The English Counties Challenge

[frankie]

Willoyd, I would really recommend you read the book. It's just terrific! Whereas one can't make any promises for the TV series... Sure it'll be good, too, though! 

[willoyd]

Thanks all.  I'll almost certainly read beforehand.  I should have mentioned that I did read it many, many years ago as a teenager, and have a vague memory of how it works, but even so, that's the way round that my instincts say to go too. 

[willoyd]

Can anybody point me to any discussion we had on this board of the American States reading challenge  that kicked off putting the English Counties Challenge?  I know Julie found a link (to BusinessInsider) which she posted on her book blog thread (in 2013), but I seem to recall that there was more talk around it than the few posts I can find there, and that other books were mentioned that could replace some of those on that list.  Any help gratefully received!

 

BTW, I read and enjoyed And Then There Were None, which did take me slightly by surprise (clever!), even if I had read it some years ago (under a rather different name that's no longer acceptable!). I've got the TV episodes recorded, so must now sit down and watch them.

Edited January 17, 2016 by willoyd

[Janet]

Would this be what you mean, in Kay's 2013 blog? 

 

Edit: Hmm, maybe not - there's only a bit of discussion there.

 

Edit again:  I think there's more on the page before I linked above. 

 

Also, this...

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/most-famous-book-set-in-every-state-map-2013-10?r=US&IR=T

Edited January 17, 2016 by Janet

[chesilbeach]

Julie started a thread for it ... Most Famous Authors / Books From Every State Challenge - Julie.

 

Edit: I think the conversation picked up again on further on in Julie's book thread, so might be worth checking the next few pages after she first posted in this post.

 

Edit2: There's also a bit of a discussion in poppyshake's book thread starting in this post

[willoyd]

Thank you both.  That's helped me track things down - and sort out my own list based heavily on this one.  Just thought it about time that I started to tackle a bit more American lit.  As if I haven't enough already!!

[Janet]

Is there an alternative I could read for City of London?   I'm trying to read only new books for this challenge (the only exception so far being Winnie The Pooh!).  I was going to sneak in Mrs Dalloway, but I don't think Westminster comes under City of London, does it?  Similarly, I'm reading a Muriel Spark book, but I don't think Kensington comes under city either?

 

I re-read A Christmas Carol every December, so I can count it, but if I can find an alternative (that I like the sound of, and that is reasonably well-known) then that would be good.

 

Thanks in advance. 

[chaliepud]

Do they have to be classics Janet?

[chaliepud]

If not, this may help... http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/6653.Books_Set_in_London

 

I would also add Blackout by Connie Willis (though you would have to be prepared to read the sequel, All Clear. Her Fearful Symmetry was also a good read, by Audrey Niffenegger, I preferred it to The Time Traveller's Wife.

[Janet]

No, it doesn't have to be a classic.    That list doesn't seem to differentiate between City of London and Greater London, but I'll see if a map will help when I suss out in which location they're set.  Thank you. 

[willoyd]

I think I remember there being quite a challenge finding books actually set in the City.  There are obviously any number of Dickens; Great Expectations, Bleak House and Dombey and Son jump to mind, although not all the others have settings in the City itself.  Trollope's The Way We Live Now has a solid base in the City.  A few other random books, pretty light, I've enjoyed that feature the City:  Rumpole of the Bailey (Mortimer), London Bridges (Jane Stevenson), Mary Poppins (Travers), At the Sign of the Sugared Plum (Hooper).  Susanna Gregory (Thomas Chaloner) and CJ Sansom (Shardlake) have also set some of their books in the City. Edited December 28, 2016 by willoyd

[Janet]

Thanks, Willoyd - that's a very useful list. I've read the Sugared Plum one. I have Mary Poppins so that's a good option. I will have a look at the other suggestions.

[Madeleine]

I was going to suggest C J Sansom as well, as he mentions the City quite a lot.

 

Edited to say that Wikipedia shows some maps of the City of London, a bit small but might be helpful if you want to get a better idea of how much the City coveres.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Madeleine

[Janet]

I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone for the help. 

 

I've started reading Great Expectations for City of London for this challenge today but have added a few of the suggested titles to my wish list. 

[Madeleine]

I might have a go at the English Counties Challenge, not sure how many I'll get to "visit" though!  Some counties seem to be more popular than others for settings.

[willoyd]

I might have a go at the English Counties Challenge, not sure how many I'll get to "visit" though!  Some counties seem to be more popular than others for settings.

I think most of those who are doing it have commented that they've really enjoyed the list. I've certainly found that there's a much higher proportion of 5 and 6 star reads in this challenge than I usually get. As challenges go (and I generally find them enjoyable), this has proved one of the most rewarding I've done.

Edited December 22, 2016 by willoyd

[Madeleine]

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2013 at 9:58 PM, willoyd said:

Thanks for this list Will!  I agree local county boundaries have changed a lot, and indeed some have changed again quite recently, so I'll go with this list for now.  Not sure if I'll get round to any from Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or the Irish Republic, but I've kept those lists just in case!

This list of 91 counties (with the possibility of adding Westmoreland and Huntingdonshire) would therefore look like this:

 

England (48 counties)

Bedfordshire

Berkshire

Bristol

Buckinghamshire

Cambridgeshire - Murder at the Fitzwilliam by Jim Eldridge

Cheshire

City of London - Ashes of London by Andrew Taylor

Cornwall (including Isles of Scilly) - Over Sea, Under Stone by Susan Cooper

Cumbria

Derbyshire

Devon - The Riviera Express by T P Fielden

Dorset - The Return of the Native by Thomas Hardy

County Durham

East Sussex - The Stranger Diaries by Elly Griffiths

Essex - The Essex Serpent by Sarah Perry

Gloucestershire

Greater London (excluding the City of London - The Silkworm by Robert Galbraith

Greater Manchester

Hampshire

Herefordshire

Hertfordshire

Isle of Wight - The Bed that I Made by Lucie Whitehouse

Kent - The House on Vesper Sands by Paraic O'Donnell

Lancashire

Leicestershire

Lincolnshire (including North Lincolnshire. and North East Lincolnshire

Merseyside

Norfolk - The Stone Circle by Elly Griffiths

North Yorkshire (including Middlesbrough, Redcar and Cleveland, York, and Stockton-on-Tees south of the River Tees) - Some Veil Did Fall by Kirsty Ferry (set mainly in Whitby)

Northamptonshire

Northumberland  - Holy Island by L J Ross

Nottinghamshire

Oxfordshire

Rutland

Shropshire

Somerset - Time's Legacy by Barbara Erskine

Staffordshire

Suffolk - River of Destiny by Barbara Erskine

Surrey

Tyne and Wear

Warwickshire

West Midlands

West Sussex

East Riding of Yorkshire (including Kingston-upon-Hull)

South Yorkshire

West Yorkshire

Wiltshire

Worcestershire

 

Wales (8 counties)

Clwyd

Dyfed

South Glamorgan

Mid Glamorgan

West Glamorgan

Gwent

Gwynedd

Powys

 

Scotland (35 counties)

Aberdeen

Aberdeenshire

Angus

Argyll and Bute

Ayrshire and Arran - The Legacy of Elizabeth Pringle by  Kirsty Wark

Banffshire

Berwickshire

Caithness

Clackmannanshire

Dumfries

Dunbartonshire

Dundee

East Lothian

Edinburgh

Fife

Glasgow

Inverness

Kincardineshire

Lanarkshire

Midlothian

Moray

Nairn

Orkney

Perth and Kinross

Renfrewshire

Ross and Cromarty

Roxburgh, Ettrick and Lauderdale

Shetland - Cold Earth by Ann Cleeves

Stirling and Falkirk

Sutherland

The Stewartry of Kirkcudbright

Tweeddale

West Lothian

Western Isles - The Black House by Peter May

Wigtown

 

Northern Ireland

Antrim

Armagh

Down

Fermanagh

Londonderry/Derry

Tyrone

Edited January 22, 2020 by Madeleine

[Madeleine]

I didn't realise that the list of books was "set", although I've already read most of the classics - Austen, Bronte, Hardy and Jamaica Inn - so I was actually planning on reading books from my own tbr pile if no one minds?  Just another way of whittling it down a tiny bit!

[Janet]

We're trying to read the same books where possible, but I've chosen not to reread some of them and have selected my own.    I just started a thread called 'City of London [alternative] - Great Expectations by Charles Dickens' because I've read the original choice so many times.

 

I have quite a few counties on my list where I'm going to select an alternative, so please feel free to do the same.  

[chesilbeach]

As Janet said, we were trying to find the most famous books for each county to read originally, but I think all of us have deviated from the full list for at least one county, so it's fine if you want to go off script and make the challenge your own.  If you would like some inspiration on counties where you've already read the main book, if you look in the individual county threads in the challenge forum, you'll see that there are some alternatives listed in some of them, which we had some discussion about when we first came up with the final list.

[Madeleine]

Thanks Claire and Janet - I haven't read either of the George Eliot books so may stick with those, and will probably pick another du Maurier for Cornwall, and if I get stuck at least I've got a suggested title!

[willoyd]

Thanks Claire and Janet - I haven't read either of the George Eliot books so may stick with those, and will probably pick another du Maurier for Cornwall, and if I get stuck at least I've got a suggested title!

 

Can I still recommend the list that grew out of those discussions?  Several of those doing the challenge (including me!) have found that the list has thrown up a range of excellent books that we might not have otherwise got around to reading.  Whilst the list has obviously got a higher than average proportion of classics on it - inevitable when one of the main criteria was that the book should be the most famous book set in that county - it has landed up with a really good range of different books too. It's definitely worth exploring.

 

Like others, I have substituted a few books with alternatives.  I've done that mainly when there has been a book listed which I've read before and, for one reason or another, don't want to reread.  There was just one where I disagreed with the group choice (I chose Fanny Burney's Evelina for Bristol), but even there I'll land up reading The Misses Mallet one day.  Otherwise, there have been plenty of books which I've been happy to reread.

Edited January 7, 2017 by willoyd

[willoyd]

The English Counties Challenge 2013-2017

(Copied across from my personal challenge thread)

 

Having just finished the challenge, I thought I might include a wrap up review here.  Above all else, I can thoroughly recommend the challenge to anybody looking for some good (great!) reads well steeped in English literature and an English setting!

 

Perhaps the most distinctive and pleasurable feature of the challenge has been the variety of books and authors: 48 books, only 5 authors duplicated (Jane Austen, HE Bates, Charles Dickens, George Eliot, Elizabeth Gaskell), and a huge variety of styles and genres, including serious classics, comedy, satire, science fiction, fantasy/horror, saga, crime, adventure, thriller, fictionalised autobiography, and children's novels.   I chose the following as alternative books from the list, mainly because I'd previously read the main books and didn't want to read them again; all four stood up well (and in a couple of cases, better than the original IMO):

 

Bristol:  Evelina (Fanney Burney) instead of The Misses Mallett (EH Young)

Greater London: Mrs Dalloway (Virginia Woolf) instead of The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes (Arthur Conan Doyle)

Hertfordshire: Howards End (EM Forster) instead of Pride and Prejudice (Jane Austen)

Nottinghamshire: Sons and Lovers (DH Lawrence) instead of Lady Chatterley's Lover (DH Lawrence)

 

Generally, I've really enjoyed the list, with 50% rating 5 or 6 stars, way above my normal reading (15%):

 

6-stars:    9

5-stars:  15

4-stars:    7

3-stars:  12

2-stars:    4

1-star:      1

 

So, of all this great reading, which was one was the best?  It's a tough call, but one does just about stand out, and it's Middlemarch. I last read this as a teenager when studying it for A-levels, and didn't have overwhelmingly great memories of it, but maybe Virginia Woolf was right, and I have since grown-up!   Two others made the short list and came close:   Emma was another not read since A-level, but had me totally in its thrall (although Jane got it wrong, in that I loved Emma herself!), whilst South Riding, was one of the great surprises of the list, blowing me away with its passionate story of provincial East Yorkshire life.  Far From the Madding Crowd and Mrs Dalloway only just missed out on the short list.

 

Duffer of the challenge without a doubt in my mind was The Stars Look Down which was, unfortunately, also one of the longest.  It may just have dated, but it proved thoroughly tedious and cliched, without even the redemption of a satisfying ending.  I don't think I'll be reading any more Cronin.  Others on the short list were The Well of Loneliness and My Uncle Silas, the first never seeming to rise out of its slough of despond, the latter so over-ripe and bilious that I only just managed to survive to the end of what was, fortunately, one of the shortest books on the list. I can't say I'm a fan of HE Bates humour. 

 

Most pleasant surprise was Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit which was a far funnier and more entertaining book that I had even vaguely anticipated from reviews; The Day of the Triffids was another that proved much more rewarding than expected, even if probably a contender for the least relevant to its county! I've since gone on to enjoy other Wyndham novels with almost equal relish. As already commented, South Riding completely blew me away too.

 

Biggest disappointment had to be Cider with Rosie.  I had anticipated a classic, I actually encountered a rather repetitive, monotonous tome, rather lacking in credibility in the clarity of early memory, that dragged far more than its slim size suggested.

 

Several books were rereads, and it was interesting to find that I regraded quite a few of them:

A Christmas Carol, Swallows and Amazons, Mansfield Park, Middlemarch, Emma all moved up (mostly to 6-stars)

Cranford, Watership Down, Dracula, The Pursuit of Love didn't live up to previous ratings and were all moved down at least one grade.

I was relieved that all the children's books rereads at least matched my previous feelings about them, or were even better! They were all certainly worthy of their places on the list.

 

Books that were particularly successful in characterising their county included, for me:

The Dark is Rising, The Nine Tailors, A Christmas Carol, Jamaica Inn, Swallows and Amazons, The Year of Wonders, Far From The Madding Crowd, South Riding, Mrs Dalloway, North and South, On The Black Hill, The Darling Buds of May, Sons and Lovers, Lorna Doone, The Old Wives' Tale, Emma, Tom Brown's Schooldays, Middlemarch, Cold Comfort Farm, Wuthering Heights, Barchester Towers.  Not a bad list!  Others came close, but these for me were the ones fully steeped in their county setting.

 

In hindsight, I think the list is pretty much as good as it can be.  The main thoughts I offer are:

 

-  Evelina was an excellent book for Bristol, and it and its author remain for me incontestably better known (it's currently published by both Oxford World Classics and Penguin) than The Misses Mallett. It should be at least added as an alternative choice.

 

-  I would remove The Maid of Buttermere as one of the Cumbria books; it isn't anywhere near as well known as Swallows and Amazons and S&A is a great representative book (I say this knowing that it was only my arguing that led to TMOB being included)

 

-  The Isle of Wight remains slightly problematic.  The Day of the Triffids is a great book, but it is really at no time actually set on the Isle of Wight.  The other books suggested to date aren't that well known either.  What about Moonfleet?  It has an episode set on the island which, admittedly, is not a major part of the book (although an important scene), but is no less of a section than, say, Whitby in Dracula. (I say this a bit reluctantly as I love TDOTT and am slightly ambivalent about Moonfleet, but it's a pretty well known children's classic, and a typically riproaring Victorian adventure).

 

- I'm particularly glad I read Sons and Lovers rather than Lady Chatterley's Lover, as it is a significantly better book IMO, more redolent of Nottinghamshire (and Nottingham), and no less famous, if less notorious.

 

-  It may be worth keeping an eye on books coming through - The Essex Serpent for instance could be an excellent book at some stage for that county.  This could benefit one or two of the counties less well served - not least the North East, where those for Northumberland and Tyne & Wear can surely be improved on at some stage? Isn't it odd how some parts of the country seem to produce a whole host of great books, whilst others struggle to produce even one of any real note?

 

But, overall, a great challenge that has added so much to my reading over the past three and a half years, given me several new authors to explore further, got me to read a few books I wouldn't otherwise have done but have been glad to do so(!) and helped me rediscover authors or books that I'd previously read but maybe not fully appreciated at the time.  As I said at the top, thoroughly recommended!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by willoyd

[Janet]

Some interesting stats there, @willoyd   I have loved some of those that you have disliked but have also loved some of those that you loved.  Well done for completing the challenge.  I'm so happy that you changed your opinion of A Christmas Carol as a result of this challenge.      I've enjoyed reading your reviews (only the ones of those books I have read - I still have 13 to go). 

[Madeleine]

I've put the Essex Serpent as my Essex book, as there aren't that many books set there unless they're about witches or gangsters!  So it made a nice change to read about something different for once.