Karsa Orlong Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson Book 1 of The Malazan Book of the Fallen This thread is for discussion of Gardens of the Moon only, and will contain spoilers for this book. For any comments about related events/characters/plot from the other books in the series, please use spoiler tags. The Malazan Empire simmers with discontent, bled dry by interminable warfare, bitter infighting, and bloody confrontations. Even the imperial legions, long inured to the bloodshed, yearn for some respite. Yet Empress Laseen's rule remains absolute, enforced by her dread Claw assassins. For Sergeant Whiskeyjack and his squad of Bridgeburners, and for Tattersail, surviving cadre mage of the Second Legion, the aftermath of the siege of Pale should have been a time to mourn the many dead. But Darujhistan, last of the Free Cities of Genabackis, yet holds out. It is to this ancient citadel that Laseen turns her predatory gaze. But it would appear that the Empire is not alone in this great game. Sinister, shadowbound forces are gathering as the gods themselves appear to play their hand . . . Edited July 20, 2014 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Thought I'd open this thread as I've just started on my re-read this morning. Only 30 pages in, but already sucked right back into SE's world. This'll be the third time I've read it right through. The first time I read it I didn't even pick up on little things in the prologue, like the soldier carrying the fiddle. Hmm, wonder who that is? And then the opening scene with Rigga and the fisher girl, leading to the first appearance of Ammanas and Cotillion and the Hounds of Shadow Where are you up to, Tim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Going to have to spoilerise this straight away A bit of dialogue early on, between Paran and Tavore when the former returns home: He asked, "And how is Felisin?" "At her studies. She's not heard of your return. She will be very excited, then crushed to hear of the shortness of your visit." "Is she your rival now, Tavore?" His sister snorted, turning away. "Felisin? She's too soft for this world, brother. For any world, I think." Hoo, boy, that resonated with me big time when I read it just now. Amazing how the foreshadowing has already begun, and the hints of such tragedy to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 *Tumbleweed* Finished 'Book One - Pale' on the way to work this morning. A few of my favourite characters are turning up now, especially The Bridgeburners: Kalam, Quick Ben, Fiddler, and Whiskeyjack. Loved the way this section finished, with Gear prowling the streets of Pale searching for Hairlock. The image of Hairlock running around in the 'body' of a marionette, throwing around super-powerful magic, always amuses me Kalam and Quick Ben being mysterious. Fiddler spouting portents like there's no tomorrow. Tattersail and her deck of cards. Paran riding his horse through the gate from the Imperial Warren into Laseen's throne room Sigh, I've missed this series I'd forgotten it was this early in the book that Sorry attempted to assassinate Paran - for some reason it was in my head that it happened once they got to Darujhistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Going to have to spoilerise this straight away A bit of dialogue early on, between Paran and Tavore when the former returns home: He asked, "And how is Felisin?" "At her studies. She's not heard of your return. She will be very excited, then crushed to hear of the shortness of your visit." "Is she your rival now, Tavore?" His sister snorted, turning away. "Felisin? She's too soft for this world, brother. For any world, I think." Hoo, boy, that resonated with me big time when I read it just now. Amazing how the foreshadowing has already begun, and the hints of such tragedy to come. It never fails to amaze me how far ahead he must have planned, and all the little details. You can really tell they spent the better part of 20 years building the world and the story, and it boggles the mind! *Tumbleweed* Sorry, I've not been on for a few days, and I imagine Tim is avoiding this thread until he's finished the book. I'd forgotten it was this early in the book that Sorry attempted to assassinate Paran - for some reason it was in my head that it happened once they got to Darujhistan God, I was terrified of Sorry when I first read GotM, even though I had no clue who she was or what was going on. I'll always remember the image of Paran picking his way amongst the carnage of the hounds - just one of many striking images that come flashing back any time I think of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Interesting review here from someone on Goodreads who just finished Gardens of the Moon for the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Sorry, I've not been on for a few days, and I imagine Tim is avoiding this thread until he's finished the book. Oh I hope not, that's why I wondered where he was up to (not much further on from last week, from what I've gathered). I've just been chucking in comments about stuff as I come across them, otherwise I'd never remember what I wanted to say Anyway, first rooftop assassins encounter occurred at lunchtime today (in the book, not for me at the office ). I always remember the rooftop battles in this book, cos I might've been inspired to include one in the story I was writing I'll always remember the image of Paran picking his way amongst the carnage of the hounds - just one of many striking images that come flashing back any time I think of the series. Yeah, and riding down to the fishing village with the Adjunct and seeing that Sorry's father's boat was missing . . . Interesting review here from someone on Goodreads who just finished Gardens of the Moon for the first time. I wonder if that's the same person I was chatting to about it on SFF Chronicles. His username there was Conor. He started PMing me about the series because there was a guy on there being constantly negative about it - and quite aggressively so - when Conor was asking questions about stuff, and it was really starting to annoy him. Last I heard, he was on Memories of Ice and totally loving it That review is pretty much spot on, I think. It does chuck you in the deep end. I loved that about it the first time I read it, and still do now. It's a challenge, and so different from most of the other fantasy I'd read at the time. The major 'problem' with this book, imo, is that a lot of its depth and its secrets don't reveal themselves until you re-read it after having read the rest of the series. There's so much foreshadowing, so many throwaway comments that relate to events five, six, seven books down the line. On re-read it's almost like reading a different book entirely, so many jaw-on-floor "oh, so that's what that was about!" moments. A lot of people don't have the patience for that because they feel they need to understand everything straight away, which I can appreciate but it's a shame nevertheless. Part of the fun I found in these books was being swept along and figuring stuff out as I went Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesilbeach Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I thought I'd have a look at the Kindle sample of the book, just so I knew a bit more about it (I haven't read it yet), and I noticed there is a preface from Erikson from December 2007, describing a bit about the process of how the books came about and his approach to writing them and back story is one thing that comes up. It's obviously written a few years ago now, but if your copies of the books are older, you might not have seen it, so thought I'd mention it just in case anyone is interested. (Even if you don't have a Kindle, you can go to the Amazon page and click on the cover for the Look Inside function, and read the sample there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Thanks Claire It was actually that very introduction that inspired me to start writing when I first read the book. It was his 'no compromises' attitude that really got to me. Fascinating stuff, and that was before I'd even read any of the story itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Love the description of Tool's voice as being "born of stones and dust" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I love Tool. Trying to read my Abercrombie as fast as I can now so I can start on GotM - you're making me jealous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tool's awesome. I think the T'Lan Imass are my favourites of all the races in the series Favourite quotes time, seeing as I reached this first one this morning Lorn and Tool: “Tell me, Tool, what dominates your thoughts?"The Imass shrugged before replying. "I think of futility, Adjunct.""Do all Imass think about futility?""No. Few think at all.""Why is that?"The Imass leaned his head to one side and regarded her. "Because Adjunct, it is futile.” Whiskeyjack and Paran: “Every decision you make can change the world. The best life is the one the gods don't notice. You want to live free, boy, live quietly.""I want to be a soldier. A hero.""You'll grow out of it.” Kruppe (to himself, as usual . . . ): "My," Kruppe breathed, "but Kruppe's dreams have taken a strange turn." No s**t, Sherlock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Those are some excellent quotes, Steve . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tattersail, grieving for those who fell at Pale: ...an anonymous aide would paint a red stroke across the 2nd Army on the active list, and then write in fine script beside it: Pale, late winter, the 1163rd Year of Burn’s Sleep. Thus would the death of nine thousand men and women be noted. And then forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Thought I should weigh in, I've got <200 pages left and I'm really starting to get into it (though, ironically, the section I'm reading at the moment has completely fallen out of the binding ) Really enjoying it and it's getting better by the page. At the moment I think understand the events but not the meaning or significance but from what others have said, I'm guessing this will change later on and then on a re-read. Those quotes you put up Steve where some of my favourites and I ended up reading them two or three times to fully appreciate them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That's great to hear, Tim! Have fun reading the last part of the book, I look forward to read your review/thoughts when you have it finished . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Thought I should weigh in, I've got <200 pages left and I'm really starting to get into it (though, ironically, the section I'm reading at the moment has completely fallen out of the binding ) Oh dear Do you think you'll finish it before the library want it back for that inconsiderate person who wants it? Really enjoying it and it's getting better by the page. At the moment I think understand the events but not the meaning or significance but from what others have said, I'm guessing this will change later on and then on a re-read. Yeah, I genuinely think it's best with this book not to try and understand it all straight away, cos otherwise the drip-feed of information would probably drive you mad. I guess it's something that you can either enjoy or not - glad to hear it's the former Things will become clear(er). Eventually . . . I think it's largely down to his use of the so-called unreliable narrator, in that at any given time we're getting someone or other's point of view, but their idea of what really happened - and why, and to whom - may be completely different to another character's. Or, as Paran said at one stage: “There were too many omissions, half-truths and outright lies in this... this chaotic mess.” I think SE was trying to tell us something there Those quotes you put up Steve where some of my favourites and I ended up reading them two or three times to fully appreciate them Considering how verbose he is, SE does have the ability to convey a lot of info in a few words. I imagine it must take him an age to hone some paragraphs until they say just enough, not too much, not too little. Mind you, it does tend to go out of the window when he gets to the philosophy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Tim, do you plan to read the second book after finishing the first? (or is it too early to ask this question ) Ah, the unreliable narrator. That makes perfect sense. Thanks for that, Steve. When I was a child and young teenager, I didn't yet understand this concept and believed what book characters said to be the truth as it happened. Knowing that it might help me understand the book better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Do you think you'll finish it before the library want it back for that inconsiderate person who wants it Yeah should be able to Yeah, I genuinely think it's best with this book not to try and understand it all straight away, cos otherwise the drip-feed of information would probably drive you mad. I guess it's something that you can either enjoy or not - glad to hear it's the former Things will become clear(er). Eventually . . . I think it's largely down to his use of the so-called unreliable narrator, in that at any given time we're getting someone or other's point of view, but their idea of what really happened - and why, and to whom - may be completely different to another character's. Or, as Paran said at one stage: “There were too many omissions, half-truths and outright lies in this... this chaotic mess.” I think SE was trying to tell us something there That's a good point, I do forget that sometimes and accept whatever I'm told as truth Tim, do you plan to read the second book after finishing the first? (or is it too early to ask this question ) I will certainly be reading the 2nd and 3rd (given that the 3rd carrys on from the 1st and the 2nd is a new story). But not right away, I have tonnes more to get through including a few library books. I am also contemplating a month off from fantasy to catch up on other genres which have been lacking this year. I also need to try and find a copy of the next books and the library doesn't look promising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I will certainly be reading the 2nd and 3rd (given that the 3rd carrys on from the 1st and the 2nd is a new story). But not right away, I have tonnes more to get through including a few library books. I am also contemplating a month off from fantasy to catch up on other genres which have been lacking this year. I also need to try and find a copy of the next books and the library doesn't look promising That's not a bad idea at all, to catch up on other genres that you like . Awww, I hope you can find them at the library (or request them from a different one). Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I will certainly be reading the 2nd and 3rd (given that the 3rd carrys on from the 1st and the 2nd is a new story). But not right away, I have tonnes more to get through including a few library books. I am also contemplating a month off from fantasy to catch up on other genres which have been lacking this year. I also need to try and find a copy of the next books and the library doesn't look promising Shame about the library, but at least you have one nearby! My current plan is to read one of the books per month. Given that it'll take me a couple of weeks to read each one it should allow me another couple of weeks each month for TBR stuff. I probably won't let it go too long between each cos, even after having read them twice, I'm worried that I might forget stuff between books. SE's not big on giving recaps (i.e. there aren't any!) and it's four years since I last read them, so . . . Plus I'm planning to fit in the ICE books at the appropriate places, too, and there's three (soon to be four) of those that I've never read. That means it might be a couple of months between SE's books - ample time to forget everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That sounds like a good plan, Steve. If you forget something, perhaps there is a Wiki or a site or forum where you can look it up? I've done that before with books in series, if I couldn't remember exactly what happened in the previous book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 For that, there is this http://www.tor.com/features/series/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I have been using Malazan Wikia, not the most in-depth but serves as a good overview. I finished the book last night, which is good as its due back in the library today. I will write a full review soon, but simple to say I enjoyed it and will be reading more. The last 100 pages flew by in an action-packed whirl. At the moment I would give it an 8/10 but it is likely that would increase on a re-read as I may understand what's happening! I'd say Sorry/Apsalar was my favourite character followed close by Crokus and Anomander Rake. Whikeyjack was also great but I thought him and the bridgeburners were a bit underused in GotM, I'm guessing we will see more of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 I have been using Malazan Wikia, not the most in-depth but serves as a good overview. The advantage you might find with the Tor re-read is that it's being written by two people: one who's read the series before, and one who hasn't. So there are no spoilers (although I'd advise avoiding the comments from the public). I finished the book last night, which is good as its due back in the library today. I will write a full review soon, but simple to say I enjoyed it and will be reading more. The last 100 pages flew by in an action-packed whirl. Well done for getting it finished in time The end of GotM is actually small scale compared to the rest of the books. He's great at juggling multiple plot threads and then bringing them together in a 'convergence' for a big finish to each book. Power is attracted to power, etc etc. There's very little in the way of cliffhanger endings At the moment I would give it an 8/10 but it is likely that would increase on a re-read as I may understand what's happening! You could always ask about stuff Not saying I know all the answers, but I hope we'll be discussing the books more in these threads rather than through reviews, otherwise having these threads seems a bit of a waste 8/10 seems about right to me, especially when compared with what's to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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