask me, this is Catholics being catholic, or in other words hypocritical, although i do see where the church is coming from mainly. The Dark Materials books apparently reject organised religion and are particularly critical of the catholic church (hence my previous comment), however, I can agree that some views portrayed could be severly damaging to religion. Pullman thinks that religion is so bad that it is soley responsible for horrific things happening in the past, and also controlling people (which to an extent in the catholic church is true). What I think is particularly bad, is that he seems to slander the name of God which is not a good thing and says he is happy to be known as the churches enemy, which is also very harsh for someone with such influence to say. The church is worried about its reputation. Since things like the Dark Materials and that recent book about Darwin's theory, the church is losing its grip. Apparently though, the anti catholic bias has been taken out of the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Somehow this strikes me as a year for anti-religious works and pronouncements, more than other recent years. Anyone else with that feeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Icecream - I'm sorry, and I don't normally do this, but I must say that I am offended by your statement that Catholics are hypocritical. I'm not going to get into an argument with you, or anyone else, but I couldn't let that go. My entire family is Catholic, we always have been, and none of them are hypocrites. Please be more sensitive. As for the movie, I can't wait to see it! I love Nicole Kidman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecream Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I am sorry Echo. I didn't mean to offend you, but I know a lot of catholics who agree with me that the system is wrong. I mean with all the rules that are imposed upon catholics by those who lead the religion. It is not what christianity is about. Paul, the church is becoming less influential. People have a lot to say about it. It saddens me that people can be so against it, but they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Thanks, Icecream! I no longer consider myself Catholic, or even Christian, but it's a big part of how I grew up. I've been discontented with the Church for a long time, too. See? This is how conflicts should be resolved! I think that ii is correct...controversy is only going to make the movie more popular! It worked for the Da Vinci Code, it worked for The Passion of the Christ, and it will work again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Butter Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I'd say that this reflects an increasing trend by "organised religion" (which is very different in my book from "religion" - and don't ask me to explain, 'cos it's way too early in the morning!) to try to limit criticism by what is, in the end, no more than bullying. You've had The Satanic Verses, obviously (not a new example), Sikhs trying to get a play taken off, Christians trying to stop people seeing Jerry Springer - The Opera, and most recently Muslims trying to stop the film of Brick Lane being shown. The best literature is often challenging and sometimes, yes, offensive. I'm sorry, but I don't think that, in a society which prizes free speech, anyone has a "right" not to be offended, or to decree what other people should or shouldn't read or watch. That way lies the burning of books, and I'm not sure that's a road we want to go down. I know that sounds hopelessly inarticulate, but I'm off to work now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I totally agree, and I hope you don't think that I was trying to censor what anyone should read or watch. I'm a big fan of free speech, even speech that makes me angry. If we don't protect what offends us, then what we love will also be censored. There's hardly anything that doesn't offend someone, somewhere. By getting rid of offensive movies, books, TV shows, or art, we'd also be getting rid of everything interesting! Here is what I would say to those people, those "book-burners": get over yourself! Stop trying to run other people's lives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fireball Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I've got these somewhere among my book boxs.! he's an edgy writer, from what I've heard, and read. Speaking of....Please go and have a look at his site http://www.philip-pullman.com/, and after that have a look at this. :http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/hisdarkmaterials/index.shtml I have to say though I've not actually read the trilogy, the radio serialisation was damn good. Like to here what you think of both sites, and did any here listen to the wondrous and atmospheric serialisation of 'HIS DARK MATERIALS' trilogy.? One things for sure, he's sure no Harry Potter (which I enjoyed immensely), Pullman's an antidote more like.!!! This too might be of interest too. http://www.hisdarkmaterials.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I think the proble is that Pullman has previously said about the books, "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief." The anti-Catholic bit in particular has come about, I believe, because of his portrayal of priests as evil. However, as someone who doesn't actively attend a church, but has some strong beliefs, I found the ending of the trilogy extremely uncomfortable. I'm honestly not sure if I want my daughter to see the film, then want to go on and read the rest of the books.. but of course that is my personal view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inver Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Why can't people just read a book for the story instead of looking for deep and meaningful things all the time. I have only read the Northern Lights of the trilogy and found it quite an exciting plot etc although I didn't want to go off immediately and read the other two though. Think it is one of those trilogy that you like or don't I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 If you read the final book Inver, you'll find that you don't need to look for anything deep and meaningful.. it's right there in front of you. I rnjoyed the first two books, because as you say, I liked the story and plot. But, IMHO, the 3rd book pushed it too far.. for me, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fireball Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Why can't people just read a book for the story instead of looking for deep and meaningful things all the time. People I think, where they feel their "faith" appears, to be called in to question are whatever they think, will of course have a knee jerk reaction,! Like I said, I've the books somewhere in my boxes, I've only heard the radio version, so I'll do a bit of hunt the book mode to get me going.! Also if what icecream was saying: Pullman thinks that religion is so bad that it is soley responsible for horrific things happening in the past, and also controlling people (which to an extent in the catholic church is true). What I think is particularly bad, is that he seems to slander the name of God which is not a good thing and says he is happy to be known as the churches enemy, which is also very harsh for someone with such influence to say. and what it said on the BBC site said. : The three-part series culminates in an epic battle in which God dies - at the hand of a child. Well, I suppose thats grist for the mill, never mind A+ for the movie and MORE bums on seats.! But your right Inver, Why can't people just read a book for the story instead of looking for deep and meaningful things all the time. it's only fiction, a sad read from what I've heard; and it's, I think, only part :1, I think there's two more to come film wise . ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 This is not really on topic, but kinda on topic. There was a British teacher in Sudan who was arrested for naming a teddy bear "Mohammed" in her class. Apparently they said it insults Muslim culture. Now because people are too sensitive a wonderful teacher will be punished. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/11/27/sudan.bear.ap/index.html I think people are too sensitive. Let it be. There are more important things to worry about in the world. I am religious, but I also respect others beliefs. We all need something to believe in. For me I believe in God, but I also respect the person who believes in "Mohammed". Tolerance is what we all need to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicken Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Tolerance is what we all need to learn I second that - all this fuss and bother about a film, its a film based on a work of fiction! As for the teacher in Sudan - that is just terrible, the poor woman is there to help the children learn, I shouldn't imagine insulting anybody was very high on her list of priorities. Its a shame and the authorities should think again, its a little petty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fireball Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Quite right chicken, hearing the comments from Five Live ditto Radio 4. news, it's not what the lady intended. Apparently in that country it hasn't got the same affinity for a teddy bear as the rest of the world. I don't think its petty per se, but a cultural misunderstanding. Wasn't it a parent who made the complaint,? seems it's found insulting to 'name' their god and use a teddy as him.! But to give 40 lashes!!! NOW that's harsh for a genuine mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecream Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I agree with you all. What I was saying earlier was from what i read in Christianity magazine. I should have said that of course, but it was late:blush:. Anyway, of course a book should be taken as a story and just given its merits on that basis. The article I was reading also said that all the anti christian stuff had been taken out of it and apparently Nicole Kidman herself said that there is no anti catholic bias in the film. This sounds like a fantasy film and nothing else. I think the thing with film is that it tends to reach many more people than a book. I have no problem with other religions or views as a christian, but I do have a strong missionary ethic that comes from being a christian (converting the world to christianity) and it sort of annoys me when something as public as this happens that seems against that missionbut then again there are lots of things in the world to tempt people away from christianity. If Christians want to spread the word of God then they should do it, find ways to communicate with people instead of just complaining (again nothing personal and no offense meant). I don't want to turn this into a religious debte either. I just wanted to express this view. As for the woman in Sudan the first thing I thought was that if she is not of their religion, how can she possibly blaspheme? It is such an unfair accusation and that punishment is just uncalled for. I just pray that God is with her and he will get her through the ordeal. As a christian, I am sure that he will bring something good out of her suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Andrea~ Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 If the books have an atheist message the Catholic church is bound to have an opinion. What's wrong with them expressing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecream Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I didn't mean that people should not speak their opinion. Of course they should. If they didn't, then we would not see the different views that there are in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 If the books have an atheist message the Catholic church is bound to have an opinion. What's wrong with them expressing it? Nothing's wrong with them expressing their opinion, but what gets me is when they try to force their opinions on others by telling them to boycott the movie (I was raised Catholic by the way, and my comments apply to various religions, not just Catholicism). People should be able to make up their own minds by reading the books and/or watching the movie. I think that's the only real way they can have an informed opinion. I also think kids should be able to make up their own mind. People give entirely too much credit to the influence of books on kids sometimes. With the Harry Potter series, people were anxious that their kids would turn to witchcraft (which goes to show their ignorance of that religion), and now with His Dark Materials they're worried that their kids will become atheists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecream Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 You are right Kylie. I am a huge fan of Harry Potter, and am a christian. I cannot see why link to withcraft in the series. It is just an enjoyable fantasy series. People will make their own minds up and I do not agree that people, especially children already in the church should be told not to read or watch something. The church has every right to express an opinion of course, but should never tell people what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenmck Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Organizing a boycott I don't think is forcing others to believe BUT I do see the problem with some of the harsh rhetoric that's flying around. I think the issue lies in that Mr. Pullman has been quoted as saying he WROTE THE BOOKS to undermine the Christian religion and they're AIMED AT CHILDREN. Some have compared this to the Harry Potter stuff. I don't think so. J.K. Rowling never claimed to be furthering the idea of wizardry as opposed to Christianity. Having said that, my objection to seeing the movie (I haven't decided) or buying his books is that I'll be putting money in the pocket of someone who is actively seeking to "undermine" something I believe. Personally, I don't think my kids will "catch" the anti religious tone UNLESS I point it out. Which I'm not going to. I'm hoping I can take them to see this as a good movie, not some allegory for anti religious atheism. I'm not, however, going to buy his books for my niece. That's my choice. He may get a cut from the film from me but no royalties. *shrugs* It's the choice of every person to make and he chose to declare his intent on Christianity. It's my choice not to support his effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteffieB Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Ok, so I love Harry, read them all multiple times. I thought the Golden Compass stuff was all right, I wouldn't mind seeing the movie if I have time. I noticed a rather obvious hidden meaning when I was reading them, but didn't really think anything of it, nor would I keep my kids (or nieces anyway) from reading them because of it. Neither would I forbid them from reading the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe because of it's overly religious themes to which I don't ascribe. Why is one ok and not the other? As a non-religious person, I find all religions fascinating, and respect people choices, as I hope they respect mine. There are extremists in all religions, aren't there? And non-religious people, too. But most Catholics I know are a lot more tolerant than a group that would boycott a movie. BTW, teddy bears are a purely American invention, thanks to President Teddy Roosevelt, and I can completely understand any anti-Western sentiment associated with naming one Mohammed. It's just another religious statement, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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