chesilbeach Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/17/author-uk-dream-job I know this survey was conducted on behalf of an organisation dedicated to digital publishing, but even so, 60% of correspondents said they would like to be an author and 54% would like to be a librarian. Personally, I'm obviously in the minority, as despite being an avid reader, I would not be suited to writing for a living, and I'd only want to be a librarian in the 1950s when it was still all about books. I'd much rather be a bookseller, so I could read all my products and chat to people who wanted to buy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I do wonder if a lot of people have a very distorted idea of what it actually means to be a full time author. Sure, it might seem like a great occupation, turning out wonderful novels and making money and becoming famous. But that doesn't happen to everyone... Not that I would know what it is really like to be an author, but I don't think it's as exciting as some people think. One has to have a lot of discipline, and one has to be able to take criticism, and be okay with the idea of having one's text shaped and edited by other people. There's also one aspect I would hate: promoting one's book and oneself. Talking to people. Having to sit in front of people, discussing one's book. And how it came together. Having people who haven't even read the book judge you and your creation. *shudder* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oh Lord yes .. and in the beginning having to tout it around. Sitting in bookshops and trying to persuade every one that comes through the door that they want to buy your book. I've seen some new authors in the local Waterstone's and they look like they'd rather be anywhere else. It's okay if you're known or have the gift of the gab but for some of them it must be excruciating. Also imagine staring at that blank page every day .. the one you've got to fill with writing nightmare! I agree with Claire also that libraries (here in the UK) have got less and less about books and more about admin and piddling about on computers. I'm sure my local library would rather you borrowed a DVD or CD than a book .. certainly they promote them more Yes .. a bookshop is best .. with a tea shop The tea shop would sell cakes etc influenced by or directly linked to stories. I've already talked to Alan about the quotations and scenes etc that he can paint on the wall. It's all in my head .. and that's where it will stay of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) The thing with being in author/writer in the UK is that it just doesn't pay very well and many bigger name writers have found their income from book sales falling. Obviously, there are the mega writers who make millions, but that is the tip of an iceberg where the base is a huge number of writers who earn very little. The was an interesting story in The Guardian about this last year. Edited February 19, 2015 by Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I agree with Claire also that libraries (here in the UK) have got less and less about books and more about admin and piddling about on computers. I'm sure my local library would rather you borrowed a DVD or CD than a book .. certainly they promote them more Yes .. a bookshop is best .. with a tea shop The tea shop would sell cakes etc influenced by or directly linked to stories. I've already talked to Alan about the quotations and scenes etc that he can paint on the wall. It's all in my head .. and that's where it will stay of course That is such a shame to hear! My library does have CDs and DVDs and video games and audiobooks, but they have by far much more books to borrow and the books are promoted much more throughout the library, as far as I can tell when I'm there. I agree that being an author is probably a very tough job. Frankie, I would also dislike promoting things! I think I'd rather be a librarian than an author.. but I don't want to talk with many people. I think I'd like to just put the books back on their shelves where they belong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) The thing with being in author/writer in the UK is that it just doesn't pay very well and many bigger name writers have found their income from book sales falling. Obviously, there are the mega writers who make millions, but that is the tip of an iceberg where the base is a huge number of writers who earn very little. The was an interesting story in The Guardian about this last year. If you think authors don't get paid well in the UK, you can only imagine what it's like in Finland, with a considerably smaller reading audience! There are maybe 5-10 authors in Finland who can actually make a living by writing books. Some of them have earned a million euros. But the others? They have other full time jobs and they have to apply for different types of writing grants. It's very, very difficult. And we haven't even got that Scandinavian crime hype going on for us like they do in Sweden and Norway and Denmark. But I imagine Iceland is suffering immensely, too. Poor Iceland and Finland, the losers of the Nordic countries Edited February 19, 2015 by frankie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 That's very true Sari, it must be incredibly difficult for those writers to break through to a point where they can earn a living. The best I can do is offer a collective hug to the Finnish and Icelandic people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolf woolf Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have the idea that many of the best authors were ordinary people with a daily routine and wrote in their free time. I think it has always been hard for those who try to just write books for a living. As I see, they feel pressure to put something on paper to survive, they have far less of the everyday episodes that help to add something to the stories an their artistic freedom to write what and how they want is more easily restrained by publishers. From what I know, most celebrated authors had a different professional career, spent their years in odd jobs and misery, or lived at the expense of others: hardly a comfortable life where one spends a determined set of hours writing, like a normal job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 If you think authors don't get paid well in the UK, you can only imagine what it's like in Finland, with a considerably smaller reading audience! There are maybe 5-10 authors in Finland who can actually make a living by writing books. Some of them have earned a million euros. But the others? They have other full time jobs and they have to apply for different types of writing grants. It's very, very difficult. And we haven't even got that Scandinavian crime hype going on for us like they do in Sweden and Norway and Denmark. But I imagine Iceland is suffering immensely, too. Poor Iceland and Finland, the losers of the Nordic countries Poor authors . I think it's a bit the same in the Netherlands, I think there aren't that many authors who make a lot of money, other than the really famous ones (in Dutch terms). In most book shops (in my experience), you will find far more translated works from mainly the United States than originally Dutch books. I watched a nice video about this a while ago, about the price of a physical Dutch book and how much of that actually goes to the author. Unfortunately the video was in Dutch so I couldn't share it with you (and I don't remember now the link), but only a small margin actually goes to the author (I expect this is the same in most countries though, except when authors self-publish ebooks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesilbeach Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 For me, the main problem with being an author would be having to spend so much time alone in a room writing. It's never going to happen anyway as I don't have the imagination to come up with anything original (I know that doesn't stop a lot of authors ). Also, it's such a personal, creative activity, so it must be incredibly difficult to work to a deadline, and then also lose your ownership of the book when it comes to things such as editing, cover design and promotion, which you will do unless you're in the very top ranks of authors in this country, as your publishers will probably have the last word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 This is it isn't it? I feel sure I could come up with something if left in a room with some paper for long enough. But I wouldn't want to write just anything .. I'd want to be as good as Susanna Clarke and there's no way I have that sort of inventiveness in me. I'd write a book that I'd despise if I read it As for letting someone else make the decisions about the cover etc I couldn't do it Plus I wouldn't want to talk to anyone about it Poor Finnish and Icelandic authors It all goes back to what dear old Ginny Woolf was saying about needing a certain amount of money behind you to be a successful author (which .. at the time of her writing was almost impossible for women.) You need to be free to be creative and things like money worries or insecurities about the future are never going to help. Having said that it inspires some people (like J.K. Rowling) but then that's because the opportunities are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You can get around the cover problem, and several of the others, by self publishing a Kindle book (there are quite a few who have made money out of that, most notably Amazon!). I'd like to have a go at writing a book, but I'm not sure my English is up to it (hence the course I'm taking) and inventiveness is also a worry, but I'd rather tell straight-forward, entertaining stories than smart complex ones anyway (think, Northern Exposure rather The West Wing!). We should have another writing competition on here, I've managed to miss the last two! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyshake Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 That is such a shame to hear! My library does have CDs and DVDs and video games and audiobooks, but they have by far much more books to borrow and the books are promoted much more throughout the library, as far as I can tell when I'm there. I agree that being an author is probably a very tough job. Frankie, I would also dislike promoting things! I think I'd rather be a librarian than an author.. but I don't want to talk with many people. I think I'd like to just put the books back on their shelves where they belong. There are a lot of great libraries in the UK .. Swindon has some really good ones where books are the focus. But the librarians are so busy doing data entry or whatever that there's not that feel now that you could just go and start picking their brains about books. Possibly you could but they always look too busy to be dealing with general enquiries. It's a difficult one because a lot of libraries are under threat so it's probably not the most relaxing of atmospheres to work in. My local library though is pretty hopeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talisman Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I have the idea that many of the best authors were ordinary people with a daily routine and wrote in their free time. I think it has always been hard for those who try to just write books for a living. As I see, they feel pressure to put something on paper to survive, they have far less of the everyday episodes that help to add something to the stories an their artistic freedom to write what and how they want is more easily restrained by publishers. From what I know, most celebrated authors had a different professional career, spent their years in odd jobs and misery, or lived at the expense of others: hardly a comfortable life where one spends a determined set of hours writing, like a normal job. Sounds about right - and pretty close to my own experience. in my humble opinion, half the problem is that books (and by default those that write them) are not sufficiently valued. People baulk at spending more than a fiver on a book which took sometimes years to write, but have no problem in spending hundreds of pounds on say a painting, which may have taken a few days to paint. Books are seen as a disposable commodity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexi Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Speaking as someone who writes for a living - although not books! - I wouldn't want to be an author. One of those reasons would be the pressure of coming up with an idea and writing it well. And the knowledge that if you can't there won't be any food on the table. Secondly, if I've spent an hour on an article I still get annoyed when it's chopped and changed. I can't imagine how I would feel if I'd poured years and my soul into the work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 People baulk at spending more than a fiver on a book which took sometimes years to write, but have no problem in spending hundreds of pounds on say a painting, which may have taken a few days to paint. Books are seen as a disposable commodity. I've never understood that to be honest. I don't see why books would somehow be less worthy than art. I guess maybe it is because books can be more easily reprinted and art cannot, unless it's not the original artist doing so? That said, I couldn't afford to spend a lot of money and even if I could, I wouldn't spend lots of money on a painting. I'd much rather have books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesilbeach Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sounds about right - and pretty close to my own experience. in my humble opinion, half the problem is that books (and by default those that write them) are not sufficiently valued. People baulk at spending more than a fiver on a book which took sometimes years to write, but have no problem in spending hundreds of pounds on say a painting, which may have taken a few days to paint. Books are seen as a disposable commodity. I'm going to have to disagree with this. Firstly, the people who baulk at the RRP of a book are almost certainly not the same people who can afford to pay hundreds of pounds on a painting. Secondly, a painting is rarely something that may have taken a few days to paint. If you're spending any sort of money on a painting, it's got the same amount of research as a book would. The artist will have had to decide on the subject, make sketches, preliminary paintings, and even "edit" the final version, before being prepared to put the work up for sale. But, the buyer is buying the exclusive rights to that painting, sole ownership of a piece of art, whereas with a book, you're buying a copy of it. And then, if you're getting into artists who have a body of work, you're also buying into that, where the name on the painting is significant and can increase the value of the book. There is then also the increasing value of art, which goes on long after the artist has died, as the painting is still an original, unlike a book, unless you're talking about a rare first edition of a highly valued book, often again, long after the author has died. There's also the issue of publishing. On our behalf, publishers do spend large amounts of money obtaining some books for us. They then own the rights to reproduce the manuscript into whatever format they wish and sell it to us to recoup their money, and hopefully, sell enough copies to make money. But as a book buyer, you're buying an unknown. You might read a couple of pages in the shop, or download a sample to your ereader, but for the most part, you have little knowledge as to whether you will enjoy reading what you buy. You don't buy a painting having only seen a square inch of the bottom right corner … you've seen the whole thing and been able to judge whether you like it. Of course, you could read a book without paying for it by borrowing it from the library, but then you are probably still paying for it through your taxes which keep the library going. Then you have to look at the books people buy. I don't believe that people do stop themselves from buying certain books at a higher price if they think it's warranted. I think for authors they know and trust, people will spend more on a book than they might normally, but again, they're not just paying for that single book, they're paying for the name and the value of the book to them personally … it's why there's still a market for hardback books to be published ahead of paperbacks. If no-one was buying hardbacks, the publishers would not produce them .. they cost more to make and transport, and they still have to then publish later in paperback anyway, so they only do it if there is a demand for them. There's also the issue that once an artist has sold a painting, that's it, they'll never see any more profit out of it, and even if the value increases exponentially based on later works, that painting still sold for say £100. Not true for the author … even if their publisher paid them a meagre sum for the rights, once the publisher has made back any initial payment, some of the profits from further sales will go to the author. They'll also get PLR from any library loans … if an artists painting goes in a gallery or museum, that institution will make profits from any entrance fees they charge for the public to view the painting they own. I'm not saying it's easy for authors or that they are valued, but the comparison to art and artists does not stack up in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Those are some fair points, Chesil, I didn't think about it like that. Something to ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Woah. Lot of interesting points there, Claire. I've never really been a huge fan of the whole art thing (despite drawing a lot myself - the fact that I draw Disney/Dreamworks style cartoons says a lot about how seriously I take my art ) - I've actually always balked at the cost of paintings. My friend is an artist, and has sold paintings which honestly I thought were fairly mediocre for a couple of hundred euro, and I never understood how they could possibly rack up that kind of money. But what you said about uniqueness, time, research etc... it does make sense, I guess. Still wouldn't ever pay for an original painting though As for being an author, I wouldn't want it to be my full time profession. I'd love to find the time (and creativity!) to put out one book I'd written and illustrated myself, but even if it was successful (it wouldn't be) I wouldn't agree to produce more on demand. Anything creative has never really been a viable career direction for me simply because making a job of it removes the creative aspect, for me. I think when people say their dream job is to be an author, they mean J.K. Rowling style. Get so rich and famous off one idea that they don't need to ever write another book. I'd be cool with that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesilbeach Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Here's an interesting article from an author on why you probably wouldn't want to be an author! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/11422473/14-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-dream-of-being-a-full-time-author.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Here's an interesting article from an author on why you probably wouldn't want to be an author! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/11422473/14-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-dream-of-being-a-full-time-author.html That's very interesting, thanks for that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nollaig Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Isolation would be my number 1 reason to WANT to be an author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talisman Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 There are some interesting points there that you make Chesil, which I have to concede you are right on, especially the idea of a painting being a one off original. I still think though that books are undervalued. As for that article, I had to laugh when it said the average full time author makes £11K a year. I never made anywhere near that, and don't know one single author that does - most of the ones I know are lucky to make even half that, but then it did say this is the average. It's a bit like the so-called average wage - most people I know don't make anywhere near that either. If 17K is deemed to represent an acceptable income, most of my friends are living in poverty ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesilbeach Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Here's another view on writing as a career from author Tim Lott http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/feb/20/tim-lott-life-as-an-author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 As for that article, I had to laugh when it said the average full time author makes £11K a year. I never made anywhere near that, and don't know one single author that does - most of the ones I know are lucky to make even half that, but then it did say this is the average. It's a bit like the so-called average wage - most people I know don't make anywhere near that either. If 17K is deemed to represent an acceptable income, most of my friends are living in poverty ! I'm in agreement with the money thing. I'm on benefits, which is a percentage of the minimum wage in the Netherlands, and I get a whole lot less than that (and we have to live off that with two people, currently). I'm sorry you never got a lot of money for your writing. It does seem unfair on how some authors are very succesful and some aren't. I've read some great books by authors that haven't sold that many of their books. In the Netherlands, that is why we have the 'standard book price', meaning every book sold in any normal book shop has to be sold for at least X amount of money. So unless it's a sale, a book from an unknown author costs just as much as a book that's a bestseller. There has been debate about whether to abolish this standard book price, I believe it was decided to keep it for at least another two years, then it will be discussed again. I also agree with Noll, not having to go out as much to do work with other people, seems like a great thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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