Signor Finzione Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 ^^ I'll let SF say whether he wants his thread to go down that road or not. It would be helpful if you could give some examples, though. By all means, continue. It's a good point - I wonder if much of the debate has been as a result of it being written in first person? <<ponders>> I've wondered this myself. I suppose a lot of books written in first person (like *shudder* Twilight, and *double shudder* 50 Shades) deliberately make their main character someone who the reader can transfer their own personality onto and thus imagine themselves as participating in the story. Not so with Jorg Ancrath, I should imagine . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I've wondered this myself. I suppose a lot of books written in first person (like *shudder* Twilight, and *double shudder* 50 Shades) deliberately make their main character someone who the reader can transfer their own personality onto and thus imagine themselves as participating in the story. Not so with Jorg Ancrath, I should imagine . . . Did you ever watch the tv show 'The Shield'? I get the feeling, from the little I've read so far, that Mark Lawrence is attempting to do something similar with these books as Shawn Ryan did with that show, in that he took a bunch of pretty detestable characters, got you inside their heads, made you like them and even root for them, and then turned round, held up a mirror and made you question everything you'd thought about them. I'm probably wrong, but it would be pretty cool if that were the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimes Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 LOL you want me to find examples of books I don't have and beyond saying, nope I don't want to read this, don't pay any attention to! . I will go and think, maybe something will float up from the depths of my brain . I have read quit a few good books that were write in the first person. Umm the tigers wife is a example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 LOL you want me to find examples of books I don't have and beyond saying, nope I don't want to read this, don't pay any attention to! If you haven't read them how do you know they lack depth? I'm wondering if we're talking at crossed purposes. Neither I nor SF are talking about the so-called 'dark fantasy' stuff, or 'paranormal romance' if you like, vampires and all that sub-genre. We're talking about fantasy that is dark, i.e. gritty, which is quite a different thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimes Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) I look through a book and read a few pages here and there so that I get a good feel about what the book is like before saying yay it nay to buying it, every book gets a fair chance! I know what kind of books you are talking about . I still think that most modern fantasy lacks that something that I am looking for. Ok thought of a book that I think is awful, The Night Circus. I didn't even read half of the book, it was lacking in everything...oh and that other one...umm. Ai! I can't remember but it was just as bad. sorry bad books don't stick in my head very well, I can remember that it was bad but not why! LOL Edited September 10, 2013 by Vimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I look through a book and read a few pages here and there so that I get a good feel about what the book is like before saying yay it nay to buying it, every book gets a fair chance! I know what kind of books you are talking about . I still think that most modern fantasy lacks that something that I am looking for. Fair enough. It would be a pretty boring world if we all liked the same things For what it's worth I wasn't implying that it's a case of old fantasy versus new fantasy. I used to love old fantasy, and I still have fond memories of David Eddings' books, and LotR etc, it's just my tastes have changed in recent years Out of interest, have you tried Robin Hobb or Blake Charlton? Or Brandon Sanderson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Did you ever watch the tv show 'The Shield'? I get the feeling, from the little I've read so far, that Mark Lawrence is attempting to do something similar with these books as Shawn Ryan did with that show, in that he took a bunch of pretty detestable characters, got you inside their heads, made you like them and even root for them, and then turned round, held up a mirror and made you question everything you'd thought about them. I'm probably wrong, but it would be pretty cool if that were the case. I've never heard of 'The Shield', but I agree that it would be interesting if that's what he's trying to accomplish. I think he presents his characters as a product of their environment; given how that environment supposedly came about, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some intentional moralising going on there. I also think he's maybe just having fun writing protagonists that are actual villains and not just your typical 'anti-heroes'. Maybe we're just thinking too hard about this. I'm not sure whether we're all talking about the same kind of fantasy . . . When I think 'new' fantasy, I think books like Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence, The Name of the Wind by Pat Rothfuss (which I'm really enjoying at the moment), Promise of Blood by Brian McClellan (which is awesome), etc. Maybe the reason older fantasy seems deeper is that it's had years of prequels, sequels and all sorts of expansions; perhaps the newer stuff just needs a decade or so to mature/circulate. Plus, we all change as we get older! I used to think The Hobbit was amazing, but read it recently after many years and was really disappointed. On a side note: I'm actually allergic to 'dark fantasy'/'paranormal romance'. My eyes are watering now just thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsa Orlong Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) On a side note: I'm actually allergic to 'dark fantasy'/'paranormal romance'. My eyes are watering now just thinking about it. Must be tears of joy ETA: You should give The Shield a try Edited September 10, 2013 by Karsa Orlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimes Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Fair enough. It would be a pretty boring world if we all liked the same things For what it's worth I wasn't implying that it's a case of old fantasy versus new fantasy. I used to love old fantasy, and I still have fond memories of David Eddings' books, and LotR etc, it's just my tastes have changed in recent years Out of interest, have you tried Robin Hobb or Blake Charlton? Or Brandon Sanderson? It is also what makes interesting conversations about books, there would be nothing to talk about if everyone liked/thought the same things about everything . I didn't think it was at all a case of new or old, I do in fact read some of the "new" when it appeals, yes I have read most of Robin Hobb's books but I don't think I have heard of Blake Charlton Or Brandon Sanderson. what have they written? Maybe a title will jog my memory! Have you read any of Mercedes Lackey's Bedlam bard or Sarrated Edge series? The Sarrated Edge ones are good, read the one a while ago a.d the rest are on my TBD list, elves and racing cars; what more could one want out of a book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimes Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I'm not sure whether we're all talking about the same kind of fantasy . . . When I think 'new' fantasy, I think books like Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence, The Name of the Wind by Pat Rothfuss (which I'm really enjoying at the moment), Promise of Blood by Brian McClellan (which is awesome), etc. Maybe the reason older fantasy seems deeper is that it's had years of prequels, sequels and all sorts of expansions; perhaps the newer stuff just needs a decade or so to mature/circulate. Plus, we all change as we get older! I used to think The Hobbit was amazing, but read it recently after many years and was really disappointed. On a side note: I'm actually allergic to 'dark fantasy'/'paranormal romance'. My eyes are watering now just thinking about it. I totally sympathize with you, I tend to orun the other way when I see one! :ROFL: You are possibly right about the newer fantasy just needing time. But I dunno... Speaking if the hobbit, have you seen the movie? I just thought it was wonderful! The way he is filling out the story with all of the history from the appendix. And the new way he filmed it was genius. It gave the movie a depth to it that was a treat to the eyes. (and yes I have watched it more than once, I confess!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 I totally sympathize with you, I tend to orun the other way when I see one! :ROFL: You are possibly right about the newer fantasy just needing time. But I dunno... Speaking if the hobbit, have you seen the movie? I just thought it was wonderful! The way he is filling out the story with all of the history from the appendix. And the new way he filmed it was genius. It gave the movie a depth to it that was a treat to the eyes. (and yes I have watched it more than once, I confess!) I do really like the film version! I wasn't sure when I first heard about it - I thought, how on earth can they stretch that to 3 films?! But yeah, I actually love what they're doing with the material from the appendix. And I've seen it so many times that I know a lot of the lines off by heart. I'm still a bit skeptical about how they're going to fill out the next two though, as they put quite a lot of stuff into the first one. But hey, only 3 months or so until we get to see the second one! (Also, my kitties are named Fili and Kili. Even though they're girls. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimes Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) LOL cute! I have to say they are my two favorites of all of the dwarfs. They are like two peas in a pod, I loved how the director portrayed them in the movie. Having skimmed through the Appendix, I am sure that there is still plenty that he can use to fill in the other two movies. What I really want to know is, what dose Smaug look like? Edited September 10, 2013 by Vimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 They are my favourites too - I love how the director makes it seem like they've never been apart, like the bit when they get separated by the stone giants and look so lost and devastated. I saw the trailer for the next film a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember if it showed Smaug, but it did show some stuff I'm looking forward to seeing: Beorn's house, Mirkwood, the barrels, Lake Town. I'm guessing the next film will focus on all of this and Smaug . . . which doesn't leave a lot of the original book material for the third one (aside from the battle of 5 armies). I don't have a problem with them filling in with stuff from the appendix, but I wonder what more casual readers will think of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimes Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I don't know, it would depend on how whats-his-face structures the next one I guess... I would love to know if he will put the spiders that almost eat the dwarfs in or leave them out. I have to say that the scene with the trolls/thingymajigs in the beginning and the spiders later on in the book are my two favorite parts of the book . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 I'm really looking forward to the spiders, especially since Shelob is so scary in LotR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimes Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Oh yes! First time I saw Shelob, it almost made me a little wary of spiders for a day it two Edited September 12, 2013 by Vimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblybear Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Hello Signor. Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 @Vimes: I have a massive fear of spiders anyway! I think it's something like morbid curiosity that makes me like watching films about them. @bobblybear: Thank you for the welcome! There are so many cute/funky usernames on this site, yours being one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblybear Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Thanks Signor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Love how a quick welcome quickly becomes a list of recommendations as soon as fantasy is mentioned! My two cents... 1. Welcome. 2. The Lies of Locke Lamora - Scott Lynch (Everyone should read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 25, 2013 Author Share Posted September 25, 2013 Love how a quick welcome quickly becomes a list of recommendations as soon as fantasy is mentioned! My two cents... 1. Welcome. 2. The Lies of Locke Lamora - Scott Lynch (Everyone should read) 1. Thanks! 2. I read both Lynch books years ago and am hoping to re-read them before next month's release of Republic of Thieves. (I agree, everyone should read Lies). Next recommendation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 (edited) Would also recommend Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson, great magic system. and Tales of the Ketty Jay by Chris Wooding, brilliant Steampunk/SF/fantasy series. The fourth book has just been released/ Edited September 26, 2013 by Timstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 Would also recommend Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson, great magic system. and Tales of the Ketty Jay by Chris Wooding, brilliant Steampunk/SF/fantasy series. The fourth book has just been released/ I have the Ketty Jay books on my Amazon wishlist! I've been eyeing them up for a while after seeing Ace of Skulls (?) recommended to me and will probably get them at Christmas time. The Rithmatist by Sanderson is on my TBR; will probably give that a go, and then if I like it I'll try Mistborn. Thanks a lot for the recommendations! So much fantasy, so little time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timstar Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I have the Ketty Jay books on my Amazon wishlist! I've been eyeing them up for a while after seeing Ace of Skulls (?) recommended to me and will probably get them at Christmas time. I have written reviews for the first two on my BCF blog, absolutely loved the second one, one of my favourite books this year. The Rithmatist by Sanderson is on my TBR; will probably give that a go, and then if I like it I'll try Mistborn. I've not read that, just bare in mind that it is a YA novel. Although Mistborn isn't particularly dark or gritty it isn't aimed at younger audiences. Thanks a lot for the recommendations! So much fantasy, so little time. Tell me about it! Even more since you came along!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signor Finzione Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 I have written reviews for the first two on my BCF blog, absolutely loved the second one, one of my favourite books this year. I'll be sure to give them a read soon! I like to read good reviews of a book just before I read it - I find it whets the appetite. I've not read that, just bare in mind that it is a YA novel. Although Mistborn isn't particularly dark or gritty it isn't aimed at younger audiences. Hmm, thanks for the warning. At least it won't take me too long to read . . . Tell me about it! Even more since you came along!! Yeah, it's a bit of an obsession. I don't have anyone to talk to about it in real life so this is my only outlet . . . which is why I'm all "you NEED to read this so we can talk about it!" at every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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